What is happening in New Orleans is a national disgrace. I’m talking about the lack of prompt assistance to thousands and thousands of people who desperately need help.
This is a massive failure of emergency planning. The military and FEMA obviously didn’t plan or position themselves for the worst-case scenario, even though everyone knew days in advance that this was the Big One. And now the situation is sliding out of control. Remind anyone else of Iraq?
Thousands stranded at the Convention Center have absolutely no help, and people are dying and being left on the ground. No wonder some of them are looting nearby stores for food and drink.
One man said, "I don’t treat my dog like that," pointing to a dead woman in a wheelchair nearby. "I buried my dog." He added: "You can do everything for other countries but you can’t do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can’t get them down here."
President Bush has promised a rapid federal response to the disaster. For many, he’s already too late.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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165 Comments
The Bush administration has spent the last few years dismantling FEMA and handing out it’s leadership roles to political cronies and we see the result now. This is “compassionate conservativism”. An American city is dying as we watch. Why aren’t there troops all over New Orleans? Why can’t the world’s biggest transit system get food and water to Americans who are dying?Why haven’t all the right-wing faith-based groups mobilized to handle what’s turning into the worst disaster this country has ever seen?This is a crime. And it’s been brought upon us by an administration that has demonstrated repeatedly that it only cares for the richest Americans. While Bush mugs for photo ops, Condi shops for shooes, and Scott McCllan says “those people can get what they need”, people are dying.
Welcome to Republican America.
They only thing that I have to say is that every rescue crew, police officer, national gaurd member, military solider, non-profit relief orginzation worker, every piece of equipment from helicopter to a bottle of water is trying their best to make the relief situation better.
People are working around the clock, the government is helping the best they can, everybody is striving to make it better.
I don’t know exactly what they could have done better. Perhaps planned for it a lot better. Maybe if the Democrats were in power, the relief operation would have been swift and everybody would have been ok with no deaths (I seriously doubt it).
We can only do the best we can do. Yes! I’m pretty sure there are some flaws, that everything can’t run as smoothly and perfectly as they can, that after the fact, we could find holes in the relief operation that could have been taken care of, but nothing can be planned as perfect for any castrophy.
Same goes for every hurricane, tornado, tsunami, volcano eruption, floods, drought, wild fire, insect infestation, or you name it.
But to call this a massive failure of emergency planning is way off the charts. That area planned the best they could, they told everybody to leave the city and provided free mass transportation out of the city or to the superdome. They had planned for the worst, but the worst is unpredictable. Now the relief effort is mobilized and getting people to safety. It would only be considered a massive failure if we failed to do anything at all, and that is clearly not the case.
Aeon! You are pretty pethedic.
Somebody tell me all about the 180.000 people who are Homeland Security. Let’s follow their paychecks and find them. Anybody game?
Joe, your spelling and English usage is unreadable.
What’s pathetic is Right wingnuts like you who will defend this administration no matter how bad they botch things.This disaster is a sad example of how Republicans run things. And as usual, no plan.We got no leadership in Iraq, and we have none in New Orleans.
Be proud, Joe. You’re defending the deaths of Americans.
I do wonder why it’s taking so long to get help to those poor people. Seems like the government is taking their sweet time.
Why is it the government’s job to bail out people who were too stupid to listen to the government’s weather service that told them for several days before the storm to get to high ground. I thought you people believed in survival of the fittest. Why waste time and money on the least fit?
Shame on the government for wasting resources on them when it could be spending our tax money on education, instead.
No! Aeon! It’s called correct use of english. What you can’t understand is the truth.
Sorry to offend you, but I do not find you having anything worthwhile to contribute. You are now in my “troll” category, because it is nothing but a hate fest against our President and our nation.
So from now on, I will be skipping over your posts. Feel free to do the same for my post as well.
Gail, can you comprehendbeing so poor, you don’t own a car? What if you live paycheck to paycheck? It was the end of the month…no money? What if you have no place to go?
“I thought you people believed in survival of the fittest. Why waste time and money on the least fit?”
No Gail, that’s what republicans believe. What do you suggest we do? turn our backs on the people in New Orleans? Let them fend for themselves?
Dearest Aeon,
“We got no leadership in Iraq, and we have none in New Orleans.”
This is a sample of yours, and you badmouth someone else?
Really?
Hank
Gentle people,
Have any of you ever been to New Orleans? Have you ever been in some of the rural areas of Louisianna?
We are talking about one of the most corrupt stae governments in the nation. New Orleans has been run by the democrats for ever. The city government is one of the most corrupt in the nation. They have the most corrupt police force in the nation. It is a city and a state run by democrats. The city of New Orleans is not safe for tourists or for citizens.
The infrastructure that failed has been known to be insuffiecint for over 50 years. Fifty years! Fifty years of democrat leadersip and rule!
The mayor and the governor did not have a plan or the leadership to get these people out of the city. They did not request help from the federal government.
And now, in one of the most disgusting displays of partisan politics you looneys on the left re trying to blame George Bush in particular and republicans in general. For a naural disaster! You people are too stupid to contend with.
Disgusted in Goddard,
Hank
Randy Scholfield quotes the words of a man who, himself, did not lift a finger to help.
“I don’t treat my dog like that,” pointing to a dead woman in a wheelchair nearby. “I buried my dog….”
Why is it always someone else’s job to make things better? It appears to me that this man is just a complainer looking for someone to blame for his bad decisions. I make no claim about his political leanings.
Quoting Gail -”I thought you people believed in survival of the fittest. Why waste time and money on the least fit?Shame on the government for wasting resources on them when it could be spending our tax money on education, instead.”
The above sounds a lot like “victim blame” to me. Rather than arguing about whose at fault with the disaster relief problems, perhaps we should look into how we could help those people. I understand that there is an “house a displaced family” service developing (whether they are in New Orleans or outside of it – most of these people don’t have homes any more). The Red Cross needs money. My kid’s school is collecing bottled water. There are probably countless ways to help. I challenge the resourceful people on this blog to help in any way they can.
Rape and murder under the dome. Shots fired at rescue personnel. Looting on camera and not just food and water. No wonder the rescue efforts are a bit slow! And all I hear on TV from the rescued is complaints. The food wasn’t hot; a nurse didn’t heed my demands for a sick man, nobody buried that dead man — – etc. It is Bushs fault!Bah, typical democrat attitude.
Somebody get Randy his meds.
Gail–
When you’re a 97 year old woman in a wheelchair hooked up to an O2 tank, and the cheap hotel room you’re staying is in the path of an F5 tornado, I hope you remember the compassion you showed to people in the same situation in New Orleans.
“For as you do unto them, it shall be done unto you.”
It seems we have too many resources tied up in a war to help our own people here at home. Foreign governments all over the globe have offered to help with manpower, equipment, and money, but our state department has yet to accept any offers. I wouldn’t have believed it if it hadn’t been on the news this evening. What is wrong with our leadership?What is wrong with some of the people on this blog? Their “To heck with them if they didn’t leave ahead of time” attitude is disgusting. These people are the poorest of the poor. Many don’t have a car and those that did didn’t have the $50 it now takes to buy a tank of gas to get away. I guess the “economic recovery” and the jobs created in the past year or more just passed these people by. So much for “compassionate conservatism”. Lets just call it what it is. Greed.
pantyhoseOMG!! I jsut went to your site Joanna and checked out all of the pics and he’s… easyhomebiz4u@…luv_pantyhoseJan 18, 20046:52 pm984 You’re trulyextraordinary, Joanna. Best of luck. JB… Jimmy
***********
Family values, Jimmy? “We’re the party of personal responsibility.” Until we do something wrong and get caught, then we rationalize and lie . . .
Hank checks in from his Intelligenty Designed Dreamworld:
“And now, in one of the most disgusting displays of partisan politics you looneys on the left re trying to blame George Bush in particular and republicans in general. For a naural disaster! You people are too stupid to contend with.”
Dum Dum Dum Dum:
First read this:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/1/132822/4063
And then thwap!:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
Which contains this:
“Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security — coming at the same time as federal tax cuts — was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.”
“In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.”
Ow. That’s the Army Corps of Engineers — that crazy left wing outfit — saying Iraq and tax cuts directly resulted in not completing improvements that could’ve prevented the levee problems. That’s not a smoking gun – that’s a point blank shot in the face in progress.
The Bush administration is VERY VERY much involved in how bad this disaster got.
I think if it was thousands of blonde white women waving on the rooftops, and lying dead in wheelchairs in convention centers covered in feces, the Republicans who are saying “screw them, they didn’t evacuate” would be whistling quite a different tune.
“Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for country.” JFK
Here’s one way to help:http://www.redcross.org/index.html
Anyone else have a link?
Dear GetReal,
You nitwit. That levee has been substandard for fifty years. I repeat, fifty years. Who would get the blame if this hurricane had hit in ‘98?
The people in New Orleans that are left are there because they made a conscious decision to stay. It has nothing to do with poverty or Bush. They are stupid and they are paying the price.
Hank
correction that should have read: ask what you can do for YOUR country.
Well, its official. It doesn’t matter what this administration does or who it does it to….these folks will back them all the way. I’m just certain that would not be the case if any of them were personally at risk in New Orleans. How sad….and gee, how modernly christian.
So, now we’ve reduced to bickering like little children? Here’s a word from a 16-year-old “child”.
a.) It IS partly some of the victim’s faults. Had they listened when the National Weather told them that Hurricane Katrina was going to hit them, they should have fled. Why do you stay during a hurricane? Even if it was a fluke and by some miracle chance it avoided you, at least you’d be alive, right? How about this quote from an Associated Press Report found in Thursday’s Eagle’s article “When will people learn to heed storm warnings?”
“…Pollard said about 50 people had died in that county, with some 30 of the dead at a beach-side apartment complex in Biloxi.”
Let’s think about this one for a moment. 30 of the dead. On the beach side. Why are you on the beach side during a HURRICANE? So in part, yeah, some of it IS the victim’s fault.
b.) How about we just pull out of Iraq, give up on fighting for our protection and freedom, let the Terrorists come and attack us. Maybe we can have a repeat 9/11 and we’ll lose even MORE Americans. Because obviously, whining about a war seems to be all that is on the mind of Democrats. We can’t blame Bush for every little thing that goes wrong. If it wasn’t for him and sending us to war, then we’d be under Terrorist reign and stripped of the freedom that so many of us take for granted.
c.) People HAVE been going down to help. It isn’t up to the government to always save us. Why does everyone look to the government to pull us out of the tough places? If people read History, which I know you do, you’d see that a lot has happened in the past WITHOUT aid of the government. We’ve got SO many Police, National Guardsmen, military soliders, non-profit organizations down there helping. There is only so much that people can do. Are we now stooping so low as to degrade the works of our Americans? We’re in this alone, it’s not like anyone else has our back, no matter what we do for them.
d.) If you’re so worried, how about you drive down there to help? Except, you may be turned away, as that’s what’s been happening to people who want to help.
e.) You can’t just keep blaming people. It’s everyone’s fault. Maybe it should have been better planned for. No one expected it to be this bad, though. We have to keep that in mind. There are so many small areas around New Orleans, too. Yeah, it’s going to be hard to get around to all of them, because even with all the help we’re getting, as I said, there’s still only so much that we can do.
So if you all are so worried and really want to help, how about we stop bickering on here, stooping to name calling and donate to Salvation Army, donate some money, or actually drive down there and do something that makes more of a difference than complaining about lack of help.
Poor Hank. He actually let this slip out:
“The people in New Orleans that are left are there because they made a conscious decision to stay. It has nothing to do with poverty or Bush. They are stupid and they are paying the price.”
I know you live in a suburb of Wichita, Kansas, but let me lay it out for ya. Most people in an urban center don’t own a car, and are way too poor to afford to pack up their family in a moment’s notice and flee like that. Many are too sick or infirmed to travel. Other older people live alone, are homebound, and have no one to get them out of town. Then there are the homeless, the illegal immigrant population, and so on. Yes, some people didn’t leave because they were stupid. But many of them could not leave even if they wanted to.
Now that you’re educated, perhaps you’ll think a little bit before you say something that dumb again.
Hank sez:
“Who would get the blame if this hurricane had hit in ‘98?”
The project was underway and funded in 1998. One thing that wouldn’t be blamed would be budget pressures from the WAR in IRAQ! This damn thing would’ve been properly funded and complete.
So enter the Bush administration -Bush CUT FUNDING for the renovations to be completed. Why? The War in Iraq over nothing. Tax cuts for the rich. It’s so clear and shiny, the right-wing spin just bounces right off of it.
Republicans just can’t take responsibility for their actions. Geez, so much for being the party of personal responsibility!
Dear GetReal,
Louisiana has been run by democrats for ever! They have turned it into a welfare state. People dependent on the government. The mayor of New Orleans is corrupt. He does not have the leadership ability to evacuate the city.
New Orleans has over 500 thousand people in the city proper. 80% left. They had over 4 days to evacuate. It is not Bush’s fault.
You are a nitwit. Scofield is a nitwit.
I still love ya though, because of idiots like you republicans will rule for another 50 years!
Hank
Hank has curled into the fetal position:
“New Orleans has over 500 thousand people in the city proper. 80% left. They had over 4 days to evacuate. It is not Bush’s fault.”
So they had 4 days, eh? Where the hell was FEMA for 4 days? Good lord, they should’ve had the entire response en route by then! They could’ve parachuted entire trains into the area between 4 days before the storm and now!! And they’re just getting to sending a proper response NOW?
Why did Bush stay on vacation, play golf, go to fundraisers, play guitar with country music people for 4 days?! Even Clinton came back to the WH to monitor Hurricane Floyd before it hit.
Wow. 4 days. Thanks for the reminder.
Yeah, just nothin’ at all.
Latest Information on the Federal Response
Courtesy: Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, FEMA
Latest Information from the National Guard
· Currently there are more than 13,000 National Guard members on state active duty in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. By tonight that number will to increase more than 20,000. And we will provide as many more as may be required
· Through Emergency Management Assistance Compact (EMAC) agreements, more than 320,000 National Guard soldiers, airmen, and their equipment from all states are available to support emergency operations.
· The National Guard is augmenting civilian law enforcement capacity, not acting in lieu of it.
· National Guard elements from nearly all states are providing or are positioned to provide additional assistance as required.
Latest News from the Department of Defense
· As directed by the Secretary of Defense and in accordance with the National Response Plan, U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM) is supporting the FEMA disaster relief efforts. NORTHCOM, the lead Department of Defense (DOD) organization for Hurricane Katrina response, is moving and/or mobilizing resources to support FEMA’s response and recovery efforts.
· NORTHCOM established Joint Task Force (JTF) Katrina to act as the military’s on-scene command in support of FEMA. Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander of the First Army in Fort Gillem, Ga., is the JTF-Commander. JTF Katrina will be based out of Camp Shelby, Miss.
· The Department of Defense will make available a fleet of approximately 50 helicopters to support FEMA’s operations. Eight civilian swift water rescue teams have been transferred from California to assist with recovery operations.
· DOD anticipates providing a 500-bed hospital and is considering deploying as many as 800 personnel to assist the American Red Cross with shelter support.
· DOD is moving to the area approximately eight ships to provide medical support, humanitarian relief, and transportation.
· DOD also anticipates moving the hospital ship USNS Comfort from Baltimore, Maryland to the Gulf region.
· DOD is prepared to provide over 20 million pre-packaged Meals-Ready-To-Eat (MRE) to augment current food supplies
· U.S. Transportation Command is providing medical airlift support to transport approximately 2,500 patients from New Orleans International Airport to National Disaster Medical System federal coordinating centers.
· Joint Forces Command is providing Department of Defense leased property at Old England Airfield as an intermediate staging base to support hurricane response in the state of Louisiana. This will serve as a staging point for National Guard personnel arriving from other states to support the Louisiana relief efforts.
· JTF-Civil Support (JTF-CS) is providing a joint planning augmentation cell to provide domestic chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-yield explosive (CBRNE) consequence management planning capabilities to JTF-Katrina.
· Defense Coordinating Officers (DCOs) and Defense Coordinating Elements (DCEs) in Clanton, Ala., Baton Rouge, La., Jackson, Miss., to liaison between U.S. Northern Command, FEMA and the Department of Defense. (Tallahassee DCO redeployed)
· Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala.; Naval Air Station Meridian, Miss.; Barksdale Air Force Base, La.; Alexandria, La.; and Ft. Polk, La.; as federal operational staging areas to expedite the movement of relief supplies and emergency personnel to affected areas.
· US Transportation Command flew eight swift water rescue teams from California to Lafayette, La. These California-based teams provide approximately 14 volunteer rescue personnel with vehicles and small rigid hulled boats who are highly trained and capable of rescuing stranded citizens from flooded areas.
· USS Bataan (LHD 5) and HSV Swift out of Naval Station Ingleside, Texas, sailed to the waters off Louisiana to provide support. Currently, the four MH-53s and two HH-60s off the Bataan are flying medevac and search and rescue missions in Louisiana. Bataan’s hospital may also be used for medical support.
· The Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG) is sailing from Norfolk, Va. loaded with disaster response equipment. The (ESG) consists of USS Iwo Jima (LHD 7), USS Shreveport (LPD 12), USS Tortuga (LSD 46), and USNS Arctic (T-AOE 8). The ESG is expected to be operating off the Louisiana coast beginning Sept. 4.
· The hospital ship, USNS Comfort (T-AH 20), is departing Baltimore to bring its invaluable medical assistance to the Gulf region. The Comfort is expected to reach the area Sept. 8.
· There are plans to bring USS Grapple (ARS 53) to assist with maritime and underwater survey and salvage operations.
· Three Army Helicopters from III Corps in Fort Hood, Texas, are in Baton Rouge and two more are in Mississippi to assist with search and rescue and damage assessment.
· Five Air Force helicopters from the 920th Rescue Wing (RQW) at Patrick AFB, Fla., and the 347th RQW at Moody AFB, Ga., are in Mississippi for search and rescue missions. These aircraft are capable of nighttime search and rescue and will also transport FEMA’s Rapid Needs Assessment teams to gather critical information for state and federal emergency managers.
· Standing Joint Forces Headquarters-North is providing an augmentation cell and its command and control vehicle to JTF-Katrina.
· USNORTHCOM’s Joint Operations Center is on 24-hour duty in Colorado Springs, Colo., to facilitate any additional requests for assistance that may come from FEMA representatives.
Detailed Statistics from the Department of Defense
What is already there:
As of September 1, 13,400 National Guard forces are in Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, and Mississippi assisting recovery efforts; performing life saving, life sustaining missions.
· Alabama: 2,000 personnel
· Florida: 700personnel
· Louisiana: 5,700 personnel
· Mississippi: 5,000 personnel
Seventy-five Army National Guard Helicopters from numerous states across the nation are providing direct support to Louisiana (44) and Mississippi (31) recovery efforts. Three Installations are supporting FEMA as staging areas. 50 aircraft can operate out of each base:
· Maxwell AFB, Alabama
· Barksdale AFB, Louisiana
· Meridian NAS, Mississippi
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) teams deployed in Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi. USACE is responsible for overall levee repair and New Orleans floodwater remediation.
· Assisting ice and water distribution
· Levee inspections and repairs
· Structural integrity and inspections.
· Temporary shelters
· Debris removal
Seven helicopters and 28 air crew members are supporting Search and Rescue and
transportation for FEMA
· 14 passenger capacity in each H-60 helicopter, 20 passengers in H-46
Eight civilian Swift Water Rescue teams with six large vehicles and boats able to
transport 20 people each plus a crew of 14. A 500 bed field hospital at New Orleans International Airport Six million Meals Ready to Eat, 9 million pounds of ice, 200,000 cases of water.
What is on the way:
National Guard contribution to the area is expected to increase to 20,000 by tonight.
Thirty-six helicopters medical evacuation, each with 4 person high-care capacity.
COMMANDO SOLO aircraft, which have wide-area broadcast capability, to provide AM, FM, HF, and TV communications support. Aerial reconnaissance for damage assessment – 24/7 coverage capability 800 personnel to assist the American Red Cross with shelter support USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) and dock landing ship USS Whidbey Island (LSD 41) are making preparations to get underway today for areas off the U.S. Gulf Coast in support of the FEMA relief operations.
Seven Ships, approximately 6,000 active duty personnel and approximately 15
helicopters are staged or en route to the gulf coast.
· Large Deck Amphibious Ship with five large helicopters and a landing craft in is in the vicinity of New Orleans, Louisiana; capability also includes 60 beds with nursing care; 300 beds with standard care. 2,000 Sailors + 1,000 beds, 6 additional helicopter spots
· High-Speed Support Vessel currently loading supplies in Ingleside, Texas. Carries 700 tons of supplies, 400 personnel spaces, operates at 40 knots.
· Logistics Service Support Ship carrying fuel, food, and other supplies on the east coast of Florida, to be on station off New Orleans as early as today. 200,000 gallons of fuel, 3,000 tons of stores and supplies.
· Three Amphibious Ships , including an additional large deck amphibious ship with medical and helicopter facilities and significant humanitarian assistance supplies was scheduled to depart yesterday and arrive 4 September. 6 landing craft embarked. 3,000 sailors +2,000 beds, 15 additional helicopter spots.
· Hospital Ship at Baltimore will depart 2 September and arrive 8 September. 1,000 bed facility, 800 medical personnel and crew.
FEMA requests for additional forces are in process or and expected to be filled shortly:
· 1,200 additional active duty personnel
· 11,00 National Guard personnel
· 45 helicopters
U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS RESPONSE EFFORTS
334 USACE personnel are deployed in Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi.
600 USACE personnel are working on long-term recovery operations in Florida.
Alabama: Post disaster declaration funding $14.825 million.
· Regional Activation: $200,000
· Ice: $1 million
· Water: $1 million
· Debris Removal: $5 million
· Roofing: $3 million
· Temporary Housing: $3 million
· Logistics: $ 500,000
· Wilmington District prepared to support the Mobile District.
Florida: Jacksonville District has the lead for response in Florida. Team leader remains
embedded at the Florida Long-term Recovery Office supporting 2004 hurricane operations, and Jacksonville District representative to Florida State EOC to provide technical assistance.
Louisiana: Repair operations for the 17th Street Canal discontinued due to helicopter support being diverted for search and rescue operations. Scheduled to attempt repairs again on 9/1/05. The water levels between the lake and New Orleans is equalizing. Considering capping the end of the canal leading to levee with sheet piling as a course of action. FEMA Region IV issued Post Declaration missions totaling $62.93 million. New Orleans District is still working to account for 50% of their personnel.
Mississippi: Post disaster declaration funding $50.27 million.
· Regional Activation: $200,000
· Ice: $1 million
· Power: $1 million
· Debris Removal: $5 million
· Roofing: $3 million
· Temporary Housing: $3 million
· Logistics: $500, 000
USACE is developing a plan and timeline for construction of temporary shelters for up to
50,000 citizens. The Memphis District (MVM) has the lead response for Louisiana. The
Mississippi River is closed to traffic from Southwest Pass to Natchez, MS.
Latest Statistics and Information from Coast Guard
Coast Guard helicopter rescue crews have rescued 1,225 people, and have completed 108 sorties, totaling more than 369 hours of flight time since post-Hurricane Katrina search and rescue operations began Monday.Coast Guard air crews flying from Coast Guard Aviation Training Center Mobile, Ala., saved 379 people, and have completed 93 sorties, totaling more than 352 hours of flight time overnight.The Intracoastal Waterway from Mobile to Carabelle, Fla., is open, and tug and barge traffic has resumed in the port of Mobile. All other ports and waterways from Mobile to New Orleans remain closed. The Port of Mobile is open to vessels with 12 feet of draft or less.All channel markers and buoys in Pascagoula, Miss., Gulfport, Miss., and Bayou La Batre, Ala., are damaged, destroyed or in the wrong position.Seven Coast Guard cutters and numerous small boats are patrolling the impacted areas of coastal Mississippi to conduct search and rescue, restore navigational aids, provide communications and provide law enforcement. Six more cutters are en route to assist.Numerous sheens on waterways, paint cans and propane bottles were spotted in Gulfport, Pascagoula, Mobile, Bayou La Batre, Biloxi, Miss., and Ocean Springs, Miss., by environment and hazardous material assessment teams.Coast Guard Maritime Safety and Security Teams are patrolling the Gulf Coast, providing law enforcement and maritime security support.Aircraft and crews from Mobile, Cape Cod, Mass., Miami , Clearwater, Fla., Atlantic City, N.J., Savannah, Ga., Corpus Christi, Texas, Barbers Point, Hawaii, and Elizabeth City, N.C., are involved in search and rescue operations around the clock.Latest News from FEMA
More than 54,000 people are in 317 shelters. FEMA is working with a multi-state housing task force to address expected continued sheltering and eventual housing needs. More than 82,000 meals have been served in the impacted areas.More than 1,700 trucks have been mobilized through federal, state and contract sources to supply ice, water and supplies. These supplies and equipment are being moved into the hardest hit areas as quickly as possible, especially water, ice, meals, medical supplies, and generators. It may, however, take several days for supplies and equipment to reach all victims because of damaged and closed roads and bridges.Eighteen of FEMA’s Urban Search and Rescue task forces and two Incident Support Teams are working in Louisiana and Mississippi Eight swift water teams from California are also deployed making a total of 1,200 people conducting search and rescue missions. All 28 of FEMA’s teams are activated for response, with the balance staged, enroute or mobilized.Fifty-one teams from the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) have been deployed, including five Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMATs) that are supporting New Orleans medical facilities and hospitals not fully operational. These teams have truckloads of medical equipment and supplies with them and are trained to handle trauma, pediatrics, surgery and mental health problems. Additional teams are staged in Anniston, Ala.; Camp Shelby, Miss.; and Baton Rogue, La., and will move out as conditions permit.NDMS has identified 2,600 hospital beds in a 12-state area around the affected area and is working with the U.S. Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs to move patients to these facilities.USDA’s Food and Nutrition Service is providing food at shelters and mass feeding sites and issuing emergency food stamps, infant formula and food packages to households in need.FEMA is coordinating logistics with the U.S. Department of Transportation and Louisiana National Guard in support of the ground evacuation of refugees sheltered at the Superdome in New Orleans to the Houston Astrodome in Harris County, Texas.A team of 66 transportation experts is supporting state and local officials in the damage assessment of highways, railroads, airports, transit systems, ports and pipelines. The Department of Transportation is supporting detour planning and critical transportation system repairs.Latest News from the Environmental Protection Agency
· The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has temporarily waived standards for gasoline and diesel fuels in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida under the Clean Air Act. Waivers have also been sent to the Governors of the 46 remaining states and territories providing temporary relief from volatility and sulfur standards.
· These waivers will ensure that fuel is available throughout the country to address public health issues and emergency vehicle supply needs. They will be effective through September 15 and only apply to volatility standards – the rate at which fuel evaporates – and the amount of sulfur in fuel.
· EPA emergency and response personnel are helping assess the damage and prepare to support cleanup in Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana. Teams are traveling to affected areas and conducting aerial assessments.
Latest News from the Department of Health and Human Services
· Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Mike Leavitt declared a public health emergency for Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, and Alabama. This action allows the Department to waive certain Medicare, Medicaid, State Child Health Insurance Program, and HIPAA requirements as well as make grants and enter into contracts more expeditiously during this emergency.
· HHS is establishing a network of up to 40 medical shelters, staffed by 4,000 medical personnel and with the collective capacity of 10,000 beds. The first shelters are in place in Baton Rouge and currently treating patients. More shelters will be opened within hours.
· HHS identified 2,600 beds in hospitals in the immediate area and 40,000 beds nationwide should they be needed.
· HHS continues to ship pallets of basic first aid materials and supplies to the area, and the Centers for Disease Control and Food and Drug Administration are assembling public health teams.
Latest News from the Department of Energy
· Department of Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman has authorized the release of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
Latest News from the Department of Transportation
· The Department of Transportation (DOT) is working closely with state and local authorities, federal partners, and private sector transportation service providers to assess damage to transportation infrastructure and assist in immediate recovery efforts.
· To date, DOT has shipped 13.4 million liters of water, 10,000 tarps, 3.4 million pounds of ice, and 144 generators among other essential supplies to affected areas.
· DOT has also deployed teams from the Federal Highway Administration, Federal Aviation Administration and Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration to help clear roads and inspect bridges, establish communications and increase operations at major airports, and to move generators to pipeline pumping stations to restore the flow of petroleum products to the southeast.
Latest News from the Department of Agriculture
· The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is sending experienced emergency response personnel to assist in incident response coordination. To date, the Forest Service has assigned 13 management and logistical teams and 35 crews of 20 people each to the affected areas and host communities. These resources are intended to assist in setting up logistics staging areas, the distribution of food products, and debris removal.
· USDA’s Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) is providing food at shelters and mass feeding sites, issuing emergency food stamps and infant formula, and distributing food packages directly to needy households. 80,000 pounds of USDA-donated commodities which consist of mixed meats, cheese, peanut butter, and pudding, arrived in Baton Rouge, La. today. Additionally, four trucks of baby food products were ordered for immediate shipment. One truck of infant formula will arrive in Baton Rouge today. The other three trucks of baby food products are on the way.
· FNS will provide waivers to food stamp recipients to enable them to use funds to purchase hot meals and will be expediting deliver of September benefits. Two truckloads of commodities have been dispatched to New Orleans with more to follow as requested.
· USDA Rural Development will provide a six-month moratorium on payments for 50,000 low-income residents in the affected areas. USDA will also be taking an inventory of vacant USDA housing to help accommodate displaced residents.
Latest News from the Department of Labor
· The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) continues to coordinate with the interagency community in providing support as outlined in the National Response Plan.
· OSHA Region VI has deployed its eight member Emergency Response Team to Baton Rouge to assess the situation and provide technical assistance to recovery workers and utility employers engaged in power restoration.
· In addition, OSHA is contacting major power companies in the affected areas to provide safety briefings to employees at power restoration staging areas.
· OSHA is releasing public service announcements to inform workers about hazards related to restoration and cleanup.
· OSHA has identified all Lowes and Home Depot stores in Louisiana and will be distributing safety and health fact sheets and materials to these locations.
Latest News from the Department of State
· The Department of State advises concerned family members of foreign nationals residing or traveling in areas affected by Hurricane Katrina to try to reach their family members by phone, email, or other available means.
· If family member cannot be reached, the State Department recommends they contact their embassy in Washington, D.C. for assistance. Reports from the region indicate that some phone lines are working but experiencing heavy call volume, so family members are encouraged to keep trying if lines are busy.
Latest News from the Department of Treasury
· The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced special relief for taxpayers in the Presidential Disaster Areas struck by the hurricane. These taxpayers generally will have until October 31 to file tax returns and submit tax payments. The IRS will stop interest and any late filing or late payment penalties that would otherwise apply. This relief includes the September 15 due date for estimated taxes and for calendar-year corporate returns with automatic extensions.
Latest News from the Small Business Administration
· The Small Business Administration (SBA) will position loan officers in federal and state disaster recovery centers. SBA is also prepared to provide help in other states in the eastern half of the country where the storm may also lead to disaster area declarations.
###
Dear GetReal,
Why didn’t these people leave?
They are stupid.
They had time.
Did you see the interviews of these people two days before the storm hit? They are stupid.
Did you see the interviews of these people one day before the storm hit? They are stupid.
The state government is corrupt. It has been corrupt for over 75 years. It has been democrat for over 75 years. The people that put up with them are stupid.
They had time to leave.
They are stupid.
The mayor is corrupt. New Orleans has one of the most corrupt city governments in the nation. It has been democrat for over 75 years. The people that keep electing corrupt mayors are stupid.
The people are stupid. It is criminal to stay in the path of that storm if you have kids.
If you believe that Bush is at fault for institutional stupidity in New Orleans you are stupid too.
I still love ya.
Hank
Thumbs up for you Jimmy! Thanks for reporting the facts.
Hey Jimmy,
Let me know when it comes out on CD, I’ll listen to it on the way to and from work until I hear it all!
Hank
Four years since September 11, and what have we learned? Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sure looks like we’re actually getting WORSE at dealing with crisis situations.
Looks like Jimmy has put all the whiners and complainers in their place.
I am always amazed at how some people think that the government should somehow respond instantly and flawlessly to a massively and unpredictably altered reality. Not that the complainers have any ideas beforehand. It’s always Monday morning quarterbacking for them.
The first job of first responders is to survive. Running to the coast with supplies and repair people before the hurricane struck would have made victims of the responders. It would have been stupid.
I doubt that a single complainer did anything meaningful beforehand to prepare for the storm or to help a neighbor, nor has done a thing to help since the hurricane struck.
As for the poor who have no car, it seems obvious that the distance one would have to walk or bicycle to get away from the flooding and heaviest damage is less than a day’s effort. But are these people looting for walking shoes and bicycles and tents? Hardly.
The well-practiced helplessness of the victim class always gives them a ready excuse when a reporter is looking for one. However, part of the law of evolution – the survival of the fittest – is having the gumption to work hard enough to have options when things go bad. The victim class has no options, just excuses and a well-honed ability for spreading blame. So sometimes they die because of it.
Maybe it’s not their fault. Probably it’s largely the fault of those who coddle and nurture the victim class.
Yes the poorest got left behind when 80% of the people fled the coast — the poorest workers, the poorest planners, the poorest thinkers. And now we’re spending billions to save their sorry butts. Why?
We need to get the state police down to the Oklahoma border to keep the busloads of coastal flotsam from coming to Kansas to live off our welfare for the rest of their lives.
Well now we know how Republicans are.
If they’re not as smart as we are, let them die.
If they’re not as rich as we are, they deserve to die.
If they’re not as white as we are, let’s kill them.
You people really disgust me.
Wow Gail, you seem to think because you have an education and have worked hard all your life that you will always have a job. I don’t think you realize how fast your life can change because of a natural disaster or a terrorist attack or a huge stock market crash.It doesn’t matter if someone is poor, black and/or have a drug problem…people need compasion. They need to be treated like humans, not animals. These people have been reduced to their basic animal instincts to survive, so I am not surprised at any behavior that is going on down there.The very very least FEMA could have done 2 days ago was start food and water drops. THERE WAS NOTHING!!! Sure they need to move people out, but we need to provide the very basics while they wait to be moved. This is where the government has failed.
FEMA, et al, won’t have as difficult a job a few days later as there are fewer survivors than there were just after the tragedy. If the entity (National Guard, for one) that is supposed to be present to deal with a state crisis of this nature was still in the state we wouldn’t be having quite the horrific outcome we’re having. Let me see, where might these folks be….? I agree with the reporter who said that the National Guard isn’t a piggy bank of fighters to be used to shore up our over-whelmed and under-staffed military in a foreign conflict, thereby leaving the protection and aid of our individual states in limbo. Anybody want to guess what would happen if we had an attack from foreign sources on our soil today? Our protection has been decimated. Protect the homeland first? Don’t make me laugh.
Aeon..Before making such comments, maybe you should come and hang out with some of us conservative white Republicans for awhile. You can generally find us Monday’s, Friday’s, Saturday’s and Sunday mornings walking the downtown streets of Wichita. We are the ones handing out water, food, hygiene supplies and clean underwear to the homeless and needy people on the street. Sometimes all they need is to know that someone cares enough to pray for them… regardless of color, age, or background.Don’t hate on people you really know nothing about.
You Republipukes can be as nasty as you want.My truck is loaded with food and water…I’m headed south. Some of practice what we preach.
Gone for a week…Libs, hold down the fort!
Aeon
Aeon, got your back.
I’m not holding back on the assholes on this blog.
Jimmy, your list doesn’t mean shit. As you so capably demonstrate, any asshole can make a list. It pales in comparison to the numberless people who have received NO AID, NOTHING AT ALL. Folks are WALKING OUT OF NEW ORLEANS, and have been for FIVE DAYS. So quit stroking yourself to Wingnut ecstasy over the great job BushCo, Chertoff, and all the rest are doing.
The response to Katrina is a total fiasco. An epic disaster and a tragic farce. But all of you are such whores for Bush that you’ll even defend his administration’s gutting of FEMA, and blame the children and elderly for their own deaths.
From the comfort of your family rooms, dens, and offices, you presume to pass judgment on the hundred of thousands of people, living and dead, who were caught in this storm.
Gail, who died and made you God? You act like the world owes you something because you’re a fortunate rich white conservative, and that everybody else can just go to hell. Your resentment at having YOUR tax dollars used to save someone else’s life would be truly reptilian, except that, as Sigourney Weaver said of the creatures in “Aliens,” “you don’t see them screwing each other over for a fucking percentage.” You’re the lowest of the low, Gail.
And Hank, the so-called Christian, gets his jollies blaming the victims because it affords him the opportunity to say ‘I told you so’ on a massive scale.
Well, what’s ‘massive’ here is the failure of the Bush Administration to guarantee the ’security’ of the ‘homeland’ from an event that had long, long been predicted. But I’ll tell you what’s more massive: the moral failure of the Right. This blog is a sad record of that failure.
For shame.
President Bush says:
“Relief Efforts Unacceptable”
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/index.html
Why does Hank and Jimmy disagree with the President? That’ll cause some brainlock with them for a few seconds.
By the way, the Convention Center this morning? No change. No water. No food. No shootings or security problems there either. There are simply to excuses. This is incompetence on a galactic scale.
Is this the best they can do after 9/11? If this was a terrorist attack, we’d all be dead. And they even saw this coming for 4 days, as Hank reminds us, unlike a terrorist attack.
The Bush Administration cannot fight a War. Given unlimited money for disaster preparedness, they can’t even take care of their own people. They are flaccid, whimpering children far out of their depth, and should be run out of office immediately. Before more of the country suffers what we see today.
This is a time for unconditional love for the people affected by the huricane. It should not matter what could or could not have been done to help ease the blow of the tragedy. There would be major damage either way. STFU about what the government is or isn’t doing and do something yourself!
This is a fantastic summary of everything that happened yesterday. Yes, it’s from a liberal blog, but you might be shocked at what you read.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/2/10154/23081
ATTENTION GAIL, JIMMY, and HANK–
VIABLE FETUSES ARE THREATENED BY NEW ORLEANS CATASTROPHE.
I thought maybe since you don’t give one damn about the little children passing out from lack of water, you don’t care about the disabled old women in their wheel chairs who weren’t “smart enough” to charter a plane out, maybe you would care about the UNBORN.
Or, I suppose since they’re the genetic offspring of “losers,” they should die as well, as long as it isn’t by ABORTION, right?
Part of doing something yourself is making sure we don’t repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again. People are dying right now because of incompetence and indecision. We need to put the pressure on our officials to get their act in gear, and save their lives now. So get on the phone with Brownback, Tiahart and Roberts. Tell them this is unacceptable, and make sure this never happens again.
Do you see us bashing the people of New Orleans? We all leave that to Hank.
We do offer them our unconditional love. And we share their unconditional outrage, and feel their unconditional suffering. We want to be advocates for them, because right now, they’re still dying in the USA when they shouldn’t be. Pick up the phone, and put some pressure on your elected officials. This is unacceptable. Do some good.
The left blamed the hurricane on global warming.
Next the right will say it is because God didn’t like NO.
As for the relief efforts I have to say that they are pretty pathetic.
BTW, I am copying and pasting this exchange to a WORD file so that it can be permanently posted on the internet somewhere.
I think it’s important to have a historical record so that “swing voters” can see exactly what reactionaries really think about their fellow Americans.
“the law of evolution – the survival of the fittest – is having the gumption to work hard enough to have options when things go bad. The victim class has no options, just excuses and a well-honed ability for spreading blame. So sometimes they die because of it.”
OMG, that is most hideously callous thing I’ve ever heard since this catastrophe happened. And what a better summing up of the right-wing attitude toward life could one want? “I better than you, that’s why I deserve whatever good thing I’ve got. You’re a loser, so just go away and die, but not in the vincinity where good people like me will have to smell your corpse.”
Utterly disguisting.
Thanks for showing your true colors so blatently. At least now no one can say they don’t know what you conservatives stand for.
All of the people could have gotten out of NO. The fact of the matter is most of the people there now didn’t or wouldn’t. Don’t say they couldn’t leave. There were options for everyone to leave town before the storm hit.
Been checking the blog for last week’s posts, looking for Randy and his fellow libs advice on how to handle the impending hurricane. Can’t find any for some reason. Guess it’s easier being a Monday morning QB.
Wayreth, what about Gulfport and Biloxi?
I am not doubting you, I’m just recalling a radio interview I heard last Saturday (I think) on KMUW. A Mississippian said that he and his family of five weren’t going to leave because it would cost them $500 to gas up all their vehicles (plus other expenses, $500 was his total estimate for the trip), and he didn’t have $500 to spend.
The guy sure didn’t sound like a complainer, he sounded like a responsible spender to me (who obviously made a drastic mistake).
I’m guess I’m not so convinced that everyone whose life was turned upside down by Katrina is a malingerer and can thus be “written off.”
Gentle people,
There was no attempt by most of these people to evacuate. Race has nothing to do with it. People of all races made the decision to “ride it out”.
People from New Orleans to Mobile decided to ignore the orders to evacuate. As a result, they are either dead or, because they need to be rescued, in the way.
It is criminal for a grown, healthy man of any race to be in the same line with women and children waiting for water. It is criminal to stay in harms way and keep you children with you.
These are people that are making the propblem so terribly bad. They are stupid.
Hank
Wayreth mind is trying to flee reality when he says:
“Don’t say they couldn’t leave.”
Now don’t say something like that – it just makes you sounds stupid.
Some people could leave and didn’t – yes. But many people could NOT LEAVE due to economic circumstances, illness, or other obligations.
I know you live in the middle of Comfortable, USA right now, but if you’ve ever lived in a real city, you know that this is simply the case. Many people don’t own a car. Many people have no money to rent a car or bus for their family. There was no public transportation out of the city that was free (to my knowledge).
Others are homebound, too elderly or sick, with no one to help them, and can’t leave.
I heard about a woman in a wheelchair who drowned in the living room of her house. Yeah, she’s just stupid, I guess.
Go read this, for the Love of God:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/washpost/20050831/ts_washpost/looting__fires_and_a_second_evacuation
‘Many of the residents left in New Orleans are poor, and while some people have criticized them for failing to heed mandatory evacuation orders, many residents say they were simply unable to get out for financial or medical reasons.
People are saying that those stuck in New Orleans now are those that wanted to stay, but that’s not true,” said Danelle Fleming, a New Orleans-based social worker. “They wanted to leave, but they couldn’t.”
She said that the city’s Greyhound station was closing Saturday afternoon — even as people without cars were trying to leave.
After being rescued from her roof, Moses said she was among those unable to evacuate before the hurricane. “My mother-in-law went out of town, but I didn’t have any money, so I couldn’t,” she said.
The only items she managed to hang on to were a bag of diapers for her daughter and a feeding bottle. She did not have time even to find her shoes.’
Why do Republicans hate Americans? And for that matter, why do Republicans hate Jesus?
Go get a soul. And some life experience.
Wayreth, You’re just wrong! How the hell do you figure? If you’re poor, don’t have a car, or don’t have $50 to fill the gastank, how do you leave?
And what the hell does it matter?!?! We got a lot of people in a world of shit and pain and dying! I can’t believe any American is alright with that! Anybody who turns their back on the folks in New Orleans and claims to be a Christian just earned a special place in hell.
Aeon, You go bro.
My prayers go with you.
Hank–
I only have one thing to say:
Be ye merciful, that ye may obtain mercy; forgive, that it may be forgiven to you; as ye do, so shall it be done unto you; as ye judge, so shall ye be judged; as ye are kind, so shall kindness be shown to you; with what measure ye mete, with the same it shall be measured to you.
Jesus
Jesus, you are a liberal freak. Go back to the left wing hole you crawled out of!
To anyone with a W sticker on their car:
Today, you have blood on your hands. You soul-less worshippers at the altar of Bush. You mindless McJesus Praise-O-Dome sheep. You killed New Orleans. You. You might as well have driven there with your NRA-approved assault weapons and just started shooting. But like the cowards you are, you did it by proxy.
You voted for this national disaster.
You voted to have a Secretary of State who shops for $1,000 shoes while Canadian search and rescue teams are detained at the border for paperwork problems.
You voted to create the largest unaccountable bureaucracy in the country, Homeland Security, and fill it with incompetent political patronage hacks.
You voted to cut funding for New Orleans flood control for 5 consecutive years.
You voted to send the National Guard to Iraq in search of false military glory.
You voted to ignore the needs of the poor in favor of tax cuts for the rich.
You voted for death.
If I could, I would drive to New Orleans and bring back a body to lay at each of your doorsteps.
You are not Christians. You are Satan’s handmaidens, and I curse you for it.
You member of the culture of life sure do hate the poor don’t you.
You’re fucking insane…you hate gays and claim abortion kills fetuses but you won’t step up to the plate when it comes to saving actual living babies.
yet the national guard is not here to help because of your guys idiotic foreign adventures in Iraq. Speaking of the culture of life, how many more troops killed will it take for your demographic to pull out, 58,000 like ‘Nam. It’s okay, you’ll blame it on the liberals anyway. You talk big about personal responsibility but don’t every accept it.
This is no time to be conservative, with funds or with your thinking. This is a crisis. Bush took money away from the levee projects in New Orleans to pay for Iraq. He is partially responsible.
I hope I run into you of your ilk somewhere in real life. I’ll give you a piece of my mind and maybe some more…
To all these kansas people suggesting ‘Its their fault for living in such a dangerous place, and they should have gotten out.’ I ask this: Will you refuse FEMA aid when the next Tornado levels your place this spring?
I can’t believe what I have been reading on this blog – you callous uncompassionate assholes don’t even derserve to breath the same air as I do. Oh – if only life were as black and white as you think it is. I am disgusted to know that some of you people even live in the same city as I do. So much for “Bleeding Heart Kansas”!
What is so difficult to understand that there are/were people who didn’t have the means to get out of New Orleans before the hurricane hit? Pull your collective heads out of the sand and take off your rose-colored glasses. This situation is straight out of a Stephen King novel – but guess what? It isn’t and it is happening in the most weathly country in the world – that has (or should have) unlimited resouces to help those in need. If our system wasn’t so tapped-out with the war in Iraq – we would and should have the resources to take care of our own. And rich or poor – black or white – these people are citizens of the United States – just like you and I are and they are entitled to basic human rights – and that includes dying with dignity and not in the gutter like an animal.
I have one question to pose. If they are able to get journalists and government officials in and out of the city – why can they not get those left behind out? Harry Conick Jr. said just this morning – he can get from Baton Rouge to the New Orleans Civic Center in just one hour – what the hell?
They did offer public transportation out of the area. People just didn’t take em up on it. As for the guy that said it would take $500 to fill up his car, well sure seems like a small price to pay now.
The bulk of the people that stayed behind should all be put up for Darwin awards now.
Good God, the next time a twister rips through another trailer park in your dreadful little no-account state, let me be the first to tell you all to piss off. The next time another round of subsidies has to roll from the cities to your barely-breathing farm towns just to keep them on a map, let me be the first to say that “People shouldn’t be dependent on the government.” And the next time I have to hear how “REAL Americans live in the middle” and all about “Red-state values” let me be the first to tell you to shove it, you hypocritical, heartless, scum-sucking Pharisees.
Wayreth, I thought you guys don’t “believe” in Darwin in your state? Maybe a “Poorly Created” award would be more appropriate coming from Kansas?
I’m not wanting to get in the screaming match, but has anyone noticed that Mr. Bisoni’s post about this many soldiers and that many doctors, and X number of generators has a serious tense problem?
Mainly, it’s all what FEMA is GOING to do. “Anticipates”. “Is Moving To”. Future tense. Here we are on Day 5 since the landfall (Day 7 since we knew it was coming), and only now does the ship set sail, only now does the work even begin to save these people. We managed to air-drop food, water, and medicine on the other side of the world, and NOLA’s children are dying of dehydration?
And while it would be foolish to deny that LA’s government is foolish and corrupt, no one has asked what, exactly, a state government can do to evacuate people when the whole state is expected to be destroyed. Were they supposed to put people in tent cities to be hit by a hurricane? No, finding a place for an expected 1.5 million displaced people is beyond the capability of ANY state government on it’s own.
Which is why Michael Brown’s (head of FEMA) activities this weekend are something I’m quite curious about.
Wayreth said: “They did offer public transportation out of the area.” I’m dying to see a link for this, because I seem to recall a lot of people being sent to the Superdome and other shelters in the area. However, I’m unaware of any publicly funded bus caravan prior to the storm. I would be thrilled to be wrong, if it meant more people were safe and healthy.
Gentle people,
Yes, there are people in the wake of this hurricane that could not get out. There are people that for one reason or another, health, poverty or age that had to stay.
These people are a very small percentage of the people that you find in line demanding services; wandering the streets preying on stranded tourists and citizens; looting the electronic and jewelry stores; firing on police, national guardsmen and rescue helicopters.
Because these people made a conscious decision to stay and loot the really needy people that we all care for are dying.
The local and state government had no plan to enforce and carry out thier evacuation orders. This is not the administration’s fault. The only bus these local politicians want filled are the ones taking these people to the polls every other November.
The local government is corrupt and incompetent. The greater percentage of the people left are criminal and stupid. It has nothing to do with race, Christianity or FEMA. It is civil disobedience and corruption.
The disgusting people that try to make this an issue to lay at the feet of George Bush are just as criminal as the ones firing on the rescuers. Because of your attempt to politicize this tragedy the real solutions needed to prevent an occurance may not be addressed.
Hank
Bedouin,
Ha ha ha ha! Good one! As the blog shows, Wingnuts are fully committed to Darwinism if it’s the Social Darwinist kind.
Wayreth, that’s bullshit. The public transportation offered was limited and not accessible across the board.
And Hank–race has EVERYTHING to do with it. Don’t play dumb. When has America ever given a shit about what happens to a bunch of *******? Your “fuck ‘em” attitude drowns out your protests to the contrary.
Hank,
And don’t call me a criminal either, asshole. No one is dying because of my actions. That’s more the fuckhead in the White House can say.
Dear Mr. Galt,
Why don’t you calm down and tell us what you really think?
Hank
Why don’t you get a conscience and think about what you’ve said?
Hank! Stop being so condescending and referring to us as “gentle people”! I am feeling far from gentle – I am fucking PISSED OFF!What makes you such an authority on how many people chose to stay and how many couldn’t get out? And you singing the same song about the local governement being corrupt is a mute point.
Instead of wasting so much energy badmouthing the indigent and poor on this blog, why don’t act like the christian you claim to be and put your energy into actually helping those in need. You obviously have way too much time on your hands – so why don’t you go and volunteer or do something that actually contributes to our society instead of wasting your time trying to get those of us who actually do give a shit to try and understand your ignorant and pathetic point of view. You and the other wingnuts out there are truly sad, sad people.
I’ve read nothing but blame here. Who’s fault is it? who can we slam? Why this…why that…It’s no ones fault. There was a hurricane and it blew away New Orleans and the surrounding countryside. There are basically no roads, no airports, etc.,etc.. It’s difficult for any help tp get in. And those that do are getting shot at.The thing is to now get whatever help we can get in place so these poor people who lost everything, collect and bury the dead,get fed, get medical aid, and do whatever it takes. Play the blame game after this is all over, the I’s dotted and people taken care of.But if your into blame more than anything else, blame Bush for being in office and doing nothing, and blame the New Orleans Democrats for running a city for 50 years and doing nothing to prepare their people for this.BOTH SIDES ARE QUILTY IF THAT”S WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR!Now go out and help a human being.
‘Both sides are quilty.’ ‘Quilty’? Isn’t he a character in Nabokov’s “Lolita?”
Dear VC,
Thank you so much for your timely advice. Of course you make judgements with absolutely no knowlege of what I have already done or of what I have pledged to do.
Your feigned outrage and vulgarity allow you to completely ignore the points being made and go immediately in to your ad hominum attacks. Way to contribute to the disaster relief.
Sincerely,
Hank Price
What ‘points being made’ are those, Hank? The ones that blamed the victims and defended the do-nothing opportunism of the Bush administration, which prefers foreign adventures to domestic disaster relief?
As an apologist for the Administration whose lies and incompetence magnified the scale of this disaster, the blood is on YOUR hands, Hank. You’re a liar and a fool.
Dear CF,
You have an amazing debating style. Ignore the substance of one’s remarks and then because you lack the intelligence to reason in a decent way you resort to vulgarity. What a way to win converts to your twisted-hate-Bush point of view.
I apologize if you think I was referring to you specifically with my ‘criminal’ remark. I was referring to the left-wing politicians and press that were using this disaster to shift blame and score political points.
I don’t think you are smart enough (based on you past biased tirades) to actually come up with a cogent thought. I am not concerned that anything you have to say or write will ever effect public opinion or policy for the good or bad. You are just one of the fools the left panders to.
Sincerely,
Hank Price
Cut through the bullshit, Hank.
You were ABSOLUTELY referring to me by implication: left wingers who criticize the president are crimials, CF is a left winger, therefore CF is a criminal. You can run from your own logic, Hank, but you can’t hide.
As for the ’substance’ of your remarks, what is that? Leave folks to die because it’s their own damn fault? It should be pretty obvious why I object to your nihilism.
You’re an empty windbag with no conscience. When thousands of thousands of people are left to die by a President, you worry about vulgarity. Who’s the truly hateful one, here, Hank?
What a hypocrite you are.
Ok, Igive up CF,
You are right. You are stupid and a criminal.
Twist what I say to fit you preconcieve notions, then use ad hominum attacks to make your point.
Great Job!
Hank
Hey Hank! I am a social worker – I contribute on a daily basis. How ’bout you?
The very people I serve (were a disaster to happen here) are the same poor and downtrodden you appear to care nothing about – they are just in a different city. What else I am to do but to advocate for them? Someone has to give a shit.
Dear VC,
Bless you for the work you do.
Hank
Don’t bother debating with Hank. He can’t do it. When he gets spanked, he fakes brain damage and pretends he was making another point entirely. In other words, he lies.
His keyboard far exceeds the depth of his thoughts.
Ah, Mr GetReal,
Another intellectual giant contributes to the debate! And what exactly is your solution to the disgraceful relief response?
Oh, bad mouth Hank. That will help!
Hank
My response to the crisis? Hold people accountable. What wasn’t done after 9/11 to find out who was to blame and to punish those responsible had damn well better get done this time.
The remarks of others on this blog to the contrary, the blame in this case goes all the way to the top, and the time to assign blame is RIGHT NOW.
Dearest CF,
Brilliant solution! Couldn’t aggree more! Now that we are trying to complete the evacuation of the healthy survivers that should have been evacuated before the disaster, and now that the rescue and relief efforts are being jeopardized by a city government that has basically folded like a cheap suitcase in the face of the worst disaster in US history, the most important task in your mind while people are still dying needlessly is to “assign blame RIGHT NOW”
Brilliant. Exactly what we can expect from a left wing cry baby.
Hank
Bedouin the religious right loons on the State BOE don’t believe in Evolution. I however do.
Just as not all Muslims are terrorists, not all Kansans are IDers.
JM Walker pointed out (upthread) that there’s plenty of blame to go around. I agree.
I think there’s a pretty good chance that, after the dust settles and tempers cool, after the Congressional investigations and independent investigations are finished, the conclusions will probably bear out Hank’s conclusions more than lots of people here know. (apparently)
Seems to me these things always come back to bite those closest to the bone, i.e., local and state governments. That’s usually a given.
I’m sure the Federal government will come in for its fair share, too (for instance, it’s a shame that troops failed to arrive en masse until earlier today, 4 full days after Katrina came ashore).
In my opinion, gloating now will very likely approach closely the flavor of crow in a year or so. If you’re a Democrat and you’re calling for heads to roll now, then I’d be careful what you wish for.
$0.02
Dear Flike,
The important thing IMHO, is to try and find ways to improve our responses in the future. And try to do it in a non-partisan way.
We need to examine the evacuation plans that were in effect for New Orleans and figure out why they either didn’t work or weren’t implemented.
The Governor of La is in charge of the National Guard. When the mayor of NO called for a mandatory evacuation, the Guard should have been brought in immediately to ensure the hospitals and other no-ambulatory people were removed. Then they should have started on the rest of the city.
Of course approximately 30% of the Guard is in Iraq. That leaves 70% or over 8000 men to help with the evacuation orders. Plus 100% of the available national guard trucks and other vehicles.
Is there enough blame to go around? Sure. Are innocent people suffering and dying? Sure. Too jump on the Blame-Bush-Now-We’ll-Find-A-Reason-Later band wagon is just stupid and unproductive.
Hank
Way to completely ignore my post about “as you treat the least of me, so shall you be treated,” Hank.
But I forgot, Jesus never helped “stupid” people, only the rich conservatives . . .
******
BTW, Hank, you know what I think is stupid?
Going down in a submarine.
I think any idiot dumb enough to think that he can swim with whales should just have to put up with any problem that he encounters down there. After all, he knew what he was getting into . . .
Those Russians in the mini-sub stuck in cables a few weeks ago. Yeah, let the idiots just die . . .
Dearest Galahad,
I apologize for ignoring your little religious post. To be truthful though, I ignore a lot of what you write. After some of your previous posts I found your scripture references a little hypocritical.You’re starting to reach a little trying to get to me. I volunteered for submarines. I volunteered for dive school. Many is the times that I thought that it was very stupid to be on a submarine. Following a Tango ahead flank under the arctic ice cap more than 20 miles from the nearest known polynya comes to mind immediately. But there are other times I was a little scared too. Getting depth charged because we were a little close to Murmansk also is still a little vivid in my memory.
But then nothing in my Navy career ranks up there with the stupidity of staying in NO as a level 5 hurricane approaches.
As far as the Russian submariners goes, thank God they are safe. You need to be thankful that I will never be in the position of having to choose between your life and any submariner’s.
Thanks for your concern,
Hank
I’m tired of being called a white, rich, right wing, Republican just for telling the honest truth. It happens that I’m not white nor Republican nor right wing nor rich; so take your empty, partisan rants and try them on someone who cares.
Black economist Thomas Sowell has long ago, brilliantly summarized this entire debate, as follows: Liberals like to think there are only three kinds of people in the world — rich, selfish Republicans who never care for anyone but themselves (liberal class envy), poor unfortunate people who can’t fend for themselves (this is also known as the liberal bigotry of low expectations), and good people like themselves who will take from the rich and create big government programs to uplift the downtrodden.
His take on these issues is brilliantly covered in his latest book, “Black Rednecks and White Liberals.”
In his words: Poor Southerners were once regarded as “lazy, lawless, and sexually immoral.” But even as both black and white Southerners have moved up in class and affluence, Sowell notes that ghettos are still filled with “black rednecks” who have never escaped these self-destructive patterns. Why not? Their attempt to escape, as Sowell demonstrates, has been consistently and repeatedly hampered by white liberals. The Left, says Sowell, has turned dysfunctional “black redneck” culture into “a sacrosanct symbol of racial identity.”
After all, liberals don’t allow recent naturalized citizens from Africa to call themselves African-American. They want to keep the old American negroes down on the plantation.
Most liberals are disgusting in the way they argue and misuse government. Sometimes I’m ashamed to be a associated with liberals.
Somehow, Gail, I don’t think you have to worry about being associated with liberals. I’m just happy to know you’re not in charge of the relief efforts.
Gail, you’ll never know how glad we are that you and your attitude aren’t associated with us. Somehow, it’s comforting to know you’re not white.
Gail – there was never a doubt that you were a peace loving, tree hugging liberal – you are hardly worthy to carry that badge of honor. Only the compassionate are allowed in the Democratic party. And you are far from that!
First off.
If refugess from the storm come to Wichita, I will be by the road with my son. We will wave signs to these folks that say “welcome to Wichita”. I hope many will join us. These folks have lost everything. They need to know that America at large cares.
Clearly their ‘president” does not. That aid was so slow getting to them is SHAMEFUL! But the we are dealing with a “president” and his supporters who clearly have no shame.
Hank??? Do you really want me to destroy you in this blog again as I did before? Bisoni you raise being a mean bastard to high art and your posts show it. Gail? You are new. How sad to know that there are ever more people who truly make me ashamed to be an American merely in the fact that I must breathe the sme air a a cretin like you.
I want Gail an Hank and Bisoni and Neal Boortz an Bill O’Reilly to do something for me. Since such as you are so devoid of any sense of human compassion, can you wear a label or something? I sure as Hell wanna teach my kid to avoid you at all costs. Get that conservative label on your house too. Fire? WE don’t need no water let you mother fuckers BURN! Get a bumper sticker too. I really wanna know who you people are! Quit hiding! Get the courage to come out from behind a keyboard! Just say up front that “I am a self absorbed asshole” I do not want to work with you. I do not want to live near you. I am frankly ashamed that evolution hasn’t rendered you extinct.
Whew……..Fogive me folks of the more sane political pesuasion. Those people mak me so mad I can’t see. Frankly if I met them and they spouted their crap I’d poke ‘em in the nose (yup bushies that is your invitation to come see me personaly ) Failing that, see I’m gonna do what some other poster said. From Now on I will skip over the posts of hank and bsoni and gail. They are not Americans. They are no even human.
So back to the point. More than a million are displaced. It is likely some will eventually need shelter here. And if we know they are coming we should welcome them.
First off.
If refugess from the storm come to Wichita, I will be by the road with my son. We will wave signs to these folks that say “welcome to Wichita”. I hope many will join us. These folks have lost everything. They need to know that America at large cares.
Clearly their ‘president” does not. That aid was so slow getting to them is SHAMEFUL! But the we are dealing with a “president” and his supporters who clearly have no shame.
Hank??? Do you really want me to destroy you in this blog again as I did before? Bisoni you raise being a mean bastard to high art and your posts show it. Gail? You are new. How sad to know that there are ever more people who truly make me ashamed to be an American merely in the fact that I must breathe the sme air a a cretin like you.
I want Gail an Hank and Bisoni and Neal Boortz an Bill O’Reilly to do something for me. Since such as you are so devoid of any sense of human compassion, can you wear a label or something? I sure as Hell wanna teach my kid to avoid you at all costs. Get that conservative label on your house too. Fire? WE don’t need no water let you mother fuckers BURN! Get a bumper sticker too. I really wanna know who you people are! Quit hiding! Get the courage to come out from behind a keyboard! Just say up front that “I am a self absorbed asshole” I do not want to work with you. I do not want to live near you. I am frankly ashamed that evolution hasn’t rendered you extinct.
Whew……..Fogive me folks of the more sane political pesuasion. Those people mak me so mad I can’t see. Frankly if I met them and they spouted their crap I’d poke ‘em in the nose (yup bushies that is your invitation to come see me personaly ) Failing that, see I’m gonna do what some other poster said. From Now on I will skip over the posts of hank and bsoni and gail. They are not Americans. They are no even human.
So back to the point. More than a million are displaced. It is likely some will eventually need shelter here. And if we know they are coming we should welcome them.
My, my, my — all this righteous indignation and self-praise by the do-gooder, bleeding heart crowd is more fun than I’ve had in days. You guys are sure easy to set off.
The size of the calamity in the South is a mere byproduct of people sitting on their butts and expecting things from their government instead of being even just a little bit self-sufficient. It is a byproduct of the most corrupt city and state in the USA (democrats, by the way) that never faced up to their own responsibilities to provide flood protection and emergency support for their people.
Now, on cue from the Bush haters, all of a sudden its the president’s job to anticipate the scope and precise location of all calamities and orchestrate a flawless nanny state rescue to satisfy bleeding hearts.
Most of the stranded people didn’t even try to help themselves, the city didn’t help them, the state didn’t help them; but it’s all George’s fault. Right.
You guys are so transparent. You politicize everything and hate George Bush more than anything or anyone else. Beyond that, you have nothing to add to the solution of any problem.
Glad to have had the opportunity to be a bother to you.
By the way, JR. I’m not a US citizen. I’m a visiting professor from overseas. Not all of us liberals have lost our minds. I’m talking about true liberals, not the American fever swamp variety that is motivated more by anger and hate than by seeing things for what they truly are.
I come back here to see if anything has changed, and look what I see. I see more and more adults sitting here acting like children. Name calling! Are you guys now stooping so low as to degrade everyone else around you because they have different views on this? “Oh, well you’re a stupid Republican” or “You’re a loser Democrat.”
You know what?
That’s all shit.
I could sit here and call each of you some kind of name. But you don’t see me doing that, do you. SIXTEEN YEARS OLD and I haven’t even stooped as low as more than HALF of you.
You want something to be done down there? You go down there then. If it worries you SO much, then why aren’t you down there helping? You know why? You’re sitting here, degrading everyone else on this blog. How is that helping anything?
Are any of you taking in account how dangerous it is to be down there? You wanted help in advance? If we had done that, our help would have been wiped out with the victims they were to save. No one knew how much of Louisianna this would wipe out.
There are so many people down there, it’s natural we won’t be able to save everyone. We don’t know where everyone is, who has already fled, who’s still hiding and trying to wait this out.
We can’t deliver everything that’s needed right away. We have so many people out there donating their food, clothes, homes, and services. And yet, here are all of you, whining about it. I have some respect for those who have already left to help, Democrat or not.
And you dare to criticize the Republicans, once again, blaming it on Bush Administration? Every one wants to blame someone, and Bush is always at the blame. Why? Because “Bush is such a bad man”. It’s because of Bush that we’re not being run down by Terrorists right now. I understand that not everyone sees it that way. But it’s true. Bush is the reason that we haven’t been hit by Terrorist.
How did you expect for us to plan for this? We had people down there after this Hurricane hit. But it’s not like we could have them there waiting for it to attack. We never expected for it to cover so much of Louisianna. We never expected so much damange, flood damange.
New Orleans is NOT the only place affected. There’s more to Louisianna that people are trying to get to. Alabama has been hit, too. If you guys are all so humane then you would have your butts down there offering your lives to help them
But you’re not. You’re here, whining about the lack of help.
IF YOU WANT ACTION, THEN GO DO IT.
I’m sick of everyone expecting that the government will always save us. We are humans. We’re Americans. We should be able to do something to help ourselves. I agree that the last 20% should have left when they had the oppurtunity. I know that for some, it was impossible.
It has nothing to do with race though. Whites are down there as well as blacks. I’m sure there is a share of Mexian/Hispanic and other ethnicities. Fact is, they can’t have always relied on the government. If they couldn’t leave, I have sympathy for them.
They’ve known for a long time though that if New Orleans was ever hit by a category F5 Hurricane, they would be flooded. They’re below sea level. I would never have lived there myself. In a place that holds so much threat?
As for talking about the fact that in the act of tornado we’d want help? Of course we would! Tornados do not give you as much warning. You don’t have the same time to flee. Besides, everyone wants to be saved or helped. I’m not sayin that we aren’t supposed to be helping those in Louisianna. I just merely said that things could have been done to prevent it. We’ve still got all the help down there we can get. We’ve gotten millions of dollars from other countries, countries offering their oil refineries and oil for us. Quoted from today’s article “World Offers to help US rebuild” – “Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon sent a letter to President Bush offering hundreds of doctors, nurses, technicians and other experts in trauma, natural disasters and public health.” Texas is takning in 75,000 people. That’s a lot of people, especially with as big as their cities already are.
Australia has donated EIGHT MILLION. We’re getting all kinds of aircrafts from France. Canada is sending vessles of food and emergency supplies to us. Even places like Venezuela and Cuba, who have very rocky relationships with the United States have offered us help.
How dare you guys say we’re not getting help? Look at all those people.
We have American Red Cross donating everything they can. The Kansas Salvation Army has been collecting itmes. People are opening their homes up to house people who won’t be able to pay for themselves, have nothing to offer. Whole families. Sickly elderly. Hospitals are being opened up. Doctors, nurses, technicians are being sent down there. We have places opening long closed aprtment buildings to hold people.
Again, I state: How dare you say we have no one down there.
People rushed down there to help. We’ve all been donating to help. So you can’t say that we’ve got little going, little help.
Whether they’re Republican or Democrat, or another party, they’re offering all the help.
It’s about time you guys start being real Americans, stop criticizing each other, and do something other than sit here, bicker, whine, and name call. That disgusts me. I’m supposed to look to you people as to set an example of how I should act. So far, you’ve done a poor job of that. Why not set aside differences as so many others have, so many other countries have, and do something that makes a difference as opposed to name calling?
Gail–
Ah ha . . . the plot thickens. Might you be from Nigeria, with perhaps the most corrupt and venal government on Earth? Might you be from Kenya or Tanzania, where a little money under the table buys big pharma the right to test drugs on illiterate peasants? Maybe you’re from Egypt which hasn’t had a fair election ever? Or Israel which deals with its Palestinian problem by not allowing them to vote and forcing them into wretched ghettos. Maybe you’re from South America somewhere, where the rich live in fabulous splendor behind walled compounds while the campisinos starve and die at the gates.
Just because we’re liberal doesn’t mean were ignorant of how much worse the poor have it in other countries and how much you elites enjoy maintaining the status quo and justifying it with you self-serving conservativism.
Enjoy your stay in the land of the free where we can discuss things like this publicly (which may not be the case in your benighted country). But when you go home, stay there.
We don’t need more people like you here, that’s for sure.
And by the way, Gail. You are NOT a LIBERAL.
Under no circumstances should you call yourself that. For God’s sake woman, don’t represent our views as anything like what you hold.
You are as far away from a liberal in your political views as a person can get.
My dear, gentle Hank–
I don’t really think submariners are stupid, man. I was just trying to point out that people always do things that other people think is “stupid,” and I was using an example I thought you’d be able to identify with.
So you can’t justify not helping people because they did something you think is stupid. That would mean we should never give hospital care to teenage drivers who cause accidents, because “it was their own damn fault.”
You’ve never done anything that a reasonable person might think is stupid? If yes, then you’re the only one on Earth.
For instance, voting Republican is really, REALLY stupid. Yet I would never say we should just let Republicans die.
You’re judging me from your own crabbed and judgmental attitude and in doing so, missed my point.
I wonder if the school Gail is working for is aware of how anti American he is – I am sure they would have thought twice about inviting him here had they known. I hope there are no students being damaged by his narrow views. I dare Gail to write a letter to the Eagle spewing this garbage he has been in this blog and actually sign his name to it. He will be run out of Wichita and the states quicker than you can say “Rebulicans are hypocrites”!
Oh – and is anyone else happy this bozo can’t vote here in the states? I know I am!
I think Gail has said too much about herself. I am guessing French?
Ashlie, you’re only 16? I’m impressed! I wish everyone your age was as informed and concerned as you are, you go girl!
Ashlie? Is that…? Na…never. Great post. you said what most intelligent people would say, only better. This bickering, name calling, smarmy mouthed nonsense spewed by certain individuals, whom shall remain brainless, is nothing less than irksome.Put politics aside for a change and take a hard look at the real world. Go meet a neighbor, go to church, get la…, well, never mind that. Donate to a charity, visit the elderly, call your mom, eat a pizza, turn in a pusher, forget about driving across town (too expensive), throw that kid’s soccer ball back in his yard, reload your shotgun shells (hey…it’s dove season!).
So VC, Gail should be censored, right?
Unfortunalety, there is some, not much, but some truth to what Gail writes. When government, federal, state, and local, did not answer the question, “What’s going to happen to this city if a major hurricane hits?”, then the citizens should have answered it for them and made the much needed improvements that should have been done decades ago to protect thenselves. They did not.That Gail has little, if any comapssion for the people of the city is fairly plain. And her/his comments about liberalism in this country leads me to believe that she/he believes more in communism than liberalism.Visiting professor? I’ll pass up your course, thank you very much.
Gail wrote:
“1) My, my, my — all this righteous indignation and self-praise by the do-gooder, bleeding heart crowd is more fun than I’ve had in days. You guys are sure easy to set off.
2) The size of the calamity in the South is a mere byproduct of people sitting on their butts and expecting things from their government instead of being even just a little bit self-sufficient. It is a byproduct of the most corrupt city and state in the USA (democrats, by the way) that never faced up to their own responsibilities to provide flood protection and emergency support for their people.
3) Now, on cue from the Bush haters, all of a sudden its the president’s job to anticipate the scope and precise location of all calamities and orchestrate a flawless nanny state rescue to satisfy bleeding hearts.
4) Most of the stranded people didn’t even try to help themselves, the city didn’t help them, the state didn’t help them; but it’s all George’s fault. Right.
5) You guys are so transparent. You politicize everything and hate George Bush more than anything or anyone else. Beyond that, you have nothing to add to the solution of any problem.
Glad to have had the opportunity to be a bother to you.”
Posted by: Gail – and proud of it
And then she wrote,
6) “By the way, JR. I’m not a US citizen. I’m a visiting professor from overseas. Not all of us liberals have lost our minds. I’m talking about true liberals, not the American fever swamp variety that is motivated more by anger and hate than by seeing things for what they truly are.”
This should be fun. As y’all can see, I’ve numbered the paragraphs for easier commentary.
Regarding her paragraph two, as a non-U.S. citizen, perhaps Gail cannot be expected to know that flood control and waterway construction are the exclusive jurisdiction of the Army Corps of Engineers. Local, regional, and state municipalities, in all their efforts, are always answerable to the Corps. And really, from the interviews I’ve heard with the present head of the Corps, they have to be the ones to do cost/benefit and risk analyses, so it doesn’t sound like local and state municipalities have much say at all. Thus, her accusations regarding the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana not facing up to their responsibilities are null.
Regarding her third paragraph, she commits a straw man fallacy. Nobody expected an instant response. Everybody expected SOME response. Instead, way too little way too late. This had been predicted for decades and was one of FEMA’s top three worst-case scenarios.
It is in the fourth paragraph that Gail again begins to show herself as the lowest of the low. What is her evidence for claiming that ‘most of the stranded people didn’t try to help themselves?’ This, of course, is the prelude to blaming them for the scope of the disaster, a charge of which Gail wishes to exonerate the president.
Finally, in paragraph 6, Gail purport to assume the mantle of true liberal and to dismiss the rest of us.
Well, Gail, let me tell YOU something about liberalism. And you ought to listen, because the only thing that exceeds your effrontery is your ignorance.
Modern liberalism begins with Spinzoa and Hobbes. Spinoza proposes the secularized state in the “Theological Political Tractatus,” and Hobbes introduces social contract theory in “Leviathan.” The key feature of liberalism–the ‘one, true, liberalism’ perhaps–is the idea of the social contract. Hobbes asks the question: what would compel men to surrender their right of nature (right to take what they need, and to defend their interests) in order to leave the state of nature, the war of all against all, in which life is nasty, brutish and short? Well, the guarantee of their safety, is Leviathan, a ‘giant man’ able tocombine all their powers into an agency able to do what all of them, individually, cannot: to guarantee their safety.
This is the sine qua non of social contract liberalism over the last 500 years. Once one has assigned one’s right of nature to the state, the state has the absolute duty to protect my life and interest. That’s ‘absolute,’ as in ‘unconditional.’ The moment the state fails to do this, my right of nature reverts to me. Even Hobbes, the arch defender of the status quo, agrees with this.
New Orleans is now a state of nature. The implicit social compact that has, up until now, guided American affairs, has been broken by the failure of government to fulfill its end of the bargain. And when that happens, the foundations of the liberal state are destroyed.
By hanging hundreds of thousands of people out to dry, and being either unable or unwilling–it really doesn’t matter which, by the way, since Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau don’t distinguish between deliberate refusal and inadvertent failure–the Bush Adminstration has violated the social compact.
Anyone who calls herself a liberal should recognize this. I expect no such recognition from you Gail, who remain the lowest of the low, academic credentials be damned.
CF–Wow, brilliant analysis.
Looks like our “visiting professor” just got a bit of an education.
That’s what you get, Gail, for reading a conservative shill like Thomas “Uncle Tom” Sowell instead of the academic canon. Actually, calling him “Uncle Tom” is kind of unfair–to Uncle Tom. The character from Stowe’s novel was at least kind.
VC–Gail is all too American in her view, not anti-American. She’s saying the same thing Hank and Jimmy are saying: they have to take “responsibility” for their own action or inaction.
Tippy Toes–French bashing was really “in” about three years ago among you conservatives. What wasn’t funny then is even less funny now. If you know even the smalles iota about modern French politics, you’d know that it bears no resemblance to anything Gail has said.
J.M.–ditto for “she’s a communist.” The old Bolshevik Soviets used the veneer of communism to set up a totalitarian state. It didn’t look much like anyone’s idea of communism. Gail’s comments are typical of the aristocratic views of entitlement that Marx hated. She would be a number one “class enemy” to a communist.
Ash LIE–your condemnation of name-calling would be a lot more persuasive if you didn’t do it yourself: “and I haven’t even stooped as low as more than HALF of you,” “You’re here, whining . . .,” “It’s about time you guys start being real Americans . . .”
Saying that I am not a “real American” is name calling, AshLIE.
Your post also has a lot of the “either/or” fallacy in it–”IF YOU WANT ACTION, THEN GO DO IT.” But wait, AshLIE, didn’t I pay taxes so that the gov’t can organize and do something on my behalf? Yes. And if you think paying taxes is “not doing anything,” I’ll gladly let you pay my taxes for me, since it requires no real effort, right?
I have a job that requires me to be in my office five days a week. I couldn’t run down to NO even if I wanted to, and I don’t want to, because I don’t know if I could really do any good or not.
Disaster relief requires study and management. That’s what we’re not getting from BushCo., in NO or in Iraq.
NoJoCo–”so we should censor Gail, right.” No. Nobody ever said that. Nobody even thinks that. This why I pick on you, man. Your only contributions to these threads is irritation.
IF VC isn’t calling for Gail to be censored, then what is this:
“I wonder if the school Gail is working for is aware of how anti American he is – I am sure they would have thought twice about inviting him here had they known. I hope there are no students being damaged by his narrow views. I dare Gail to write a letter to the Eagle spewing this garbage he has been in this blog and actually sign his name to it. He will be run out of Wichita and the states quicker than you can say “Rebulicans are hypocrites”!”
And Republican are obviously hypocrites if they disagree with VC.
Galahad, why do you feel the need to butt-in and answer questions asked for other posters? You need to learn to just STFU for once.
Hehehe, VC is error. Gail won’t be run out of Wichita or anywhere else, because her (his?) view is totally mainstream conservative.
Even if it wasn’t, Gail is protected by academic freedom implicit in the concept of tenure (even if she doesn’t have tenure herself).
VC wasn’t saying that Gail SHOULD be censored. He was saying that her ideas are unpopular and people would react.
You “straw manned” him, just like you always do.
Why don’t you take a side FOR or AGAINST Gail instead of muddying the waters with irrelevant attacks on your idea of what a poster MIGHT be saying?
Otherwise, it’s just a waste of bandwidth.
And STFU is awfully tough talk. Why don’t you take a couple of deep breaths and turn off Rush and Sean.
This is not intended as a call for a resignation.
But What are we paying for?
Isn’t it a sad commentary on bureaucracy which for lack of a better explanation seems to always be at odds with or at a loss of timely, effective common sense measures and procedures.
Why not Pre Crisis Management as opposed to Post Crisis Management?
Could it be that the nature of bureaucracy is doomed to failure if for no other sake than for an innate ability to become bogged down by an enamoring self preoccupation with procedures, theories and policies which by themselves serve nothing more than those whose jobs it is to formulate their charter responsibilities and the procedures and means to serve these ends.
In practice, the reality of Katrina has demonstrated the immense disparity between the two; bureaucracy’s resolve and its ability to respond in a timely manner to provide the badly needed effective fulfillment of its fundamental charter responsibilities.
Simply observed, more government procedure spells less decisive and less effective responses.
In view of the failure of 9-11 where in spite of knowing to a high level of probability that a terrorist attack was immanent, the system failed to move important information through to proper levels to process the available intel necessary for an appropriate response.
What is our Office of Homeland Security’s position in the aftermath of Katrina?
Wouldn’t a self assessment of their response make for interesting reading?
Recognition of Intel aside, we had the luxury and the opportunity and the advantage of time and advanced warning on our side regarding Katrina. We seemingly did not have this prior to 9-11. Yet we continue to demonstrate need for improvement. How much does common sense cost compared to the addition of more bureaucracy?
My only hope is that it will not be necessary to call for still more money and further bureaucracy than what I’ve been led to believe was supposed to be the answer and solution for the failures which led to 9-11.
All Security Charter’s responsibilities aside, don’t say to me “Show me the money.” Say to me instead, Show me the draft and I’ll show you the team. I am resolved. I will be prepared. I will be connected. Above all else, I am practiced, tested and able.” I will deliver or else you may fire and replace me!!!
Regards,Bill Landman
Bill, that’s exactly the problem with this administration. NOBODY gets fired for screwing up–they only get fired for disagreeing with the Liar-in-Chief.
The bureaucrats know that as long as they kiss Republican arse, they will have total job security and even get promoted–job PERFORMANCE is wholly irrelevant.
Exactly. If you’re a Bush crony and he blesses you with an upper class nickname (he calls the head of FEMA, ‘Brownie’), you’re in.
‘Meritocracy’ my ass.
Today on MSNBC, a reporter interviewed a professor at LSU, a Dr. Van Heerden. He said that he and his colleagues had been studying the possible effects of a hurricane and the possibility of the NO bowl flooding since 1998. They showed their findings a year ago in a large symposium that was attended by NO and Louisiana high government officials and FEMA personnel and a representative from the White House. He reported to them that 70% of the city and surrounding parishes would evacuate which would leave 300,000 people, mostly poor. They discussed evacuation procedures, which they thought would take 10 days and other problems with diseases. He said the Louisiana officials worked very well with him and implemented his suggestions into emergency plans. But FEMA and the White House walked away without lookin’ back.He showed his disgust with the fact that help should have come 2 days after the hurricane. He said the direct blame for any deaths that have occurred in the last few days and the deaths that will occur in the next weeks is on FEMA and the current administration.
Hey NoJoco! I do believe that I actually encouraged Gail the Hater to write to the editor of this paper. Backing up his/her hateful rhetoric with his/her name. How do you interpet that as me advocating for censorship?
And I have to say that I have no problem with Galahad speaking for me. I am a fan of his posts and we are definitely on the same page politically. Oh – btw – I am a girl. =0)
I think “Gail” is a phony.
Here’s the deal, I have a hard time when people are heartless enough to blame the residents of the towns hit by this tragedy. Many of the people are poor. They were most likely unable to get out because they simply did not have the means to do so.
They should be helped and helped quickly. Start the fingerpointing after people have been helped. This is the richest and strongest country in the world, there should be no excuses for treating this as the utmost priority.
(Spare me your political BS, I hate that game)
I KNOW Gail is a phony. “University professor and liberal” abroad. My ass. Gail is a most likely a fat mid manager at a Wal Mart……..or maybe the wife of one.
Fact: a real and credible threat existed.
Fact: the chief executive remained absent during the landfall and aftermath of that threat.
Fact: Civilian efforts were turned away by the few FEDS on the ground.
Fact: 300 billion for Iraq and the ‘war of the willing” 10.5 billion for the American victims of natural disaster.
Fact: despite protests of a “liberal media” it was only such media that finally motivated an administration that was either ignorantly, negligently, or willfully unresponsive to act.Fact: When action finally came, it came with photo ops for the President and elected officials of his party.
Defend bs bush all you like. A phony war didn’t get you thinking or asking questions. Why would Americans dying here at home do any different? Just get yourself an armband with the visage of bush. Strap it on and shout “stay the course!” Me and mine? We will help the survivors. We will inform them of the failure of the president and apologize for it. We will promise that it must never happen again and we will enlist them to make sure of that.
If there is any hope at all for America, this will become common knowledge: Republicans care about nothing but themselves and their money and power. Do not depend on them for anything that does not serve them and make you servants of them.
First of all, there is no way on earth that “Ashlie” is 16.
Second, I haven’t had this much fun at the expense of pseudo-”liberal” whackos in ages.
Third, nobody censors me. Nobody.
Fourth, the facts speak for themselves. Those who had the sense to leave the coast did leave. Those who didn’t have the sense to leave didn’t. Those few who couldn’t leave were failed by their local and state governments, who had plenty of buses and helicopters, BUT DID NOTHING.
Fifth, CF takes on the Hobbesian mantle and attempts to speak for all liberalism – defining it as (I paraphrase) one’s willingness to forego natural law in deference to a mega-government, with the understanding that the government will magically suspend and/or overcome all the laws of nature and wipe everybody’s bottom with soft baby wipes forever, Amen.
Hobbes, in other words, has re-invented the Garden of Eden; and atheists everywhere think he’s a genius.
What crap. Anyone who buys into the Hobbesian notion of liberalism is a raving lunatic. Honest, workable liberalism is nothing of the sort.
America is based on the very liberal ideas of individualism, natural rights, and limited government by consent of the governed. Anyone who gives up his natural rights to a government is a fool. Governments are buraucracies, not gods. That bears repeating.
GOVERNMENTS ARE BUREAUCRACIES, NOT GODS.
Put your trust in a bureaucracy and you will be sitting on your roof waiting for help forever.
P.S. — Sorry to disappoint you foul-mouthed, self-appointed pseudo-”liberals”, but my students and my Dean love me.
Because of all of the vitriol and name calling by the ‘compassionate democrats’ we seem to have drifted away from the original BLOG by our esteemed editor of the WE.
I thought it might be beneficial to re-visit the original and make a few observations in the light of recent reports. It seems the news lately supports my premise that most of these people that are dead or need help are basically stupid.
Let’s revsit Randy’s original BLOG:
“New Orleans response a disgrace”
The title was almost correct. let me rewrite it for complete accuracy; “New Orlean’s response a disgrace”
“What is happening in New Orleans is a national disgrace.”
No Randy, it is not a national disgrace, we now know it was failure of the local and state government to have an effective evacuation plan.
“I’m talking about the lack of prompt assistance to thousands and thousands of people who desperately need help.”
And exactly why was there “thousands of thousands” of people still in the path of the hurricane? No plan to evacuate. No leadership by the mayor of NO and the governor of La. They should have had the hospitals and rest homes evacuated. No plan. When the order to evacuate was finally made, almost half of the people had already left. The national guard (which belongs to the governor) should have been mobilized and in place before the order to evacuate to faciltate the evacuation of the infirmed and stupid. After the order was given, they could have been very effective in making the ones that could leave in their own vehicles leave and they could have forcefully put the ones that refused on their trucks. They could have used the hundreds of school buses available to remove the ones that had no other way. The reasons for the terrible loss of life after the storm is directly because of the lack of leadership of the mayor and governor before the storm. They needed a plan.
“This is a massive failure of emergency planning.”
Yes it is! Primary resposibility for NO is the mayor. Next is the governor. She had the authority to mobilize resources before the storm.
“The military and FEMA obviously didn’t plan or position themselves for the worst-case scenario, even though everyone knew days in advance that this was the Big One.”
Most of the victims of this storm were first guilty of civil disobedience because they made no attempt to leave. The military is not responsible for civil disobedience. The mayor and the governor are. FEMA is not responsible for civil disobedience, the local authorities are.”And now the situation is sliding out of control. Remind anyone else of Iraq?”
My dear Randy, the situation was never “in control”. The responsibility for this disasterous loss of life can be placed directly at the feet of the local authorities.
Very clever Randy, let’s make the Iraq war analogy. However, I strongly disagree with your premise there also. Iraq is not “sliding out of control” but that is a subject for another BLOG and inapropriate for this subject.
“Thousands stranded at the Convention Center have absolutely no help, and people are dying and being left on the ground. No wonder some of them are looting nearby stores for food and drink.”
Actually that is a lie. People are now having to risk their lives because of the people that went to the Convention Center instead of going North. These people are being helped. Interviews of most of these people indicate they could have left but didn’t. I have no problem with people in the face of such a disaster taking what they need to survive. How do you justify the fact that they hit the jewelry stores and electronic stores first?
“One man said, “I don’t treat my dog like that,” pointing to a dead woman in a wheelchair nearby. “I buried my dog.”
Again, the death of this woman is directly as a result of the mayor’s incompetance.
“He added: “You can do everything for other countries but you can’t do nothing for your own people.”
These people are a product of generations of “doing for your own people”. The populist programs initiated by Huey P Long and continued by every other governor of La since has produced generations of people dependent on the government. The local government let them down and now they are dead or dying.
“You can go overseas with the military but you can’t get them down here.”
The problem in NO is now the responsibility of the military only because of the incompetance of the local authorities and the stupidity of the people.
“President Bush has promised a rapid federal response to the disaster. For many, he’s already too late.”
How much more effective would the federal response be if the people that could have left and didn’t would have left when they could?
Using this disaster to score political points against the administration is disgusting. We need to find ways to respond the next time in a non-partisan way. The key to solving any problem is to define the problem accurately. To begin the process with the assumption that it is tha president’s fault and then look only at evidence that supports your assumption is a garantee that this disaster will happen again.
“Posted by Randy Scholfield”
Now again gentle people, before you start calling me heartless and having no soul, please note that I have commented only on Mr. Scholfields mindless left-wing ditribe against the administration. I have not said that the poor people in NO shouldn’t be aided. I have not said that the administration has no responsibility in the disasterous response in the aftermath of this tragedy. I merely have made a few observations as to why the response was hindered by incompetant local authorities and stupid people that made a conscious decision to stay in harms way.
I realize that finger pointing and finding blame are not really helpful while people are dying but since liberal nitwits and Bush haters like Randy started the finger pointing before the storm even began dying down, I think it is entirely appropriate to help with the direction they point.
As far as compassion goes, I have probably contributed more than most. I have probably pledged more than most. I don’t have to take none of your liberal crap.
Sincerely,
Hank
Gail–
You’ve convinced me! I agree totally that the US has turned away from rugged individualism and has become a welfare state.
We need to dismantle this welfare state. And we should start with the public university system, one of the most socialistic institutions going. 75 percent of the cost to run a university is borne by the taxpayers so that rugged individualists like you can teach a “full load” of six hours a week and suck up for gov’t grants.
Let’s all take Gail’s advice and stop the visiting professorships in which OUR TAX DOLLARS are lavished on non-citizens.
Thanks for pointing that out, Gail!
You are welcome.
Dear Gail,
I’m afraid Thomas Sowell is a little to logical and profound for the average liberal mind.
Absent the education to understand, they are reduced to calling him an Uncle Tom.
Mr Sowell cuts to the core of every thing they hold holy, public education and the government’s culture of building a dependent class. And on and on.
Hang in there dear, you are dealing with the left-wing nitwit fringe of our country.
Hank
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubt.”Bertrand Russell
Gail,
You wrote:
“Fifth, CF takes on the Hobbesian mantle and attempts to speak for all liberalism – defining it as (I paraphrase) one’s willingness to forego natural law in deference to a mega-government, with the understanding that the government will magically suspend and/or overcome all the laws of nature and wipe everybody’s bottom with soft baby wipes forever, Amen.
Hobbes, in other words, has re-invented the Garden of Eden; and atheists everywhere think he’s a genius.
What crap. Anyone who buys into the Hobbesian notion of liberalism is a raving lunatic. Honest, workable liberalism is nothing of the sort.
America is based on the very liberal ideas of individualism, natural rights, and limited government by consent of the governed. Governments are buraucracies, not gods. That bears repeating.
GOVERNMENTS ARE BUREAUCRACIES, NOT GODS.
Put your trust in a bureaucracy and you will be sitting on your roof waiting for help forever.”
********************************
Well, again, Gail commits a straw man fallacy and misrepresents my position. Rather than ’soft baby wipes’ administered by a loving and tender nanny state, my expectations of American liberalism come from the Declaration of Independence. The relevant passage reads:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
This passage stipulates the natural rights that human beings possess, and it ALSO stipulates the ‘just powers’ that belong to government as it functions to secure these rights. To the extent that government does so, it is legitimate–and must be obeyed. To the extent that it does not, it should be dissolved and reconstituted. Moreover, if individuals could do so on their own, there’d be no need for government. The fact that individuals NEED government to secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is precisely its justifying rationale.
Do you not think, Gail, that this document PRECISELY requires the transfer of a large measure of my natural right to the just power of the state? Do you not think, Gail, that rights secured by law subject me to responsibilities? If you do not, then you’re more of a libertarian than a liberal. I do not have the privilege to decide which limitation upon my natural rights I will and will not respect. By this document, I DO have the right along with my compatriots to ascertain when and how the government has failed to secure these rights, to reclaim them, and to use them to reconstitute the goverment.
When Gail talks as if rights don’t imply mutual responsibilites, and as if I remain the sole determiner of when my social obligations begin and end, her starting point is every bit as hypothetical and fictitious as is Hobbes’.
That’s right: fictitious. And get it straight, Gail: I’m no Hobbesian. But if one is writing about American constitutionality and liberalism, one has no choice but to operate within the conceptual framework of the social contract tradition, whether one draws on Hobbes, Locke, or Rousseau to do so. Gail attempts to redefine the scope and extent of ‘the consent of the goverened,’ and to read back into the tradition of American constitutionality more sovereignty for the individual than is there. This revisionism shows how far she is from how Americans themselves understand the relation between the individual and the government, and their mutual obligations.
But let’s do like Machiavelli, and abandon fictitious starting points as we think about liberalism and constitutionality. Use your damn head, Gail. Think about the historical conditions under which the Declaration was produced. Its intention was to assert the sovereignty of colonists (individuality), while providing a framework within which their mutual assistance would be possible (community). Between these two competing demands, the first was by far the more immediate. Without the assistance of others (read: government in a broad sense), life would simply not be possible. And the defense of individuality itself would be stillborn in the crib. As I read the document, community and individuality are at a minimum mutual conditions. So much for your second-rate, Objectivist endorsement of ‘individuality’ at all costs. And at a factual level, if the Declaration asserted the measure of individuality you want to read back into it, there would have been no constitutional process.
Gail’s formulation of the ‘recipe’ of liberalism is anachronistic and ideologically motivated to the extreme. Read more Jefferson and less Ayn Rand, Gail.
And Gail, my students and my Dean love ME, too.
Well, CF, you were the one who brought up Hobbes. Don’t blame me.
Your latest construct falls into the typical intellectual error that the liberal notion of a secular Garden of Eden (big daddy government) needn’t have to deal with messy reality.
Ome can sit in an ivory tower, quote the Declaration of Independence, and postulate liberal myths about the greatness of social contracts with government; but governments always become entrenched bureaucracies — the bigger they are, the more arthritic they become.
So one can hold philosphical liberalism in great esteem; but one is a fool for relying on bureaucracies for one’s personal safety. And one is a fool to ever expect a flawless nanny state froma bureaucracy.
If mine is an ideologically motivated and extreme position, I wonder who got to define the natural inclination to self – survival as an extreme. Seems rather central to life, actually.
No, CF, a reading of your posts suggests, instead, that your biases are ideologically motivated to the extreme, always negative, largely focused on hate for the administration, and liberally peppered with profanity.
Yes, you have a casual, ivory tower reading of the philosophies of recent centuries. Too bad you haven’t figured out why their theories and constructs don’t work in the real world.
A valiant effort, CF, but ultimately futile.
You’ve got the radical right-wing as typified by Gail and Hank who will say anything and grasp at any straw to maintain their self-serving selfishness.
They drive on tax payer funded roads, get treated at tax payer funded hospitals, educated at tax payer funded colleges, get federal price supports for the airplanes they build and the crops they grow and send the tax payer funded American military around the world to keep oil prices low for the Humvees they drive. Their golf courses are watered by tax payer built water works and their construction crews are manned by illegal aliens permitted under a business-friendly federal gov’t, their houses are fully protected by the police who don’t hesitate to go into their neighborhood, ditto for the fire brigade, but, by golly, THEY DID IT ALL BY DINT OF THEIR OWN EFFORT and they don’t owe society a damn thing.
Yeah, right.
Compounding the hypocrisy is that the two most vociferous (look it up, Hank) reactionaries both benefit far more than the average citizen from the U.S. taxpayer. Hank got a career, housing, meals, and subsidized martinis thanks to his stint in the Navy. And no doubt he’s still sucking gov’t teat by drawing a tax payer funded pension.
Meanwhile, Gail, as pointed out previously, makes a comfortable living in a grossly overpaid job “teaching” maybe 50 students a semester six hours a week for which he gets fully funded health care unlike about 40 million Americans. And he’s not even a US citizen.
Both of these inDUHviduals have nothing but contempt for the very government programs that puts their bread on the table.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Hank. Gasbag, thy name is Gail.
BTW, Hank, Bertrand Russell? Bertrand “Effing” RUSSELL?
The philosopher who was “best known in many circles as a result of his campaigns against the proliferation of nuclear weapons and against western involvement in the Vietnam War during the 1950s and 1960s. However, Russell’s social activism stretches back at least as far as 1910, when he published his Anti-Suffragist Anxieties, and to 1916, when he was convicted and fined in connection with anti-war protests during World War I. Following his conviction, he was also dismissed from his post at Trinity College, Cambridge. Two years later, he was convicted a second time.”
You, Hank, who have “absolute certainty” that the Earth is only 6,000 years old based on a religious creation myth are in no position to use that quote or quote that philosopher. This is a man who rejected just about everything you stand for and stood up for just about everything you say you hate.
Dear Galahad,
Yah, Bertrand Russell, I thought you’ld get a kick out of it! After all, he was a liberal hero! A traitor before it was cool to be a traitor!
I have absolute faith that Genisis is true. Absolute certainty is one of your follies.
By the way, hate is one of your qualities, name one thing I’ve ever said I hate.
Sincerely,
Hank Price
Okay, Hank, I thought you hated the Devil.
My bad . . .
Gail? I do not like having you in my country. I invite you to leave. Would that we met I’d help ya leave.
hank???? you never did properly document your oft touted military service. hank??? you are a ditto head. My book that makes ‘ya garbage.
I should not even have to address these idiots.
Blame the local authority? After the storm WHAT local authority? No infrastructure, no power, no communications, no order.
Bottomline is America under the leadership? of bush failed Americans. Every child that died of thirst, every needy senior, every body pulled out of an attic FOUR DAYS after bush failed to take HIS responsibility for the health and well being of Americans is laid squarely in his lap and the laps of his lackey short sighted mindless robot supporters.
As John Edwards said, “There are two Americas” Hank? Gail? I do not consider you Americans. Not in the America I would want anyway. Take your failed “president” and go away won’t you?
I cannot wait to see the next poll. I suspect bush will be at about the 27% of people who care not about America but only themselves.
Who was Kerry Edwards? Didn’t she lose the last big poll?
Are you Bush whackers ever going to say anything new or useful? Looks like it’s time for the same old Bush Rap again.
Gail is out of her depth here.
Gail argues sloppily. She sees what she wants to see, hears what she wants to hear, and deliberately misrepresents an argument when it is laid out before her. And then she shows her hand as the Bush apologist she is.
In other words, let’s hear it for the ‘intellectual tools’ of the Right.
So you object to the nanny state, Gail? Well, duh. Who doesn’t? Given what a reactionary you are, I’d be very interested to hear your views of privacy and ‘homeland security.’
The discussion was about liberalism, what it is and what it isn’t. You obviously have no historical understanding of its origins or founding conflicts, and it is actually YOUR own theory of government has no connection to current political reality.
‘Natural rights’ and ‘limited government?’ Give me a break, Gail. Ever read Carl Schmitt on the sovereign and the state of exception, Foucault on biopower, Haraway on cyborgs or ANYTHING by Hannah Arendt? Those are the operative political concepts of our time, not your anachronistic, pastoral, Jeffersonian fantasy.
When academics themselves trot out the ‘ivory tower’ criticism, it’s a good bet they’re sucking on the think tank teat. How about you, Gail?
Gail? I do not like having you in my country. I invite you to leave. Would that we met I’d help ya leave.
hank???? you never did properly document your oft touted military service. hank??? you are a ditto head. My book that makes ‘ya garbage.
I should not even have to address these idiots.
Blame the local authority? After the storm WHAT local authority? No infrastructure, no power, no communications, no order.
Bottomline is America under the leadership? of bush failed Americans. Every child that died of thirst, every needy senior, every body pulled out of an attic FOUR DAYS after bush failed to take HIS responsibility for the health and well being of Americans is laid squarely in his lap and the laps of his lackey short sighted mindless robot supporters.
As John Edwards said, “There are two Americas” Hank? Gail? I do not consider you Americans. Not in the America I would want anyway. Take your failed “president” and go away won’t you?
I cannot wait to see the next poll. I suspect bush will be at about the 27% of people who care not about America but only themselves.
There were many factors that made this such a disaster, from the breakdown of communication technology, the lack of planning at both the state and federal level, the cutbacks in FEMA, the people who could of evactuated but choose not to, the people who would have evacuated but didn’t have the means to, to the lack of maintenance on the levees. If you want to blame and point fingers, there are many directions you can go, hind sight is always 20/20. It’s time to quit bitching, roll up our sleeves and help in anyway we can. The one thing that embarrasses me about being an American is that we are the biggest bunch of whiners and complainers on this earth.
There were many factors that made this such a disaster, from the breakdown of communication technology, the lack of planning at both the state and federal level, the cutbacks in FEMA, the people who could of evactuated but choose not to, the people who would have evacuated but didn’t have the means to, to the lack of maintenance on the levees. If you want to blame and point fingers, there are many directions you can go, hind sight is always 20/20. It’s time to quit bitching, roll up our sleeves and help in anyway we can. The one thing that embarrasses me about being an American is that we are the biggest bunch of whiners and complainers on this earth.
J.R.–Hank is a slippery weasel who refuses to take responsibility for anything he posts (just look at the way he unknowingly posted Bertrand Russell and the said “I meant to do that”).
But having interacted with him for some months, I believe that he no doubt did serve in the Navy.
I agree thought that people who fake military service are really low, and we should be suspicious of these claims.
Hank is definitely not in that catagory though.
The rest of your post I totally agree with . . .
Right. Given the highly expectable and fully demonstrated inability of governments at all levels to tame the full fury of nature, critics first blame the administration for being unable to do the impossible. I think Ahmad has done a splendid job of showing their silly complaining for exactly what it is.
Then CF tries to intellectualize the issue with philosophical notions of governance that have failed wherever tried.
Having been called on that, he tells me I’m out of my depth and retreats to the comfort of his esoteric books, mumbling the names of philosophers who never picked up a sandag to strengthen a levee.
I may be out of CF’s narrow depth, but why go there? Intellectualizing the issue requires a set of assumptions that typically fail in the real world.
Of course, CF resents being identified as an intellectual in an ivory tower. Nevertheless, he has a fondness for impossibly impractical notions of governance that are so stupid that only an intellectual would believe them.
The liberalism that peaked in America 35 ears ago has long been on the wane. Even parts of Europe are pulling back from it. Desperate haters of conservatism have only the comforts of their musty books.
Gail does a passable job stringing together the usual right wing cliches. But coming from an academic, these posts are, well, an embarrassment. Somebody needs to go [back?] to grad school.
So, social contract theory has ‘failed wherever tried’?
Factually, Gail is wrong: states whose constitutional bases are contractarian have a pretty good track record. Gail might try actually READING the U.S. Constitution for an example, and actually STUDYING American and European history.
But why confuse Gail with the facts? He/she/it lacks the intellectual honesty to deal with evidence to the contrary. That makes Gail a name-calling troll.
Gail is a small dog, a whipped cur. He/she/it yaps fiercely until you get close enough to deliver a kick, and then runs away. Gail, like Ahmad, is an annoyance, and has failed to rise to the level of being a genuine opponent. What a letdown Gail is.
Gail’s hatred of thought is typical of conservatives and reactionaries. They detest anything that gets in the way of bowing down to sovereign power which, at this moment, takes the form of W. Still, it is astonishing to hear this kind of self-hatred coming from someone who purports to be an academic.
Even Plato, the arch-defender of the status quo, thought that intellect and judgment were the qualifications for political leadership. But I don’t expect that Gail has read much Plato–or, for that matter, much of anything else.
As a conservative ‘intellectual,’ the only permissible stance is to wear ignorance like a badge of honor as a strategy of discrediting those theorists with whom one disagrees. “Theory is dumb!” Sounds like Barbie, doesn’t it? “Math is hard!” Raw power, and not reason, is Gail’s God.
On the upside, this devotion to submission and the uncritical acceptance of power probably has helped Gail’s academic career immensely. No wonder Gail’s ‘Dean loves her/him/it!’
I’m wondering why it bothers Gail so much to have to confront a counter-narrative. I say this as the one in the discussion who actually knows something about political thought, rather than the one who trots out my ideology on demand without providing grounds for my views. Seriously. All Gail has done is regurgitate talking points.
While Gail’s ignorance is quite obvious, what’s more breathtaking is that here we see an academic taking the argumentative stance that knowledge is actually a liability. Wouldn’t Gail’s committee be ashamed if they knew!
Gail has no expertise in political philosophy–unless that’s what what MFA’s from UT Austin do instead of doing art.
As a PhD in Philosophy with an AOC (Area of Competence) in social and political, let me give Gail a bit of advice: don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.
Wait–my bad: that’s an MFA from Southwest Texas State.
Agreed, C.F., arguing with Jimmy and Hank and Gail is inevitably disappointing, as you noted. Hank can’t admit that Bush lied even when he’s presented with irrefutable proof of it.
It doesn’t seem to embarrass the erudite academic (Gail) in the least to throw in with virulent anti-intellectuals.
He makes no effort to explain how he can make his comfortable living on the taxpayer dollar while he inveighs against “liberalism” and the “welfare state.”
He dismisses centuries of scholarship with a simple insult and an ad homenim attack–”musty books, read by people in ivory towers.”
He claims that “everyone” is turning away from liberalism, but illustrates that with no real examples. He makes no attempt to explain how the liberal Clinton lowered the national debt, narrowed wealth inequality and the poverty rate, while the neo-con Bush has grown gov’t by 27 percent in his first three years, raised the nat’l debt to a historical high, increased wealth inequality, and raised the poverty rate four years in a row.
Hugo Chavez’s Venuzula has been so successful in raising the standard of living of the peones, that the neo-cons want him dead.
When Gail’s backed into a corner, he just throws up irrelevances such as “you’ve never thrown a sandbag,” which is wrong on so many levels, one hardly knows where to begin.
1. I personally worked as welder and was a member of the steelworkers’ union, so I know something about manual labor.
2. One can draw valid conclusions without having a direct experience of them, or I suppose Gail will argue that one need to go up with the space shuttle to see if the earth is round.
3. If you’re going to bash people for not having “hands on” experience, why not start with President AWOL and his neo-con pals? No one has had less real work experience than our current president and his cronies.
Oh, I forgot. They’re conservatives, they’re “special” and not subject to criticism like ordinary mortals.
Gail, you’ve got one helluva a scam going, dude. You ridicule and disdain academia, how it’s funded, and everything it stands for and it has been built upon, but you don’t stand on principle when they pass out the paychecks, do you?
What a complete and utter fraud you are!
Gail.
One of so many others who put the CON in “CONservative.”
I hate George BushYes, I really do,And if you like himThen I hate you, too.
I love to bitchAnd I love to moanEven when I soundLike a Move-On Drone.
My gawd they’s alreadyDrainin’ this swamp.Gotta find a new reasonTo shout and stomp.
Got our Ph and DsAnd our paid complainers.Almost as usefulAs a few profaners.
We’s so smartWe gots our AOC.All Out ComplainersThat’s what we be.
It just ain’t fair.No, it just ain’t fair.I hate BushAnd it just ain’t fair.
We ignore realityBy usin’ our flossify.They gotta know how smart we were.Call ‘em names like “dog” and “cur”.
Complaints ‘R Us,We love our cryers.We call Bushies losers.We call ‘em all liars.
Don’t got no fix.Got no solution.Just a bunch of bitchin’,From the loony institution.
I hate George BushYes, I really do,And if you like himThen I hate you, too.
I thought I was well spoken. There are so many better spoken than me. Kudos to Galahad and CF
hank is what he is, a self invented soldier in the ditto head army (or navy)
Gail? I don’t know what that creature is. He she it spoke on this or some other blog (forgive, I read and post many) that he she it would stand on the Kansas border and oppose the “invasion” of survivors of Katrina. But Gail posts that hesheit is a foreign national. One wonders just where Gails stake is in Gails defense of the Kansas border. I said it before I will say it again. Gail? whoever or whatever you are you are not welcome here. On a blog I can only type that. Would that we met I would express it more physically.
Why oh why do I let conservative idiots “mis direct” me?
The point is this. Americans died of thirst and lack of medical care. They died this way within tens of miles from the airconditioned well fed 21st century American conditions of life. They died so because others acted too late. The top appointed official in charge of such matters did not even KNOW that 30,000 Americans existed in lower than 3rd world conditions. And in that yes, response to the crisis in new Orleans was and is a disgrace.
Hey, Ahmad–I like your new name better than the old one.
Liar.
Complaints ‘R Us,We love our cryers.We call Bushies losers.We call ‘em all liars.
Got mis-directedBy someone’s rhymeGot no ideas,Just bitchin’time.
Don’t got no fix.Got no solution.Just a bunch of bitchin’From the loony institution.
Say it loud–He’s ign’t & proud!
When I left for vacation on Wednesday Bush had signed the papers to make it faster to get emergency aid to the people on August 27th. On September 1st they had just started getting food and water to many of the refugees. I was shocked it could take this long.Here’s a thought for all the people who are quick to left their bias and anger at their fellow men make them say incredible hateful things here about people who need help right now.Many of the people who had the money to leave town share something in common with you. They never believed they would find themselves homeless and in need of aid. They are having a rude awakening. One day you could very well get yours as well. After all we do live in Tornado alley.
By law, a governor has to request federal disaster assistance from military units (except for the Coast Guard).
That usually happens very quickly; but in this case, the president first had to explain to the governor of Lousiana how to be a governor.
She refused.
He persisted, but she delayed for several days. It wasn’t until Thursday, 3 days after the storm hit, that she announced her request for National Guard troops.
The Wisconsin governor took the unprecedented step of declaring a disaster in another state (Lousiana) in order to activate his Guard.
“This was the first time a governor ever declared a natural disaster in another state and activated to that other state,” said Gov. Jim Doyle, who issued his order Wednesday.
Wednesday! And the Louisiana governor had still not asked for nor allowed the Guard into her state.=================================From CNN:New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin praised President Bush on Monday [Labor Day]- and charged that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco had delayed federal rescue efforts….
…Nagin had harsh words for his state’s leaders, telling CNN: “What the state was doing, I don’t frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn’t adequate.”=================================
Okay, I looked over Gail’s posts, and what he/she says don’t add up.
Supposedly this inDUHvidual is a non-white, visiting professor from overseas. While this “professor” seems to have no familiarity with the academic canon, s/he is intimately acquainted syndicated columnists like Thomas “Uncle Tom” Sowell.
Furthermore, this inDUHvidual makes not a single error typical of a non-native English speaker, uses idiomatic expressions better than most native English speakers and seems to know a lot about American football, which is only really popular in the United States.
This person is not who they say they are . . .
Judging from Gail’s silence, I’d say my arrow hit its mark.
You got it wrong again, Galahad; but if I tell you any more, your obsessive, stalking, time-wasting heart will show up on my doorstep; so no more hints.
I can assure you that I won’t spent a second of my time scrutinizing your posts to “prove” that you are not Sir Galahad. Duh.
It is more than a little ironic, and more than a little hypocritical, that when a black man escapes from the liberal plantation, liberals unite to denounce him as an “Uncle Tom.”
You show yourself for the deeply cynical bigot you are with your repeated use of that remark, Galahad.
Thomas Sowell graduated Magna cum Laude from Harvard, which is a tad better than you and your dull-arrowed hero, CF, can say.
Even better, Dr. Sowell writes in an accessible way. He doesn’t retreat behind obscure, esoteric, and mostly irrelevant tomes to throw inscrutible rocks at the general public, nor foolishly brandish his degrees as proof of his superiority. In short, he is not a liberal, elitist snob.
But, of course, he has exposed a great many fraudulent liberal scams for what they are; and has convincingly proved how liberal social engineering has grievously hurt, not helped, black America.
Of course, it would be bad for the victim industry so carefully cultivated by the left if he were allowed to go unpunished for telling the truth. So, the liberal elite have closed ranks against him. What would rich liberals like Kerry Edwards Kennedy Jackson, etc. do without a critical mass of victims to exploit?
Yes, you and your friends love to spout high-minded theories and knock down strawmen, but you never get the point. Intellectuals never make it to the top in industry; and they don’t succeed at all in politics, either. There’s a reason for that. The political will to implement ivory tower schemes isn’t there. Never will be.
I know, you don’t agree, or even understand. That’s OK. I had no delusions about changing your mind. You may now proceed with your next rant.
Gail,
You’re saying Democrats would rather cultivate a class of black underlings than win elections? Sounds like something dreamed up by an academic–Thomas Sowell–who’s well-insulated from reality.
Supporting the ‘victim industry’ hasn’t exactly been a great source of Democratic victories over the last thirty-five years, now has it Gail?
To the contrary, it has consistently eroded power on the Left to politically support African-Americans. And yet we go on doing it. So, are you saying, finally, that being the master means so much to us that we sacrifice all possibilty of political gain?
Do you realize how stupid this sounds?
It’s just funny to see you accuse me and Galahad of setting up ’straw men’ when your entire argumentative ’strategy’ is nothing more than an Ad Hominem argument against academics. ‘I don’t have to listen to their arguments or debate with them, because they’re isolated from reality!’ How juvenile. And when someone has NO ARGUMENTS and KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT WHICH SHE SPEAKS, what remains but to attack the person rather than their arguments.
For you to tout Sowell as something like a regular guy and man of the people–priceless! He’s as big an apologist and a lapdog for institutional power as they come. Then you attempt to cow me by brandishing his degree from Harvard. And I, CF, am the elitist???
So again, we’re back in Gail’s Wingnut Bizarro world, where ideology alone qualifies one to speak. How politically correct– in a fascist kind of way.
Heh, I’m not a stalker, Gail, so you can relieve yourself of that fear.
Tracking people down and hurting them is a conservative tactic, not a liberal one. We believe in free speech, remember?
I’m just trying to figure out where you’re coming from, literally and figuratively.
BTW, I’ve lived in five countries outside the US over the years, so among my many faults, “bigot” is not one of them, heh.
People I know from other countries, even Canada and England, do not have such an intimate knowledge of America’s really weird blend of religious kookiness, American exceptionalism, and social darwinism that is American conservatism today and which you exhibit so blithely.
I’m just wondering where you picked this up as a non-American. Europeans and even Asians are much more likely to know Noam Chomsky than Thomas Sowell.
You’re a mystery . . .
Gail–send me an e-mail. My address is hot.
I really want to know how an international academic becomes a ditto-head.
Galahad
Gail writes, “he has a fondness for impossibly impractical notions of governance that are so stupid that only an intellectual would believe them.”
This is a uniquely American saying–”something so stupid only an intellectual would believe it.” I’ve never heard anything close to this in my many years abroad, because other cultures generally value education and erudition more than we do in this country, or at least they don’t openly ridicule it. The pride that anti-intellectuals take in their willful ignorance is a uniquely American phenomenom. In Arabia or Israel, you might find something approaching it but only in the context of a competing religious dogma.
I just can’t believe a foreign academic would say this–most of them wouldn’t even be AWARE of such a notion.
You may be an academic. You may be technically from another country. But you’ve spent enough time here from an early age that for all practical purposes you’re American.
That’s the only explanation unless you’re just totally lying.
Also, in your first post you talk about “our” tax dollars. “Our,” Gail? When I lived in Malaysia, I didn’t much give a rip what they spent my tax dollars on . . .
But you’re not a stalker.
No, Gail, I’m not a liar.
Which is what I’m accusing you of.
Liar.
Okay, I did some checking. Gail is absolutely not a “non-white visiting scholar from overseas.”
This is a great relief to me, as someone who holds our higher education system in high regard.
In fact, the university system may be the biggest defense against fascism our country has.
Why don’t you make up a little rhyme about that, Ahmad . . .
Academic canon – oh, wow! Now we know what you guys shoot your bull shit from?
The truth is out!
Well, all you a-holes, you’re damned right I blame the “victims”. But I blame you, too, for your holier-than thou attitude about your idiotic enabling behaviors.
40 years of welfare and Great Society, but all it takes is one hurricane to unearth so many of your failures that all you can do is trip all over yourselves.
You blame the administration and anyone who thinks people need to be taught responsibility by making them deal with the consequences of their choices.
You want to keep propping people up with the old handouts game, never doing anything to actually raise people up for good,
You wimpy bastards.
By the way, Galahad is in no position to know what I am or who I am. He, by the way, has changed his name a few times, and tends to post in a “swarm” wth CF and Tracy. Very telling. His original posting name in these blogs was Gary Calles.