Interestingly, a little more than a half-hour of this morning’s brainstorming in Chattanooga was devoted to the “vocal minority,” a group of Wichitans who oppose public-private partnerships to redevelop downtown.
There were several calls to action, including one from Mayor Carl Brewer, who said, “We cannot be intimidated.” Others called out Wichita blogger Bob Weeks and one near the front of the room, away from me, said bluntly, “We have to watch who we elect.”
Quite clearly, the information battle on downtown redevelopment has been joined. I’ll have more on the brainstorming sessions, including the focus on the anti-tax crowd, in Saturday’s Eagle.
32 Comments
Bill,
You are doing a disservice to lump the skeptics as simple anti-tax.
More fundamental questions need to be asked.
What is the return on investment? What is the proper role of government in real estate develope and how effective are they anyway? What could be done if the city simply got out of the way?
If Wichita’s population growth is not downtown, haven’t people voted with their feet?
How much will this cost?
Being against governmnet intrustions and corporate welfare doesn’t make you against downtown redevelopment.
Bill – I suggest ya’ll tread very carefully there. There are many ‘on the fence’ who can be swayed one way or the other. Note the last few County Comm elections. I am one of those ’swayables’ – I support ‘in concept’ the idea of these partnerships but feel they have been horribly misused. That, in turn, helps the Weeks group.
Next year’s County election should be very interesting.
frankie – well said!
Bill – a further comment. All politics is won or lost in the center. That is true here as well. You have those like Weeks who are 100% opposed; you have others like Hanson who are 100% for. In too many cases many of those ‘for’ are also on the payroll of the city or its ’subsidiaries’.
Your job, THEIR job, is to convince the rest of us that you/they are spending our money wisely. That is also the cure for cynicism you mentioned elsewhere.
I’m 82% to 93% for.
Bill, I really would like to thank you for attending with the folks to Chattanooga and giving us the play-by-play on what was going on, the discussions that were taking place and the learning experience and ideas the group was getting from this trip.
We do need a call for action. I’m very optimistic that we are finally moving forward towards downtown revitalization, but we must act more swiftly and aggressively or we will be constantly behind while other cities move forward and attract investment, companies, talent and residents.
We’ve been moving way to slow, with only one major development per decade. That isn’t going to cut it. Especially that other cities in our vicinity has been surpassing us in development and vision.
The bright spot is that we are finally recognizing it and moving forward with a plan. Visioneering Wichita was a great start and now the Downtown Revitalization Plan is another.
We are always going to have the Bob Weeks in our community. Honestly they do give a perspective that is needed and they caution about what needs to be done. At best they are signaling a second look and a non-impulsive approach. Although I often times disagree with Bob Weeks on many accounts, but he refuses to debate, he just wants to be heard.
They advocate for free-market approaches and all private investment, yet they don’t participate in investing themselves. I often times tell them that the City of Wichita is much like the private sector and free-markets, because we are competing with other cities in order to grow and even stay alive. I believe in free-markets and believe that public-private investment is a part of that.
But we will see. As the Peerless Tower Project moves forward, let us see if I can get it built without any taxpayer fund as I want it to be. Not on principle, but because I believe it can be done that way. If the anti-tax and anti-arena crowd want to prove their principles, hey…donate to the Peerless Tower Project.
I have not previously heard of the Peerless Tower project. Interesting web site.
Joe! I cannot speak for Bob Weeks but I CAN tell you that as a small business owner I am heavily invested in downtown. That is why I want to see downtown redevelopment. However, I am also a critic because I have seen far too many ill-advised initiatives. I want to see this done INTELLIGENTLY.
As I have stated – I am hopeful about Goody/Clancy. As Weeks noted last night on Kansas Week (KPTS) perhaps we should have planned BEFORE starting certain developments.
About the Tower – have you approached any wireless providers about establishing an area-wide ‘hot spot’ centered around it?
ictBest:
“They advocate for free-market approaches and all private investment, yet they don’t participate in investing themselves.”
If you make only 20 to 25 thousand dollars per a year, participating in an investment is non-existing for a lot of people.
After you pay out for all your basic survival needs, there is hardly any money left to put into an investment, let alone someone else’s investment.
One of the problems with public-private investment is that one person’s income, lifestyle and education level cause problems and hurt another person’s income, lifestyle and education level, keeping a majority poor and keeping a minority prosperous.
If you don’t like the ideal of the Bob Weeks in our community being an opposition maybe those public-private investments need to benefit the majority poor more than the minority prosperous.
And btw, you can’t change pessimism to optimism with a symbolic tower when you are treated like crap.
“yet they don’t participate in investing themselves”
Joe! Have YOU? Have you started a business downtown? Do you provide employment to people downtown? I do! How do you know that Weeks is not a businessman employing people due to his investing downtwn?
Wiseman, I don’t expect everybody to invest, even if taxpayer funds are being used for those investments. People who make little or even no income don’t pay any taxes, if very little, so it isn’t like anything is being “stolen” from them. Unless you believe that no taxes should be levied on anybody.
Quite the contrary on Bob Weeks, I just disagree with him on many of his opinions, but his approach from what he has written and spoken about, that he doesn’t believe any public funds should be used for any development project at all. His views are; “If the private sector doesn’t invest downtown then let it die. They talk with their feet.” He often touts The Waterfront and other suburban sprawl developments as the correct way of doing things, meaning that he doesn’t care if downtown Wichita turns into a decrepit ghost town, crime-ridden and vacant. So long as not a single dollar of tax payer funds are used.
Bob Weeks subscribes to a political ideology that is diametrically opposed to both you Ben and Wiseman. Do you think he cares about poor people? Do you think he cares about the environment or public schools? Not at all.
Look, I’m not here to bash on Bob Weeks. I’ve stated that he is welcome to his opinionated view points and to speak on that as he sees fit. I believe he does a great service to our community by being a voice of opposition to private-public endeavors, especially his relentless outspoken cries against TIF Districts. I like it when anybody as a voice, regardless if I agree with them or not. I’m a regular reader and I post on Bob Weeks blog.
Wiseman? I’m sorry you feel like the local community is treating you like crap. What are your recommendations you feel that can make things better? Many people do feel neglected by their government or have the perception that the needs of developers supersede the needs of the average resident. How can we change that around? If you think that local government should exclusively focus their attention and taxpayers funds to help those who don’t earn or earn as much, let them know and help elect politicians that side with your views.
I’m a blue-collar worker myself and I don’t earn all that much either. I just do the best I can do and try to stay optimistic and not complain too much. I have my opinions and ideological views, and they may differ from you, but I’ll acknowledge your grievances and legitimate.
As for Ben, the only thing I know is that Bob Weeks is a retired individual and a local activist/blogger. I am not certain he owns any businesses downtown or employs people.
I also don’t know what your company is either. I thought you were a geologist working for a geologist firm, but I didn’t know you had your own company and have employees working for you. May I ask what is your company? I have a good friend of mine who is a geologist and he may recognize your company.
And you ask if I own a downtown business. I do run a corporation for which I also founded, called the Peerless Tower, Inc. But it is a non-for-profit company. If things go well, it should be employing people.
I have paid free lancers to do work on behalf of the Peerless Tower, Inc., so you can say that I have employed people, although by contract.
But I don’t receive any pay for what I do with the Peerless Tower. We have no paid staff, just volunteers.
I have a full-time job as a blue-collar worker, so that is how I earn a living for my family.
ictBest, I’m sorry that you have misunderstood me.
I personally do not feel that the local community is treating me like crap at this time.
Growing up being socially abused due to disabilities, in between two different worlds, I am well hardened to the BS of others.
Your tower symbolism does not directly help the needy; it does not give them shelter, put food in their mouths or give them euphoric state of health that will give a positive feeling about life.
You have asked “What are your recommendations you feel that can make things better” and “How can we change that around?”
You can think about your “Will”, are you trying to imposing your will onto others?
This is the one thing that is driving me crazy about what the local community is doing.
How some are so willing to impose their will using taxpayers, saying what is good for the many when the truth is that it does not, only just for a handful.
I don’t live in downtown and I don’t give damn about what is happening there.
The only thing I give a damn about is what is going on in my own neighborhood and what I am being forced to do, losing money that I am trying to hold onto for my own benefits that will serve me, not someone else’s.
Please understand this, I live in a community but I am not a part of the community.
I stand alone in everything that I do.
I’m not imposing my will on anybody. I live my life and pay my taxes like everybody else. But when the community is asked to fund a program and to come up for a vote, such as a $.01 to fund the Kellogg Ave. expansion or for a Downtown Arena, and the majority say yes, I can see why you would believe that you, by voting “no” is having another person so called ‘forcing’ their will on you to pay for something you don’t want to pay for. I don’t know what to say about that. You can either not participate by not buying anything in Sedgwick County or the City of Wichita as to not pay any sales taxes for that project or in the case of property taxes, move away. I don’t see any other alternative.
In the society we live in, there is a give and take for everything, and we often times use taxpayers funds to provide for many of the things the community has majority agreed with, either it be services or tangible assets. Sometimes it benefits those who are in need of being helped and sometimes it benefits those who are well off. Maybe you perceived it to be out-of-balance to those who are well-to-do and it should be tilted all the way or heavily to those in need, but that is a personally held opinion and everybody has a different one, that is why we use Democracy to come up with decisions as a community for what we should do.
I believe that we should strike good balances in our community to increase the quality of life for all residents. And that means we help the those who cannot help themselves, but I also believe that arts help the quality of life as it helps enrich the life experiences of people regardless if they are poor or rich. The Keeper of the Plains might be considered a complete waste of money to you, but to many others in our community, it signifies an important aesthetic that helps us belong to a community by feeling attached and a sense of belonging. You might not feel that way, but many others do.
The Peerless Tower Project is a public art project that I’m not requesting any taxpayers to help fund. It might not fit to what you believe that money that private individuals donate to, but it isn’t going against their will or yours either. If you are asking me that I should instead use funds or have a non-profit organization that helps poor people pay rent and have food in the pantry, well I contribute to that as well. But I also fully believe in that the Peerless Tower will be treasured by many in our community as an important aspect that increases the quality of life, although it may not be presented as monetary handouts, but not everything is about money.
Sometimes people can find a calming pleasure in just watching the sunset, even if their circumstances in their lives might not be so well.
I can only control what I can control and I’m yet only one person with only one vote. The community will make decisions regardless of my preferences and I accept them so long as the rules of Democracy apply equally to all people.
“little or even no income don’t pay any taxes,”
Sales taxes are levied on food and medicines.
The company in which I am part owner is computer-related. I don’t do the ‘tech’ part – in fact don’t fully understand it. My point is that I have invested real dollars into it and it is downtown.
Joe, you know that I do NOT subscride to the Weeks philosophy of no partnerships. I just want them done right – and far too often they have not been.
We are working on our own vision for a strucure downtown which we will send to Fluhr and to Bill Wilson. I have already published an approach to IBA access that is, in part, now being adopted (without giving credit I might note) by the ‘powers’
My downtown plan focuses on Douglas from Seneca to Hillside. Four subparts: Delano, Downtown, Old Town, and Douglas Design. I tie it all together with Q’s and improved sidewalks. Parking at periphery – especially near freeways for out-of-town visitors. Buses running into the Transit Center which just happens to be right in the middle of it all.
I pull the plug on WaterWalk and sell the property between Wichita St and Main St to the highest bidder. That ill-conceived fiasco gives people like Weeks their best ammunition against downtown projects. I put Waltzing Waters in or by the River either at or across from Delano Park. I rebuild the West Bank Stage with the money that was to go to the deleted amphitheater in WaterWalk.
I WANT to see downtown succeed. I have seen in other cities successes in this – I have also seen failures. I bring an ‘outsider’s perspective’ but also have a Wichitan’s self-interest and committment. While I am not ‘from here’ I have lived here longer (as an adult) than most natives involved. So, I am NOT a ‘carpetbagger’; I am a Wichitan. I am very heavily invested in this community – I need it to succeed.
Ben, you know I think you’re cool. We may disagree on airline subsidies, the IBA or the new airport terminal, but we have much in agreement.
I don’t consider you a carpetbagger at all. There is only one individual that I ever made reference to on that and I have no idea where he is. He probably moved away.
But I know you have a vested interest and love for this community. Many times you have made references to the great arts & cultural events happening in the Wichita area, especially the events at Century II. Also, not to forget the times you make it to the Editorial page of the Wichita Eagle. I know you have every legitimate claim and stake for Wichita’s future as all other residents and maybe even much more so, because you are actively aware and involved in the process. Most people will not or don’t care to get involved.
I’m very interested in what you have planned, it sounds exciting and promising. And I have every confidence in you that you can make it happen.
Bth, I’m sorry but your plan is way too simple and makes entirely too much sense. Now the largest earth-shattering discovery in your proposal is the identification of a true downtown CORE. What a concept.
It’s just that simple folks. Identify the core. Segment it. Work the segments with public input to support private development. Provide infrastructure, primarily addressing transit, parking, and lighting. That is the hub.
Unfortunately, bth, since this does not agree with the city’s vision you are a “naysayer” and a call of action pox shall be initiated against you.
But on this, I have your back.
Hi jerry – so true! The other deficiency to my plan is that it doesn’t call for a half-billion in tax dollars for subsidies.
Ah, a couple of days away from work was nice.
Now, to the comments:
Frankie, your admonition to “be careful” amuses me and I’m going to acknowledge your point, then tell you why:
You’re right, in one sense: I probably should have referred to the downtown opponents as the “Oh, my God. Don’t spend a dime on anything” crowd, given their weekly pattern of whining about every and all expenditure made by government. There’s a basic business tenet, “Spending money to make money,” and it escapes the CAVE people in Wichita – citizens against virtually everything.
And I’d caution those of you in this thread to remember this: Thoughtful, fact-based debate strengthens democracy; universal, ideology-based debate accomplishes very little.
I think those of you who are regulars know what I think about the prevailing definition of “free market,” since it’s been pretty clearly demonstrated that its true definition is unfettered access to the public’s money. But as it applies to downtown, the idea that the market should dictate downtown’s future is intellectually shallow – does anyone think that there’s a developer, let alone their bank, who has the willingness or the capability to step up alone to acquire and develop property that’s been allowed to run down over three decades? In this economy? And is anyone out there willing to sit back and maintain the status quo?
Of course not. So in downtown’s instance, “letting the market decide” is nothing more than a thin ideological argument that tells me this: Its proponents would rather be right than advocate in Wichita’s best interests. That is just sad, and it speaks more to its proponents than it does anything else.
Here are some facts you can take to the bank: There are other American cities that haven’t fallen victim to that silly ideology. They have invested time, public and private resources and the best efforts of their brightest people in their downtowns, and they’ve produced results.
If we EVER get to the point in Wichita where ideology trumps the best interests of the city, then it’s time to leave.
To continue:
Ben, I continue to be disappointed by those who rely on past history as a rationale for questioning what has to date been a substantial and comprehensive effort to rebuild downtown. As the saying goes, those who rely on the past are doomed to repeat it.
We’re all aware of the past. But let me use Chattanooga as an example: In 1969, the city had 100 years as a manufacturing power and a dubious distinction from Walter Cronkite as the dirtiest city in America.
Had the city relied on the past, it would have sat back, counted the days of heavy smog and watched its manufacturing and economic base erode.
Instead, the city partnered with private foundations and went to work remaking itself downtown. The result 40 years later is a downtown culturally alive with people and business – despite the fact that it’s still honing in on the retail it needs – and a city that’s successfully landed several major industries, the latest being Volkswagen.
Now, look me in the eye and tell me that we wouldn’t LOVE to diversify our economy with an auto plant.
I can tell you categorically it won’t happen until Wichita improves its quality of life. The VW people were clear: Quality of life lured them to Chattanooga.
That’s the foundational goal of revitalizing downtown, whether we’re talking this project, the arena, Old Town, WaterWalk, the river or a litany of other ideas that have drawn criticism from our less visionary neighbors.
It’s interesting to me how officials keep getting elected in Wichita, considering the comparative lack of faith the vocal minority seems to have in them.
At some point, we’re going to have to invest our faith in some of these people’s judgments, or Wichita will never, ever move forward. I see no new ideas from the CAVE people, just opposition.
To continue:
So, to summarize, I don’t think there’s a person involved in downtown revitalization who’s unwilling to listen to new ideas, regardless of the side of the ideological fence they come from, myself included.
But I don’t think you will find – or should find – a lot of patience with the “heads I win, tails you lose” argument that is “let the market decide.
Don’t forget, you’re talking to the people at the Eagle who brought you the city’s past due diligence failures – WaterWalk, the mid-town project. When we see something wrong, we’ll tell you.
But don’t dismiss what has been a pristine year of hard work on a public-private planning partnership because of the past. It’s a disservice to the city.
Bill, I think my Douglas focus is not dwelling on the past; it is focusing on the future. My point is that since we have limited resources we ned to focus them where they can have significant effect. Douglas is such a spot. And I think my publised proposal for transportation/access was also a ‘useful idea’; in fact parts of it have subsequently been incorporated in the City’s plan.
And the REAL saying is “Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
As for continuing to elect these leaders take a look at the north side of Central. There has been some significant change over there.
Fair points, Ben, which raise an observation I’d like you to address:
First, I don’t consider you one of the CAVE people; in fact, if you need any help getting your proposal in front of the WDDC or the city, ask. I’d be glad to help. Rest assured that Douglas will be a key corridor as downtown redevelops.
But my sense from your comments is that you’re inherently pessimistic that anything good can come of the current process. That’s what I mean by obsessing on the past. I’ve been watching this process unfold for a year, and it’s clean. If it ever veers off this course, I’ll be on the front lines writing about it.
This discussion really boils down to this: Are you satisfied with the status quo? I get the strong sense, Ben, that you’re not.
But I think you’d acknowledge that some of the more vocal opponents of this project must be: They’ve offered no ideas, no counter-proposals – just the weekly appearances at the city council to complain.
The message that came out of Friday’s brainstorming should be pretty clear: All ideas are welcome at the table.
But if opponents don’t have any, downtown revitalization will press on. It has to if the city’s going to grow its economy. And it will press on without them. There isn’t going to be any room at the table for opposition merely for a contrarian’s sake. And there shouldn’t be.
We are largely in agreement Bill. I am especially hopeful that the new consultant can get some re-direction that we need. I become pessimistic when I see the same vested interests who led us down garden paths in the past seeking to do more of the same. And, I think that until we cut off WaterWalk it will continue to drag down other efforts. It is just sucking up too much money that could be better spent elsewhere. I foung it encouraging that Goody-Clancy seemed to acknowledge that we did not need another Old Town; that WW had run into a ceiling in the number of bars etc that we can support.
You are correct – I am not satisfied with the status quo. And, part of that status quo is not letting go of failed efforts when the time comes to do so. Also not doing a 180 when the time comes to do so.
I wouldn’t look for WaterWalk to go away – but I would look for its role in downtown to be redefined a bit in the GC plan.
I’d look for office building development between Wichita and Water Streets. It may be that with the large parking garages we have built that they might not need to build quite as much on-site parking to support the offices.
West of Wichita St is pretty much filled – use the gap between the Boathouse and Gander Molehill for a boat dock/launch. Then find a way to do a bike/walk way along the entire distance. I’m not quite sure how we get around the warehouse that is right on the River. Boathouse is looking up – thanks to Bill Koch and in spite of WaterWalk.
I wonder – English St east of Broadway as a walking esplanade? Might make a great access way to IBA.
I appreciate the exchange of ideas between Bill and Ben. Ben you have good ideas but you operate as an individual. It seems you don’t try to develop a support group. I know you work and it is a matter of time available. But they need a broader exposure.
Good point Lonny. 50 hours/week plus 5 grandkids keeps me pretty busy. As for a ‘group’ I have been involved in South-Central trying to get some progress there. We had a very successful Fall festival down there a couple weeks back (even though cold and cloudy)
I did get most of my IBA transportation/parking proposal publishes as a letter to the eagle and sent the more comprehensive version to Fluhr. I see transportation to be a key to a lot of things downtown and am hopeful that GC, being from one of my prior hometowns, will help in that regard. I went to many ball games in beloved Fenway park and never had to deal with parking.
We are currently working on details of our Douglas corridor idea – it spills a bit north and south of Douglas – particularly the English mall thought. When it is complets we will give it to Fluhr and will also provide a copy to Bill.
Ben, what you’re doing is brainstorming in a manner that should be well received downtown. If it ever isn’t, I’ll make that point known in print.
No one should find brainstorming objectionable, just as no one with Wichita’s best interests at heart should find objection without participation particularly noble.
Any opinions on the Peerless Tower, Bill?
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Bill – spam is back. Is there any way your IT can block the garbage?
I am a guy in his early 30’s, grew up in the surrounding area and who moved from the NE side to Riverside to raise my family. Am I crazy…no just maybe have high expectations of what is to come and how Riverside can be a premier neighborhood in the new downtown. Lastly, I work downtown for a new company that had the courage to move from Boston to make their headquarters here in Wichita so I see what is possible. I am very inspired by the productive work going on downtown and from the comments on this blog. You guys really love this city and are actually doing something. Please let me know how I can help or get involved. I too work and am getting my MBA but want to see these plans come to fruition.