White House aide “Scooter” Libby took a direct hit, as expected, in Friday’s indictments in the Plame affair.
But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s announcement that he would keep sealed any investigative information not resulting in criminal charges left behind a lot of frustration and a host of unanswered questions in this tangled case.
For instance, we still don’t know which senior White House officials leaked Valerie Plame’s name to columnist Bob Novak, who originally revealed Plame’s identity in print.
Still unclear, too, is Vice President Dick Cheney’s role in encouraging or aiding Libby’s efforts to discredit Joe Wilson and his wife.
We did learn from Fitzgerald that Plame’s undercover status was in effect (contrary to some GOP assertions) and “not widely known” at the time of her outing. So much for that excuse.
What about Karl Rove? The investigation is “not over,” said Fitzgerald. What does that mean? Where is this headed, and for how long?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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The press has been portraying Bush’s problems as being acute. A look at his approval ratings since their high post- 9/11, however, to me at least, point to an administration that has been in slow, steady, consistent decline since 2001. I am linking to a graph of Bush’s approval ratings since the start of his presidency. Except for a few bump ups – start of the war, capture of Saddam, and right before the election – his approval has been gradually trending downward for some time. The fact that he was re-elected with a 50% approval rating speaks to the genious of Karl Rove (love him, or hate him).I do wonder if Bush is on course to set the all time lowest approval ratings record that will never be broken, i.e. a zero.
Here’s the link:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2005/10/29/GR2005102901606.html
Steven, at this rate,Bush will assure his place in history. As Galahad says, “Worst President Ever”.
Here’s an article I found written by an attorney who’s a former SEC official, that offers a revealing read on Fitzgerald’s game plan, and why he stopped so short and has been so cagey. I will include two paragraphs, and link to the rest:
********************************
“Voila! All of the elements, at least of the Espionage Act (if not the Intelligence Identities Protection Act), have been made out in the indictment. So, why go to all the trouble of setting up the factual predicates for violations of the classified information statutes in the indictment (especially when he didn’t have to) and then stop short of charging them? The explanation he gave during his press conference (i.e., that he was balancing the interests of the First Amendment with the wisdom of charging the crime) does’t fly. Subpoenaing reporters, sending one to jail and threatening to do the same to another one demonstrate, I suggest, his less-than-overarching concern about the First Amendment. And, his expressed concern that the U.S. statute governing classified information not become subject to the loose application which has characterized its British analog (i.e., the “Official Secrets Act”) also rings hollow, especially given the fact that he trumpeted, loud and long, during his press conference the serious violations of national security the conduct in this case appears to have constituted.”
“No, the real reason to lay out as much factual detail as he did was for Fitz to show the world (and in particular, the world within the White House) that he has the goods, and that he won’t hesitate to drop the dime on some additional malefactors, particularly, Cheney. Let’s face it: Libby is only the consigliere to Cheney’s don. Even though the threat of spending 30 years in the pokey will be a powerful incentive for Libby to cut some kind of deal that might include turning on his boss, the possibility of the additional charges of revealing classified information, particularly against Cheney, is even more powerful since, presumably, Cheney does’t appear to be at risk of a truth-telling-related indictment.”
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/10/29/20254/872
Randy Randy Randy
Can you read through that cloud of bias of yours? Here’s the link again.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340.html
Let me quote.”Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified.”
Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer and that fact was classified. Randy show me where it says “that Plame’s undercover status was in effect”.
I don’t know this for a fact but I’ll bet you a case of Bud that every CIA officers status is classified, even if they walk in and out of the front door of the headquarters at Langley where every intelligence agency in the world can see them.
CF
Senator Pat Leahy has illegally released more classified information to the public than Scooter Libby has. And the information he released was potentially far more damaging to our counry. Why wasn’t he prosecuted for it.
I’m not excusing Libby’s actions, just trying to point out the grotesque double standard that exists with the Washington media.
I had no sooner shut down the computer. When Trent Lott on Fox news said that, “Dick Chenny is the best vice President this country ever had.”. I wonder if he also thinks G.W. Bush is brilliant?
Heckler, the lying and weasleing just never stops for you, does it? There was a time when I just thought you were just misinformed. But now, even though republican lies and spin have been exposed, you’re still trying to sell the same old lies and misinformation.
“I don’t know this for a fact but I’ll bet you a case of Bud that every CIA officers status is classified,”
If this were the case, does it justify “outing” a CIA agent? What’s your point?
“Senator Pat Leahy has illegally released more classified information to the public than Scooter Libby has.”"Why wasn’t he prosecuted for it.”
Why wasn’t he prosecuted for it? Republicans are in charge. They could have brought charges if they thought there was a reason. Maybe you don’t have your facts straight. Still, you sound like a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar. “Well he did it too! Waaah!”
“show me where it says “that Plame’s undercover status was in effect”.
The CIA says that Plame’s status as undercover WAS in effect. Karl Rove testified before the grand jury that he knew Joe Wilson’s wife was an undercover CIA agent when he talked with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper in July 2003.
Heckler, what part of this don’t you get?
“I’m not excusing Libby’s actions”
Oh really? Sure sounds like you are.
I’ve asked you this before, but I know you’re a little slow, so I’ll ask again.
Question:Is it ok to “out” a CIA operative?Yes or No?
XXX
Show me where it says that she had undercover status in 2003.Cite a source other than MoveON.org.How could she truly be undercover when she worked at CIA headquarters openly? Does that even make sense?
No it’s not OK to “out” a CIA operative.
Some one died because of one of Leahys leaks and he’s still a Senator. Something smells bad here.
Dear XXX,
What do you mean by “out”? What is yoiur definition of a CIA operative? Obviously Scooter didn’t out a CIA operative, nor did anyone else in the administration, NO ONE WAS CHARGED WITH THAT!
Heckler,”July 22, 2003: (Newsday) Washington – The identity of an undercover CIA officer whose husband started the Iraq uranium intelligence controversy has been publicly revealed by a conservative Washington columnist citing “two senior administration officials.”
Intelligence officials confirmed to Newsday yesterday that Valerie Plame, wife of retired Ambassador Joseph Wilson, works at the agency on weapons of mass destruction issues in an undercover capacity – at least she was undercover until last week when she was named by columnist Robert Novak.http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4190.htm
“Plame, the wife of former ambassador and Bush critic Joseph Wilson, was a member of a small elite-within-an-elite, a CIA employee operating under “nonofficial cover,” in her case as an energy analyst, with little or no protection from the U.S. government if she got caught.”http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/headlines03/1011-01.htm
“Lawyers involved in the case, who described the notes to The New York Times, said they showed that Mr. Cheney knew that Ms. Wilson worked at the C.I.A. more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status was disclosed in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak on July 14, 2003.” (Note the references to her undercover status)http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/25/politics/25leak.html
“The lawyers, who described the notes to the Times, said they showed Mr Cheney knew Ms Plame worked for the CIA more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status disclosed in a syndicated column by journalist Robert Novak on July 14, 2003.” (Again, that reference to her “undercover Status”)http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100007243&docId=l:321587811&start=10
“The special counsel’s office said Plame’s CIA employment was classified and that her connection to the CIA “was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community” prior to Novak’s column.”http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102800818_2.html
Now before you start your usual spin, remember the point of these links is to show that Plame was indeed “undercover”, “covert”, “classified”.
Now show me some backup that proves Leahy caused someone to die.
esod,”What do you mean by “out”?
What part of “out” don’t you understand? That’s a stupid question.
“What is yoiur definition of a CIA operative?”
Doesn’t matter what my definition is, so I’ll go with the CIA definition. The CIA (and Novack for that matter) refer to Plame as an Operative. But you seem to know more about the status of CIA operatives than the CIA does.
“Obviously Scooter didn’t out a CIA operative”.
Obviously?” Libby briefed New York Times reporter Judith Miller about Wilson and may then have passed on the tip that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA. Libby added more details in a second meeting with Miller on July 8, 2003, when he told Miller that Wilson’s wife worked at a CIA unit responsible for weapons intelligence and non-proliferation, the Times reported.”http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/102705.html
Did Libby “out” Plame? He sure spent a lot of time talking to Judith Miller about Plame.
“In a news conference in Washington, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald refused to say whether Novak cooperated with the leak probe. In addition, Fitzgerald said that Miller, not Novak, was “the first reporter to be told … [Plame] worked at the CIA,” and that Libby allegedly told her this.”http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/nation/ny-usjour294489221oct29,0,557804.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-print
The allegation is that Libby told Miller about Plame, so your assertion is hardly “obvious”. But Libby hasn’t been convicted yet. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Heckler, you haven’t got a leg to stand on, and everybody knows it. The Administration spin you’re spreading around here is beneath you. It’s one red herring after another designed to distract from the central contention: Scooter Libby lied under oath, repeatedly, in his capacity as a Federal official.
That’s quite an accusation against Patrick Leahy. Heckler, I call bullshit: put up or shut up.
Heckler, I’d say you’ve been called out. Let’s see some proof!
Well done, boys. You slam dunked the right-wing lies and saved me a lot of googling.
Besides, that’s the OLD right-wing spin anyway. The new right-wing spin is “you only got Libby, not Rove, or Cheney or Bush. So, thank God, it’s only a bad day and not the meltdown of the Bush administration.”
This is what David Brooks, the conservative op-ed columnist, repeated over and over again on Lerhner’s “News Hour.”
But as CF’s post rightly pointed out, nothing is stopping Fitzgerald from commissioning a new grand jury for related crimes as new evidence comes to light.
Jail time for high gov’t officials clarifies the mind like nothing else. Look at how all but G. Gordon Liddy sang like canaries once the sentencing started in Watergate.
The war in Iraq continues to kill Americans day by day and drain the treasury. The economy is growing according to the economists, but wages are falling and the equity markets continue to suck. Job growth is slow. The president’s “reform” of Social Security died a well-earned death. Meanwhile, health costs and medicare are eating people alive.
Conservatives forget that we already had a test of their glorious ideals–it was called “The Gilded Age.” That’s why FDR’s “New Deal” was created, remember?
Why they want to go back to the days when Rockefeller had more money than Ft. Knox, I don’t know . . .
Why? The photos of ‘ol “Scooter,” on crutches. What did he do?
Ian obviously must not trust Jesus. After all, He was a Jew.
Galahad,
Indeed. Now that we have an actual ADULT in charge, namely, Fitzgerald, this thing is going to go on for some time. Unless Bush finds some way to fire him, he’s going to push and push and push. When he investigated Gov. Jim Ryan, Ryan’s indictment was #66 on the list.
That’s why the Admin and flacks like Heckler are throwing everything they’ve got: they know it’s only a matter of time before those who should be indicted are indicted. So they attack Fitzgerald using all the dishonest and phony tactics they’ve been perfecting since Watergate.
So, from ‘compassionate conservatism’ to ‘criminal conservatism,’ in a mere five years. I, for one, am not in the least surprised by any of this.
And when it’s all over and done with, the GOP must NEVER be allowed to slink away from its responsibility for having created this unconstitutional monster.
Right you are, CF. Unraveling starts with a single thread. I think this administration is starting to unravel. I look forward to seeing this go on for the rest of Bush’s term. The Whitehouse is a nest of criminals and it needs to be cleaned out. Conservatives need to level with themselves; they’re supporting criminality in government.
Final point: Heckler refers to the accusations that Leahy leaked information about covert operations in 1987, and had to resign his post on the Intelligence Committee.
The statute at issue in the present is the one pertaining to the leaking of names of covert operatives. It stipulates that the leaker must be shown to have acted knowingly, which is very difficult to demonstrate. That’s probably why Fitzgerald put out the perjury indictments now, while continuing to work on the more serious statute.
In the case of Leahy, Heckler hasn’t shown that the relevant statute applies. That is, did Leahy knowingly reveal the name of a U.S. operative? It is unfortunate, but legally immaterial, that an operative of a foreign government (Egypt) reportedly died as a result of the alleged leak. The legally actionable thing would be the leak of an AMERICAN covert operative’s name.
The fact that Leahy is not accused of this means that Heckler’s attempt to argue a double-standard is a red herring, designed to divert attention away from the misdeeds of the current administration.
Oh, and here’s a link from the Wingnuts at Newsmax, whose veracity I typically find lacking. But even on the basis of this supposedly damning ‘evidence,’ Heckler, you don’t have a leg to stand on.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/13/202146.shtml
Ah CF,
‘Perhaps’, ‘maybe’, thats all the extreme left wing of the democrats has! Hopes and maybes!
What happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?
Do you even know the specifics or Scooters indictment?
esod
The Bush administration is fully aware that it has been lying to the American People and keeping its dark goals a secret.Special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald seems to have overlooked the fact that every lie that Bush’s speech contained about Iraq, and the so-called “war on terrorism” came through the dirty hands of, and was approved by, Karl Rove { the mouth that speaks for and the hand that operates the do as your told puppet, George W. Bush }.
“Innocent” does not belong in the same sentence with George W. Bush.
Esod–
Of course he’s technically innocent until proven guilty.
But remember that Novak wrote in his story that outed Plame that TWO senior administration officials told him of Plame’s CIA status.
Scott McClellan, Bush’s official spokesperson, said in an press conference that he had personally discussed this with Rove and Libby and they had said that they were completely innocent.
Comes now Fitzgerald with his indictments, meaning that he, the judge and the grand jury find that the six counts of perjury and obstruction have enough merit to going forward to trial.
Yeah, it doesn’t PROVE he lied to the American public. But on the other hand, Novak said somebody told him. The prosecutor said Libby lied.
Doesn’t look good for Bush, does it?
BTW, Esod, why wasn’t Saddam Hussein “innocent until proven guilty” on the WMD thing? Would’ve saved us a lot of lives wouldn’t have?
Ed and Galahad,
Thanks for replying to esod’s non-critique. Guess that’s what to expect when someone assigns himself the task of defending the indefensible.
NYT
After Upheavals, President Seeks to Steady Course { notice the disguised reference to “stay the course”
And this:”But he appears to see little need for the wholesale housecleaning that previous administrations tried in times of upheaval to rebuild credibility, those officials said.”
As if “Little-Boy-Bush” would be allowed to “clean-house.” { The times actually has the nerve to suggest Bush should “wait” a year for things to cool down }.
Did those “orders” come from Israel?”
As Israel is busy firing artillery shells into Gaza Refugee Camps under the latest distraction, murdering innocent men, women, and children.
Iran’s President was right: “Wiped of the map.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/politics/30leak.html?th&emc=th
XXX CF
Maybe it’s too “common sense” or too obvious but I’m gonna try this one more time. Regardless what Plames status was on paper she was working openly at CIA headquarters for over 5 years previous to her “outing”. She COULD NOT go back to working as a covert agent if she wanted to. She was no longer covert and could not go back to it because every foreign intelligence agency would have her on file as working at CIA headquarters. Is that to difficult to understand?
As to Leahy, he leaked information on how we intercepted some intelligence regarding the Achille Lauro terrorist incident. A covert Egytptian agent involved in gaining that intelligence was killed as a result of that leak. I’m not giving you a link because there are simply so many sources for this info. (a google search on “leaky leahy” brought back 26,300 hits. go find it yourself) Leahy lost his seat on the Senate Intelligence committee over this one. There are many more instances of him leaking classified material to the press.
Democrats are bad about leaking intel information. “Torch” Torricelli leaked the fact that we could find Bin Laden any time we wanted to because the NSA had his satellite phone number. May well have kept us from capturing him.
What’s really sickening and scary is the number of classified leaks by Democrats that have given away vital intelligence capabilities and sources.( Do your own damn searches, I don’t have time for this shit.) And you want these people leading this nation.
Heckler,
A little defensive there? And more to the point, did you read my subsequent post, when I pre-empted your criticisms?
You’re still running red herring arguments. None of what you cited as evidence of Democratic malfeasance has any resemblance to the specific allegations against Scooter Libby. None. By being unable or unwilling to explain how his case parallels the others you’ve mentioned, you basically concede my criticism.
Finally, it isn’t your place, my place, or anyone’s place to decide who is and isn’t a covert operative. End of story. You have neither the credentials nor the experience to say that Valerie Plame’s identity wasn’t classified, whereas those with the relevant credentials and experience DO say it was classified. You and the parties under accusation don’t get to define the terms here, Heckler: that’s a matter for Congress, which wrote the law, and the CIA, which, literally, lives and dies by it.
So the idea of ‘leakers’ ‘leading this nation’ scares you? I’ll tell you what scares me, Heckler: liars like George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, Scooter Libby, Donald Rumsfeld, and Karl Rove, who feel no accountability for their statements. Because when leaders lie, democracy dies.
That’s what scares ME, Heckler.
CF
Are you just stupid or did you fail reading comprehension? I have acknowledged that Plames ID was “classified”. I have acknowledged that if Libby is indeed found guilty of the charges he should recieve just punishment.
I also havent tried to draw any parrallels between Libby’s case and any others. What I have tried to do is point out the double standard that Democrats and Republicans are held to by the media. Democrats have many times given away national security secrets that have damaged our security and in at least one case cost the life of a foreign intelligence agent. And many of these same Senators are still in the Senate, they should be in jail. Contrast their actions(which I notice you didnt try to refute)with that of what happened to Plame, a non-covert covert agent. There is no comparison.
By the way, who has been charged with outing her, I noticed that wasn’t one of the things Libby was charged with.
You and XXX have been drinking to much kool-aid, you can’t be this blind to reality by birth.
Heck–
The reason they couldn’t prosecute Scooter (btw, Scooter looks likes he’s not scooting so well these days) is because he lied so much, they didn’t have evidence to charge him on the outing.
So they charged him with lying.
Not that hard to figure out, IF one is just looking for the truth and not a way to weasel out of stuff.
Heckler,” I have acknowledged that Plames ID was “classified”.
Funny, I can’t find anywhere on this thread where you’ve done that.
“I have acknowledged that if Libby is indeed found guilty of the charges he should recieve just punishment.”
Show me where you’ve said that.
“I also havent tried to draw any parrallels between Libby’s case and any others.”
Heckler, that’s a steaming pile. All through this thread you’ve whined about how Leahy got away with it and Libby didn’t.
So what do you call this statement?:”Contrast their actions(which I notice you didnt try to refute)with that of what happened to Plame, a non-covert covert agent.”
Heck, do you have a clue what “truth” means?
“What I have tried to do is point out the double standard that Democrats and Republicans are held to by the media.”
Can’t deny that although I suspect we dissagree who benefits from it.Heckler, when was the last time the media launched a special prosecutor investigation? If Democrats have done all the treasonous things you suggest, why haven’t the Republicans brought charges? I don’t care what party a traitor is affiliated with; traitors need to be punished. Why hasn’t it happened? I’m not aware that the media has any government powers. How could they stop an investigation of treason?
The MSM is the Boogie-man you conservatives drag out to scare yourselves silly. What a crock!
Nobody has been charged with “outing” Plame.
Another of my simple questions, Heck.
Is it ok to lie to a grand jury?Yes or No?
What will the American public do when they realize the Niger forgeries were created right in our very own defense department?
Is that what all the slamming of Joe Wilson and his wife was about?