Former Sen. John Danforth, R-Mo., an Episcopal minister, wrote an interesting commentary for The New York Times discussing the differing positions of moderate and conservative Christians.
“It is important for those of us who are sometimes called moderates to make the case that we, too, have strongly held Christian convictions, that we speak from the depths of our beliefs, and that our approach to politics is at least as faithful as that of those who are more conservative. Our difference concerns the extent to which government should, or even can, translate religious beliefs into the laws of the state,” he wrote.
Let’s hope that others follow his advice and make that case more often.
Posted by Melissa Cooley
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20 Comments
Thanks for the John Danforth opinion piece from the NY Times.
As a non-christian, it seems to me that moderate christians have allowed the radicals to speak for all christians. So, either they agree with the fundies or they’re afraid of them. In either case, the backlash that’s headed for the radicals will probably take the moderates out too, unless they reclaim the identity of christianity from those who want to use it for their own political ends!
The problem is that there is no such thing as Conservative and Moderate Christians.
There are those Christians who follow Gods word and those who do not.
Yes, Jesus preached of love. We “Conservative” Christians believe whole heartedly in that message.
The problem is that there are more things spoken of than just love in the New Testament. You cant simply pick and choose the things that you want to follow.
Instead of trying to turn this into a “Moderate” vs. “Conservative” debate, why dont we look at what the scripture says and quit with the petty labeling.
“You cant simply pick and choose the things that you want to follow.”
Interesting that a conservative Christian would mention that.
You can’t simply pick and choose?
Of course you can, and do! How many of you kill your children when they curse at you? Anybody that followed to the letter everything the bible told them to do would either be in prison or the state hospital! One way or another, all of you decide for yourselves what scripture means and how, or if, you follow it. Why do you think there are so many different sects? No two people agree on any interpretation of the bible, yet each of you is so damn sure you are right!
One of the primary reasons we separated religion from government is that during colonial times, most of the various sects were attempting to kill off all the others! It’s almost amusing that the baptists, who were the ones who pushed hardest for a secular government, are now the most bent on destroying it.
The arrogance and intolerance of each splinter group for the others will most likely be the destruction of the whole. I just wish you weren’t so hell-bent on taking the rest of us with you!
As a Christian, I have an aversion to seeing my countrymen’s pitiful pleadings from the burning floors of the World Trade Center, an aversion to watching them jump to their deaths instead of waiting to burn to death, and an aversion to seeing my countrymen’s heads sawed off by terrorist thugs. To respond to that kind of barbarity with an olive branch is naive, iresponsible, and — most importantly — an affront to Christian justice.
Christian justice? Oh surely Christ would have none of that? It’s so…it’s so… crude and messy. Can’t we all just get along?
No, obviously. Not as long as dictators get a pass from secularized nations and the gloriously secular UN.
Someone mentioned to me to offer my left cheek should someone slap the other in anger. That was indeed the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. With me it’s always better “an eye for an eye.”
Well Jed,
You have shown how little you know about the bible or Christianity.
Which is why I said lets look at what the scritpure says.
Give me examples instead of your rhetoric against Christianity and we can talk.
There are clear reasons why what you are saying about scripture is wrong.
Hey Nathan,
I really don’t care what scripture says- and I have read the Bible, along with the Koran, the Talmud and the Vedas- what I do is watch the people who do and see if they really follow it! From the moment the followers of “The Prince of Peace” gained political power, they’ve used it in a non-stop bloodbath, killing each other and anyone else they could lay hands on! If that’s the effect of scripture, it doesn’t impress me.
Jed,
You may have read the Bible, but you dont understand context.
I can obivoulsy tell that you dont care what the scripture says because you dont care to speak about it in truth.
Hey Nathan,
Of course I understand context. I don’t care about scripture because until it’s put into action, it’s just so many words on a page. So far, all it’s been used for is a club to beat people up! I’ve known a lot of people of a lot of different religious persuasions. Most of them have been good people, because I tend to avoid the ones who aren’t, but they would be good people regardless of their faith. Likewise, the religious bastards would be bastards no matter what gang they belonged to.
You people like to talk about how your lives have been changed by your religion, but from the outside, you certainly don’t seem to have improved! So, I ask again, what use is scripture, except as a weapon?
Jed,
When you start showing me examples of what it is you are saying then we can have a discussion.
I dont see the scripture being used as a weapon. I dont see Christianity full of a bunch of “bastards.”
I must say that your use of foul language does nothing to further this conversation in a healthy way.
Hey Nathan,
You want examples? they’re all around you! Even the most condensed catalogue would take volumes. But you want one, so I’ll give you one! Last week, a friend of mine was leaving his apartment when a group of teenagers from a neighborhood church stopped him and told him God didn’t want fags around, and proceeded to beat him unconscious, smashed his laptop and took his billfold. The detective (not Wichita PD) made it pretty clear to him that they had no interest in investigating what he called a nuisance complaint. So they’re releasing him from the hospital tomorrow, and he’s afraid to go home.
Now I can just hear you saying, well, he just got what he deserved, or they weren’t real christians, or some other lame excuse, but the truth is that preachers give permission for that kind of crap every day!
You complained about my language, but I call it like I see it, and what you’ve heard is as mild as I can, in good conscience, make it, in light of your actions! Some of you have offered to shoot me, and others have made anonymous calls to the effect that if I don’t shut up, I’ll find a bomb on my porch. If that’s christian love, you can keep it!
Time Out, both of you! My turn to promote secular theocracy!
Jed,
Your examples have nothing to do with scripture or Christianity.
Your examples are of people who do not follow the scripture or what Christ taught.
Jed, Nathan,
Religion is not the problem, the lazy followers and unscrupulous preachers are the parasites. Islamists perverted the call for jihad to kill those they perceived to be ungodly, putting blemishes on innocent Muslim bystanders who want nothing than to make a decent living. Hindu fundamentalists often incite violence against fellow Indian Muslims, and vice versa. Different Christian sects have condemned, and on occasions slaughtered, each other in the name of God. THIS IS MADNESS. All are just power grab in the end.
When it comes to the interpreting holy writings, it is a sensitive matter indeed. One needs to approach it with humility and desire to learn. Often this means to question the text itself, to try to read between the lines, and not just swallowing whole what others teach. Over the years culture changes. Thus, while the kernel of the teachings stay constant, the context may have been altered, requiring different approach. Translations don’t make things easier either. Languages are often the yardstick of a culture, and literal translations can produce confusion, and contradiction. For example, “out of sight, out of mind,” can accidentally be read as “invisible insanity.” Anyway, my read of history is crowded with religion being misused by the powers of the day to advance their political agenda. After all, how can your average Joe argue with something that is “ordained from the Heavens”? This is what I believe Jed refers to as Scriptures being a weapon, to instill fear in friends and foes alike.
Jed, I am terribly sorry about your friend. I had been in similar situation before, and I was lucky that passers-by intervened with my attackers. It was on my birthday too! A note though, a strong language can be a powerful tool. But a undiscriminating use of it may sway people away from your side.
Nathan, there are different takes on the Bible. All basically agree on the goodness of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. The devil’s in the details. Different churches emphasize different aspect of the Bible. So there are “Moderates” and there are “Conservatives”, and also “Liberals”, no matter how you try to deny it. Besides, have you really try to follow the Bible to the letter?
Roo
I never said it had anything to do with what Christ taught! It has everything to do with what you christians teach every day. Your mistake is the assumption that Christ has something to do with the street gang christianity became 1700 years ago. Get real!
Hi Roo,
I appreciate your moderation and your deeply human decency. If more of you had spoken the way you have, maybe things would have come out better.
Unfortunately, the moderates have let radicals set the agenda for so many centuries that anything Christ may have been about is irretrievably lost.
What you worship is a fictional character, based loosely on the very little bit that is known about a first-century Jewish holy man named Yeshua ben Yousef, adapted, arranged and reinvented by countless preachers to fit countless political and financial agendas. Whether he was the Messiah or not is a moot question- he doesn’t exist, at least on this earth anymore, thanks to christianity. Sorry!
Jed,
When you can form a rational argument agaisnt Christianity I will be here…
Nathan,
You may be there, but you’ll never recognize or understand one. You’ve already handed your thinking machinery over to others.
Wish you and I could talk,
but that’s just not possible now.
Sorry to have wasted your time.