OK, so this isn’t a typical “Post-mortem.” In fact, it has nothing to do with the Wisconsin game; I love what Bo Ryan extracts from his players, though. This “essay” is more about the immediate future of the program, and it was written off the top of my head, after listening to some concerned fans and reading what some critics have to say…
In any relationship, there has to be trust.
Do you trust Frank Martin?
This, to me, is the key to the future of Kansas State basketball. Do you like what Martin has done to your program? If so, do you think he can continue to do good? And if you dislike what’s he done, what must he do to gain your confidence — or is it a moot point? In other words, have you already decided he’s a lost cause?
These are only some of the questions, just as there would be with any first-year coach.
Full disclosure — I believe in Frank Martin.
I’m not a K-State fan — and before there is any outrage, I’ve never been a fan of any team I cover (although my parents are, which is weird, but I digress), although it makes for a better story if said team wins a whole lot — but I’m a Frank Martin fan. That does not cloud how I go about my business, just as it wouldn’t if I weren’t a Frank Martin fan.
K-State won 21 games, reached the NCAA Tournament for the first time since 1988 and ended a 24-year home drought to Kansas — the latter being two specific goals Martin announced during “Madness in Manhattan.”
OK, so the trophies he talked about winning didn’t happen.
What people have to reconcile is their expectations. Some believe having the nation’s best player and another star freshman riding shotgun should have yielded more victories and a longer post-season run. The comparison is tired, but bear with me — the same complaints were lobbed at Texas coach Rick Barnes last year after the Kevin Durant and D.J. Augustin-led Longhorns won 25 games and lost in the sec-ond round of the NCAA Tournament to USC.
And Barnes is supposed to be one of the better coaches in the Big 12, a veteran coach with more than 20 years of experience.
Some perspective is needed. While Michael Beasley and Bill Walker haven’t officially decided they’re entering the NBA Draft, Martin isn’t naive, which means he realizes how the Wildcats played this season — working through Beasley and Walker, who are, after all, two future pros — can’t be how the Wildcats will play next year, and even the year after, and so on.
Asking this staff to continue to recruit the type of talent that touched down in Manhattan this year is ludicrous; there’s only one Michael Beasley, folks. It’s not going to happen, although that won’t stop Martin and Co. from trying.
Do you trust that the man has a plan? Or do you really think K-State is going to struggle to score 30 points a game — which is about all that remains from this year’s team if “Batman and Robin,” as Jacob Pullen calls Beasley and Walker, forgo their final three seasons.
Last time I checked, I didn’t think the 2006-07 squad was an offensive juggernaut, but Bob Huggins coaxed 22 wins out of that team. I remember scoring being a distinct struggle virtually every night, but I also remember balanced scoring going a long way — and not to mention a stubborn defense.
Good coaches manufacture ways to win games, and I believe Martin is a good coach.
But this isn’t about me.
Again, do you trust Frank Martin?
33 Comments
I do trust Martin. I completely agree with the Barnes analogy.
I think these guys can and will recruit enough talent to stay in the top 4 of the big 12. I think Martin will grow as a coach in the offseason. I think his personality comes off as being stubborn but from what he says I don’t think he is stubborn. i think pullen and anderson will be good big 12 players. all signs say clement will be a good big 12 player. Maybe 1 or 2 or even all 3 could become great big 12 players. I think they will struggle next year but could finish as high as 5 or 6 in the big 12.
Keys to next year.
1. Sutton developing a higher bbiq(on the offensive end) doesn’t need to be a great scorer but needs the ability to get to the hole off the dribble. i think without beas and walker we’ll see him posting more guys up next year and using quickness and athleticism to get to the rim.
2. Pullen and clement developing into consistant defenders.
3. Anderson getting stronger and becoming a better defender in the post.
4. Samuels is a big wildcard and will probably need to be a presence on offense.
5. Fred Brown/Andre gilbert becoming Higher bbiq on offense and defense(for brown).
For me the jury is still out on Martin. I’m not ready to tell him to hit the road, but I can’t say I’ve bought in yet either. I really need to see how he does on the recruiting front and the results of next season.
If the ‘Cat’s re in the NCAA Tourney again next year, it will be hard to argue against Frankie.
I’d feel a lot better with a Witherspoon or Evans commit.
Overall, I’m cool with Frank, though.
Oh, and on the comparison to Barnes:
How sick would KSU have been this year with a McDonald’s All-American at point guard? It would have been ridiculous.
the only thing that bugs me is his sporadic subbing patterns. give some dudes a chance. aside from that, i’m confident in his recruiting ability and game planning.
I love Frank.
I don’t know if I trust him…Can’t say I wasn’t somewhat confused by some decisions throughout the season… but he definitely deserves a commitment through the 2009-2010 season.
A couple of questions to ponder:
Would Huggins have won more games? Yes I believe he could have squeaked out 2-3 more wins. But not all of them in conference, so it really would not have made much difference as far as trophies.
Would a Huggins coached team have been able to beat Wisconsin on Saturday night? I really don’t think so. I’m not sure what team in the field would have been able to beat Wisconsin on Saturday night.
Was the “gamble” with Martin (gamble = the only reasonable course of action) worth while for the program. Undeniably “YES”!
Although it might be the closest in terms of number of similarities (i.e. Beasley = Durant, young team, in the Big 12), I don’t like the UT analogy because the surrounding talent, overall, is nothing like what UT had/has and quite honestly, it sets up next year for unrealistic expectations (i.e. UT won the conference, should KSU expect to as well?). I’m cool with Frank though and would be even cooler with him if he can get Evans and McDonald for ‘08 and then keep Judge and McGruder for ‘09.
I am not, and have never been, a basketball coach so I have no base of knowledge to criticize Frank’s coaching. I’ll leave that to the other “experts” here on the internet - the guys who sat the bench on some 2A high school team. But I digress.
I am, however, able to speak to Frank’s performance on a management and leadership basis and I feel he has done an outstanding job with those important pieces of the picture.
Yeah, I trust Frank Martin.
no issues with his coaching. at all. look at unc during hansbrough’s frosh year. they had a bunch more talent than us, and got bounced by george f-ing mason in the 2nd round. look at ku the season after simien/miles/langford left. they had more talent, played in a much weaker big 12, and got embarrassed in the first round vs Bradley.
That being said, Frank hasn’t proven to be a great recruiter. He doesn’t strike me as being a great recruiter. Just imo.
First I still don’t see Walker leaving. He’s got a lot more to gain by staying another season. However, the key to Frank Martin’s (or any head coach) success is recruiting. Asbury and Woolridge couldn’t do it. Dana Altman was pretty good at it. Frank has already got a good set of freshman (w/o Beasley and Walker). If Clemente, Samuels, Judge and McGruder pan out as advertised, he’s got a good mix of guards and forwards for the next 4-5 years. For next season, he must get a 3-pt shooter.
With the right talent, I trust Frank (and his assistants) are capable of coaching to the Sweet 16 every year. Sweet 16 appearances generate so much attention to the university, especially by pulling upsets like Hartman and Kruger used to do. That’s what defines a BB program’s success and I think K-State fans would be satisfied with.
Frank has my full support at this moment. As he will next, barring some kind of complete and utter failure next year.
He did more than enough to warrent a couple years of slack to see what he can do.
He doesn’t have to be a great recruiter if he turns out to be a really good coach.
I also am a Martin fan. He seems too determined and savvy to fail. I’m worried about recruiting and keeping the 09 class. But that’s me, I worry. I also think next year’s team is missing some pieces if Walker does not return. Too much will be asked of Anderson next year and/or We’ll have to play small ball a lot. But I’m still coming to games and supporting the ole’ team. Besides Levi said he’d hold the doom sign for a game. How can I pass that up?
JMart - don’t you go thinking about “leaving early” for a bigger gig, either. You are in on this ride with us.
So many new coaches get the pass, “Wait until he gets his own players.”
It may seem strange to apply that to Martin with Beasley and Walker, but I don’t think overall he had the horses to play his game this year. In my view Martin did this year what good coaches do — adapted the team’s style to fit the talent.
Martin said last spring he was going to play pressure defense. He did some this year and we showed flashes but we never developed into a top-flight defensive team. One obvious reason was the fear of getting Beasley and Walker in foul trouble (although foul trouble more or less defined Walker’s year), but I think we just didn’t have the overall talent to effectively pressure.
The staff’s apparent zeal for McDonald I think is a hint of Martin’s plan for a Martin team. Long, lean, athletic guys (think Sutton, Samuels and to a degree Gilbert), who pressure, shut down passing lanes.
As for recruiting, Martin has done that everwhere he’s been (even high school as KU detractors would have it). I mean he got an NBA player to Northeastern (how many has K-State had in the past 20 years).
I think we’re in for a great ride with a very exciting brand of basketball.
I like and trust Frank Martin. A key for me: his players trust and like him. I recall reading an article regarding an interview with Clent Stewart earlier this year. He was asked about living through the coaching changes he’d experienced in college. He stated, “Frank Martin is the one coach I know I can always talk to. He truly cares about his players.” I really believe he will work his butt off because of the opportunity given to lead the team this year. It’s pretty obvious his assistant coaches and trainers have a good rapport with him. They all had a chance to leave with Huggins and they chose to stay with Frank in Manhattan. That says a lot. Recruiting? That’s still and unknown, but we know hard work and effort are his standard. I also believe he understands and appreciates the passion of K-Staters. He’s one of us. Our donation will continue and I’ll be at the games next year cheering loudly for our players and coaching staff.
The next 6 months will determine the fate of the Martin era. He’s got 5 to 7 scholarships to fill that will determine the success and failure of the next three seasons. If he gets the right guys, success will breed success. If he fails, he won’t make it to year 5.
Judge and McGruder for ‘09 give me reason to trust Frank & Dalonte. If Frank lands us another one, it will be hard not to believe in the program. However, I am kinda like a kid who was molested by an uncle….I have trouble trusting my heroes.
5-7? Are you counting 09 too? Transfers? Are we cutting Colon? One of those goes to Samuels. If we can get Hoskins cleared, we’ll give him one for the year and then pick up an 09. If not I’d hold it, or hope for a good transfer. No one left in this class worth working for. Tyree would be a good get, if he doesn’t get a broken jaw and turn us into Mizzou. McDonald is a solid get for team style.
I trust Frank Martin. He is the glue that kept this ship afloat after Huggins left. He is the coach that players want to play for. He won third place in the Big 12 despite the loss of David Hoskins, a senior leader who was sorely missed by this extremely young team. Hoskins had an outside chance to go to the league if this year went right. In my mind, Martin is one Dave Hoskins away from being coach of the year in the Big 12 and possibly the country.
I’m talking about 08 AND 09. Even if Beasley, Hoskins and Walker all come back next season (yeah right) and we have no ships to give for 08, they most assuredly ain’t coming back for 09. So that would mean 6 ships open for 09. Hoskins ship will reopen for 09 anyway. Remember that the early signing period for 09-10 is in November, which means this offseason will be focused on both classes.
April signing period for 08 class:
Beasleys: ??? extremely likely this one will get filled next month.
Walkers: ??? 50/50 and won’t know until June. My guess is that he tests the waters without an agent first. They will try to string somebody along.
Hoskins: ?? probably won’t know until mid summer at the earliest if he gets a Med redshirt. May as well count this to 09 IMO. By the time everything shakes out with Dave, it’ll be too late to sign anyone. Just assume he’s back in some capacity next season…even if it’s in a wheelchair.
November signing period for class 09:
Gilbert: very likely McGruder
Kent: very likely Judge
Hoskins: ??? extremely probable this ship will be availibe at this time.
Jason Bennett’s penatly ship reopens: ???
Walkers: ??? possible that he declares too late and they just move it to 09. Also possible that he comes back for a year, in which case this would move to the late period for 09-10.
So my guess is that they will get one, maybe two, to come in right away, and at least 4 for Novemeber. It could shake out many different ways, but I sincerely believe he makes or breaks himself this offseason. If we get into next season’s play without a quality group signed, I think it spells doom.
Hell yeah I trust him. At least from what the players say about him, he has a leadership style that I enjoy.
Plus, a great foundation has been set. The possibilities are endless for the future of the program. Hopefully him and his coaching staff takes advantage of it all.
But who knows, next year could blow us all away.
I’m going to make my comments before reading the others..
At this point I do trust Martin. This season wasn’t everything we hoped after a 6-0 conference start, but, we did break that ridiculous streak, finished 3rd in the conf. made the tournament, beat a higher ranked team and had the opportunity to say one of the best college freshman in the history of freshman playing was a Wildcat. (don’t forget; preseason we were picked 4th and that was with the assumption that Hoskins would be playing) I’m not a basketball coach so I don’t know that it’s fair for me to criticize some of the decisions he made throughout the year. I hope that Coach Martin learns from his mistakes and successes from this season. I also hope he is given an opportunity to prove himself and if by some chance he isn’t able to make it happen he is shown more respect than Wooldridge was. Wooldridge being fired before he even got back to Manhattan was one of the most embarrassing events in recent memory. I’ve gotten off track though…Yes I trust Coach Martin.
If he can get Reid, McGruder, Judge, that’s an impressive class. But you said 4, so who would we want there? Anyone leaning toward us for that class? Do we still want Boyd? He kind of plummeted from the ranks. Feel free to respond on KSUfans if you don’t want to reply here.
J, after reading this again, you are a closet KSU fan. Hate to break it to you. I’ll buy you a hat if you need one.
Assuming we got those three, I would want a PG first. Clemente will be a SR and Pullen a JR when that class comes in,so we’ll need a young guy. Mike Dixon out of KC would be really nice. He’s a top 100 guy, he’d fill a need and it’s been a long time since we landed a legit KC prospect. My next choice would be another big. If we get Evans and/or McDonald in 08 (in addition to the guys discussed for 09) we’d be fairly loaded with wings and guards.
Obviously, any top 20 guy I would welcome regardless of position.
Jeff:
I think an overwhelming majority read the bile from another writer from the KCStar and shrug it off. JW has an agenda, and that agenda is JW. He came up with this brilliant insight that Martin changed his coaching style into one that he liked. When coach shot that down, you could see it coming. In his mind, it is terribly important for everybody to witness the brilliance. Luckily, he’s going off to save Obama. How he ever got to where he is without the sage’s advice, is remarkable.
As for Frank, I give him a pretty good grade. Having talent is a great advantage, but sometimes it’s even harder to coach up all players when you rely so heavily on two. I’m really looking forward to next season (for a longtime KSU fan, that says a ton) and Frank deserves credit.
Even if Mike and Bill leave; we have some great stories for next year.
What is the reasonable level of talent for them to land on a regular basis?
Does Jacob get the opportunity to be a playmaker?
Did Greenwalt perform his magic on Jamar?
Will Dominique gain confidence on the offensive side?
How good is Ron Anderson? (I think..very)
Will Gilbert develop an understanding of the proper shot within the offense?
Colon’s footwork is improving, what’s his ceiling?
Can Darren Kent break the conference record for bogus foul calls?
If Clemente goes to point; does Frank curse him out in Spanish?
If any of the superstars return, it’s just gravy. We had a hell of a ride this year.
i agree with russell, 3f and yosh. i like martin as a human being, and as a floor coach. in general, i feel very good about future ksu bball.
but i’d feel better if there was a top 100 2008 or two signed up. how he and the rest of the staff fill the 2008s and remaining 2009s will more or less determine his fate as the ksu head coach, judge and mcgruder are a great start.
taking gilbert last spring is a reason to worry.
Overall I think Martin did an admirable job considering the youth of this team and the fact that he had to manage the number of egos he did. He got these guys to defend far better than I expected (though consistency was an issue) and he was able to build a team that relied on Beasley a lot, but also shared the load as much as possible through Walker first, then Pullen, then the rest of his players. I think Martin’s substitution patterns and use of Pullen are valid complaints, but every coach deserves to have a learning curve.
I do think the foundation is in place for a bright future, but he still needs to get a couple solid players for next year’s class and hold on to the DC connection for 09. I think he will. It will be interesting to see how this team adjusts to life without Beasley and Walker, but I do think next year’s team will be a lot of fun to watch even though there will likely be some very ugly games for K-State.
I’m expecting a very high pace team that tries to pressure the ball and score as much as possible in transition. In the half court a very perimeter oriented team that tries to use Clemente, Pullen, Evans (hopefully) and even Sutton to break teams down off the dribble. And a team that has much more balance (which is overrated, I hope someone steps up to score 15+ consistently) hopefully fighting for the middle of the league and at least some sort of postseason. Should be fun to watch.
Balanced scoring? Did you say balanced scoring? We’re screwed.
I like Frank a lot! He took everything in stride. How about having the best player in the nation in your first year as a head coach. Yes you have a tremendous talent but then you have to deal with the media, how to best harness the best talent in the nation and mix it with the rest of your team. If that is not putting a guy in a boiler and waiting for him to explode I don’t know what is. He had so much pressure to produce compaired to any other first year coach. And he was damned if he do and damned if he don’t. If he would have won more Beasley and Walker get the credit. If he loses any more than he did he sucks as a coach and he needs to be fired. As a Wildcat fan since I was born I like the guy and hope he can find some good kids to fit into his system.
In Frank I TRUST!!! I am very excited about the position of K-State Basketball for the future. Think about this, if we did not have Beasley and Walker this past year we would all be going crazy over these freshman we have coming back. Sutton, Anderson, Pullen, and Brown. Over the past 10 plus years, we would have given almost anything to have just one or two of those guys coming back as freshmen. Add to it the possibilities if Samuels and Clemente are the real deal and we should be more optimistic about next year than any of the past 12 (except for the past 2).
Nice Post-Mortem Jeff… I like the perspective.
I have trust and faith - but I am one of those optimistic about the future types. Don’t know how to reconcile being pesimistic about the here and now and optimistic about the future, but I am. I like all the coaching staff a lot, including Greenawalt. I agree with those who have stated it is more difficult to coach the all-universe type talent, especially when it’s all done in the space of what, 8-9 months? I loved to see the ball movement we lacked under the previous coaching regimes. Confidence in shooting has always been a struggle for the Cats since ‘88. I think we will get better in that area, starting next year. I’m all in with Frank.