Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ office issued a statement last week denying it has any authority over Kansas Department of Corrections manager Margie Phelps for her hate group’s off-hours picketing of U.S. soldiers’ funerals. The statement read: “Whether or not we agree with an employee’s personal choices, we cannot punish them for their personal behavior or political beliefs exercised outside the workplace if those actions do not impact workplace activity.”
What if we learn that a top aide to the governor, on off-hours, is a practicing member of the Ku Klux Klan and picketing the funerals of blacks? Would the governor simply issue a statement saying he had a right to free speech? You can bet he’d lose his job or be transferred to the mailroom so fast it would make your head spin.
An Eagle reader asked: What if Phelps was Muslim American, and going around blessing IEDs and the killing of our troops? She’d probably be in Guantanamo, under interrogation.
Want to tell the governor what you think of Margie Phelps representing you as a state employee? E-mail her office at governor@state.ks.us.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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39 Comments
E-mailed to the governor:This is a Democratic household, but we think the governor’s stand on Margie Phelps’s behavior regarding soldiers’ funerals is both ill-conceived and cowardly. Margie Phelps’s behavior “in private” (though her protests are IN PUBLIC) reflects on her job as a Dept of Corrections official. Mrs. Phelps is sending mixed messages to the prison population that it is OK to be disruptive—something that we thought that the prison authorities seek to discourage among inmates. Furthermore, Margie Phelps is teaching inmates, by her example, that what is otherwise held as sacred and private by our (and every) society is inconsequential, and that such behavior will be tolerated. Phelps is showing them that there are no consequences, after all, to being antisocial in a venue where such behavior is a sacrilege. Lastly, Margie Phelps is exemplifying the worst traits of leadership and authority both as a public official and as a pastor’s wife, and her position stands in antithesis to everything for which Christianity really stands. And the governor is enabling Phelps by taking an “I-can’t-do-anything-about-it” approach.
The state needed to run a mental exam on Margie. The whole Phelps family is way off bubble. Heck just blame it on genetics and that way the state won’t have to face a discrimination suit.
Margie Phelps is actually a lawyer. She was at WSU once and a fellow student ask why she hated homosexuals so much, she responded “I don’t hate homosexuals, God hates them!”
I couldn’t believe it. They justify their interpretation of God’s thoughts and action as their own to justify their behavior and activity. Terrorist do the same.
It is scary! But! Saying that, I agree with Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ office on this one. What people do off work hours and legal is their business. No matter if it is Phelps organization, KKK, or Nation of Islam. They shouldn’t be fired or demoted for who they are. If they do their job, then thats all there is to it. You don’t have to agree with what they do, but it is their right.
I once worked with people who were card carrying members of the KKK, or Church of God or whatever they call it now. People talk about it in shop talk and it made people feel a bit uncomfortable knowing about it, but these people worked hard and never spoke about how they felt or anything about their membership and activities at work.
Did they really do anything wrong or illegal by believing what they do? Should their be a tolerance of beliefs, even if it is politically and socially unpopular?
If we go that route of demoting or firing people for their legal political actions off work, then we are in big trouble. You can easily start doing this to people who are Liberals or Republicans. Whatever happend to EEO?
From their website:Discriminatory practices under these laws also include:
harassment on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability, or age;
retaliation against an individual for filing a charge of discrimination, participating in an investigation, or opposing discriminatory practices;
employment decisions based on stereotypes or assumptions about the abilities, traits, or performance of individuals of a certain sex, race, age, religion, or ethnic group, or individuals with disabilities;
and denying employment opportunities to a person because of marriage to, or association with, an individual of a particular race, religion, national origin, or an individual with a disability.
Title VII also prohibits discrimination because of participation in schools or places of worship associated with a particular racial, ethnic, or religious group.
I don’t agree with a thing that the Phelps cult believes or does but I agree with the Governor on this one. She is on her own time and not directly linking herslef to state government (in fact, I bet many didn’t even know she worked for the state until the Eagle kept printing it over and over and over). I may not agree with what she has to say but I will support her first amendment rights to say it. If we start canning Phelps for what she beleives and has to say, where do we start? Do we let the government fire every state worker who says or does something off hours that they don’t agree with?
“We don’t live in Communist Russia, do we, Danny?” Chevy Chase’s famous line in “Caddyshack” while sinking putts from forty feet.
Conservatives want freedom to mean the right to say what they believe and the right to make everybody else shut up. That’s not how the first amendment works.
As long as Marge Phelps breaks no law, she should be able to keep her gov’t job. She has a constitutional right to public protest, just like I have the right to publicly protest against her.
If she belonged to the KKK and protested in a white sheet, that too would be constitutionally protected speech (with some restrictions on fomenting violence if applicable).
Freedom is not for sissies. There is no freedom unless we as a society are willing to endure freedom for others to express opinions that we vehementally disagree with.
Sorry guys, I’m emailing the gov on this one. She may be able to keep her job, but that doesn’t mean we can’t try to make her as uncomfortable as possible. Her bullying has hurt a lot of people, it’s long overdue that she get some of her own medicine.
These are the questions that need to be answered:Is she fulfilling the duties of her job?Do her personal views have negative affects on the people she works for and with?
Her personal views and activities stay within the law. The Phelps know the law and every loophole therein. Unfortunately, there is no way to punish them for what they do.
One way to thwart them would be to cut down on the publicity they receive. Another is for Christians to tell of the love God has for everyone.
An employee’s private life can’t conflict with a public job? One of the stories in the news on CNN 7/27: “Firefighter who married captain’s daughter fired”http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/27/firefighter.groom.ap/index.html
So Randy, you were ok with this?
Moulton woman says she lost job for sporting Kerry sticker on carhttp://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/040912/sticker.shtml
This was a private business, so they have much more leeway than the government, but the principle is the same.
Civil service laws are designed to protect non-political workers from being fired for non-work related reasons (this doesn’t apply to appointees, such as the Governor’s staff, so your KKK reference doesn’t apply.)
Would it be ok for a Republican governor to fire every single Democrat in state government, or vice versa?
Or why stop at politics? Why not fire everybody in government who doesn’t go to a church you approve?
We may despise the Phelpses and everything they stand for, but we cannot get into a situation where government leaders can fire anyone who does something on their private time that those leaders don’t like.
Besides, if Margie Phelps was fired, she’d just sue the state and get more money than she could ever get from her salary, and get more attention (which is what the Phelpses are really after) than the Eagle is already giving her.
I told you that the “War on Terror” was a farce.
http://csmonitor.com/2005/0727/dailyUpdate.html
Margie PhelpsDirector of Release PlanningKS Dept of Corrections785.296.3128margiep@kdoc.dc.state.ks.us900 SW Jackson, 4th Floor, LSOBTopeka, KS 66612-1284
I was mistaken. Pastor’s DAUGHTER. But mistaken only to that extent.
The sad, violent, hateful Phelps family history as available on the Internet.
http://www.godhateshomophobes.com/homphelps.html
Hey,What a person does on their own time their business, but when you’re as perverted and paranoid as the Phelps family is, her promises to keep her opinions out of her workplace seem disingenuous, given that her job requires that she be fair to both gay and straight inmates. She needs to resign! Actually, she needs to be ridden out of the state on a rail before her stink infests the rest of the state, but I suppose her resignation will have to do.
Maybe we could get the republicans in congress together and have them pass a special law to adress the Phelpses, and then get the president out of bed in the middle of the night to sign it.
What?
You say that’s already been done?
DRAT!
Good one, Hammer! Maybe this time it would work!
DO NOT advocate for Marge? Phelps to be fired! Don’t do it. Also, no matter how much you might want to, DO NOT assault in any way these beknighted followers of Phelps if you encounter them. That is what these folks WANT! Fire marge phelps and they will sue. Attack one of these idiots and they will sue. And they will use the financial gain to only further their sick, megla-maniachal, twisted cause.Maybe this is one case where the left and right could come together on something. I place the responsibility for making this happen on the right. The Phelp’s are your folks to the extreme. All should agree and form a plan to deal with these people short of giving them the actionable confrontation they want.Work together left and right, plan to confront these people with derisive laughter. When they protest at a funeral, surround them with signs or sheets on polls so that they are hidden from the grieving family. Shun them.
While I think that Marge shouldn’t be fired for her personal views. It is her actions that cause harm. So rather than call for her to fired I think we should do everthing we possibly can do to make that vile bitch’s life miserable(within the law of course.) Use the personal info Moose provided. Call her office and tell what vile worthless bitch she is. If she gets lippy file a complaint with her boss. Spam her Email with porn, gay porn would be poetic. Send lots of anoymounous hate mail to her office. Forward her personal info to every VFW, Veteran organtizion you find. Make her job miserable and maybe she will quit. our taxpayer dollars pay her salary, that she uses for her twisted agenda.
all americans are entitled to free speech… but inciting terrorism is no longer tolerated the phelps site godhatesamerica.com should be considered as incitingterrorism and the real question is why the us government is tolerating this… the FBI lists themas a hate group but it must be ok by the govt. to allow christians to inciting violence, and only muslims are subject to arrest for saying the same things. I would feel better about the war on terrorism if it is applied to all.
Her brother Fred Jr also works for the state I want to know who the retard that hired them is. It no secert that the Phelps family are loons. So somebody is to stupid to do a background check or a family friend. You can’t get a job at most places it you them your a member of a Hate-Group.
Actually the information on Marge Phelps is public, not personal, available at several websites on the Web–and, of course, through the Kansas government. I guess Margie doesn’t Blog.
Oh, and this is the kind of stuff Margie writes as the manager of the church business–a flyer thanking God for the people killed in the tsunami. Twisted faith.http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/westboro_tsunami_statement_1230.phpfrom a GOOGLE search for “Margie Phelps”
The real question is Has her personal interests been a factor in her job? Has anyone looked into it? What do the records say?Put together the facts, then take the appropriate steps. It’s hard to believe that she can have such a vindictive personality in her private life and it not bleed over into her professional life.I’ve always wondered why christians have hardly ever been classified as terrorist organisations.
Sum1 said:”I’ve always wondered why christians have hardly ever been classified as terrorist organisations.”
And I have always wondered why people say stupid things like ole Sum1.
Hey Sum1,Haven’t you noticed? Terrorists are always on the other side. Our side consists only of freedom fighters!
As I stated earlier, the Phelps’s are the children of the RIGHT. It is THEIR responsibilty to rein them in. I see no left wing groups prostesting at soldier funerals. I see no left wing groups proclaiming a “divinely inspired” message of hate.The Phelps’s should be denounced loudly and publically by each and every division of the christian church.
NoJoCo, the Phelp’s are as close to any domestic terriorist group I’ve seen. How are they different than the KKK? What’s the difference between burning a cross in someone’s yard and picketing someone’s funeral? Both claim to be Christian but use their “faith” as a weapon to bully and hurt people. The Westboro Baptist church should lose it’s tax exempt status and the Phelps’s should be lumped in the same group as the KKK.
Homosexual activists are as much of a hate group as the Phelps.
It states on the Department of Corrections website that you CANNOT have a felony conviction or domestic battery conviction and work for the State.
http://docnet.dc.state.ks.us/employment/employment.html#minimum
However, In 2004 Margie Phelps and her son Jacob were arrested for trespassing, disorderly conduct, and failure to obey after disregarding a police officer’s order that they were not allowed to enter a company’s private property with chairs and stand on them with an upside down flag and a picket sign.
Also, In a 1994 interview, WBC members Timothy and Jonathan Phelps (sons of Fred Phelps) admitted to beating their wives and children as a means of discipline and “keeping them in line.”
I’m sure if you looked hard enough you could find similar charges against Fred Jr.
Damoon,Sum1 said:”I’ve always wondered why christians have hardly ever been classified as terrorist organisations.”
First of all, I am a Christian. Sum’s blanket statement includes me.I see that statement as being irresponsible and stupid. It is insulting to me and other Christians.
Christianity revolves around forgiveness, love and hope. Neither the KKK and The Phelps represent Christianity. The KKK should be listed as a terrorist organization. They have murdered and done evil acts in the name of hate. The Phelps are doing BAD things under the guise of Christianity. Are they terrorists? I guess it depends on your definition of “terrorist”.
What the Phelps are doing is detestable. It is far from what Christ taught.
Reading the blogs and the opinions posted in the Eagle, it certainly makes one ponder why the left and its constant preaching of tolerance are so intolerant. They, the left, constantly bash the President because they disagree with him and if anyone disagrees with the left, they never state rational arguments but engage only in personal attacks.
Homosexuallity is a deviant and perverted behavior chosen by the individual. No empirical medical evidence or test have proven otherwise. Physchological disorder, perhaps, but not a medical or genetic condition. There is no difference with the person that chooses to engage in homosexual activity than a person that chooses to be a racist, bigot, thief, rapist, spouse abuser, child molester etc. All chosen and unacceptable behavior and all must endure the consequences of their choice.
WS, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. First, explain to me how “activists homosexuals” are a “hate group”. Second, there ARE scientific studies that suggest sexual perference is biologically based. Third, there is a no comparison between someone who is a sexual predator and someone who is gay. It’s true that sexual behavior is a choice, but sexual preference is not. You say being homosexual is a choice, at what time in your life did you feel attracted to both sexes, but decided to be straight?
WS, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. First, explain to me how “activists homosexuals” are a “hate group”. Second, there ARE scientific studies that suggest sexual perference is biologically based. Third, there is a no comparison between someone who is a sexual predator and someone who is gay. It’s true that sexual behavior is a choice, but sexual preference is not. You say being homosexual is a choice, at what time in your life did you feel attracted to both sexes, but decided to be straight?
Gee Shemp,You say: “They, the left, constantly bash the President because they disagree with him and if anyone disagrees with the left, they never state rational arguments but engage only in personal attacks.”Just a few years ago, it was the right-wingers with Whitewater, and all the attendant wild accusations, who were getting awfully irrational and personal! Can’t take your own medicine?
Hey Damoon,Agreed, on all counts!
Damoon,State your medical evidence. To better clarify that, state your evidence that has been accepted the the AMA or any medical journal. Not the fabrication of tests bought and paid for by homosexual lobbyists. In the case of a sexual predator they do it from choice also; not to compare the legallity of the behavior.
To answer the second part of you statement; never.
Hey Shemp,State your evidence that sexual orientation is a choice! Especially considering that you say you were never offered that choice, how do you know anybody else was?
Shemp, I asked you when you decided to be straight. Are you saying that you’re asexual?
Shemp, there are many publications on the issue of sexual orientation. Here are just two, after you read these, I’ll give you some more.Sexual Orientation: Toward Biological Understanding by L. Ellis andBiologic Theories of Homosexuality by RC Pillard.I’m glad you’re interested in learning more about sexual orientation. Understanding is the key in overcoming your homophobia.