Remember John Elkington, the Beale Street developer in Memphis who helped WaterWalk officials land a handful of commercial leases for the development early last year – leases that haven’t broken any ground?
It appears that Elkington’s signature project, Beale Street, has become a legal hot potato in Memphis, with the city suing Elkington’s Perfoma group and Elkington replying in kind.
Meanwhile, WaterWalk remains a stretch of barren ground, surrounding the lofts and office project, the Wichita Area Association of Realtors and Gander Mountain.
It’ll be interesting to see what direction new Wichita City Manager Bob Layton can help provide.
28 Comments
SWEET! They sure did a great job of vetting him didn’t they?!
As I have said before – this fiasco was doomed from the start. That is why the City deleted specific comments from the record – comments that predicted the events that followed.
Meanwhile – the Boathouse continues to crumble.
From Ringer’s blog:
“but it won’t be the Saddle Ranch Chop House.
Almost two years after announcing the restaurant would come, WaterWalk president Tom Johnson now says it won’t. But he says it’s no big deal.”
Wasn’t this one of the great deal-making finds that Elkington got for his good buddy Johnson?
For your information BTH John Elkington had nothing to do with the Saddle Ranch Chop House deal. WaterWalk developers had a letter of intent from Saddle Ranch back in May of 2006 and they formally announced it to the meda in August of 2006 (The Wichita Business Journal dated August 14, 2006) As for John Elkington, he became involved with WaterWalk at a later date in working to attract national tenants. It was announced in the Wichita Business Journal dated January 18, 2008 that Elkington had helped bring Wet Wille’s and Funny Bone Comedy Club to WaterWalk. I agree with you that WaterWalk has been a fiasco (a big one) but that is no reason to make what I see as a derisive comment about Mr Johnson geting a great deal from his “good buddy” John Elkington. Anyway there are many reasons that this project has so far been a falure. The first reason is that urban projects of this magnitude are extremely complicated politcally and physically, and that public-private parterships can get hung up in bickering between the parters. The first big delay happened in 2003 when WaterWalk was in talks with Bass Pro Shops, Commerce Bank and Foulston-Siefston. Mr Carlos Mayans was elected mayor in April of that year and he blocked the creation of the tax financing needed to seal a deal with Bass Pro Shops. After 9 months of dickering, Mr Mayans cut $3 million out of the City’s $30.9 million contribution………..so we got Gander Mountain, not Bass Pro,and Commerce Bank and Foulston-Siefston went to the Waterfront in 2005. About the same time City Manager Chris Cherches resigned and we did not have a new City Manager (George Kolb) until the summer of 2004. After ground work started all kinds of problems started to pop up, there was the ground contamination which which put the project on hold for a considerable amount of time. They ran into problems with the old sewer lines which were in such bad shape that they had to be replaced and that also took up a lot of time. The developers and the City have changed the design of the WaterWalk way to many times which has drove Gossen Livington Architects crazy, moving the dancing fountains was the last change which should not have done. There is enough blame for everyone who has been involved in this project but I believe that in time (I hope) that WaterWalk will be a key part of Downtown redevelopment. Time will tell and with the economy as it is now that is likely going to be a while. Also FYI the Saddle Ranch Chop House in Kansas City closed back in Febuary.
Saddle Ranch Chop House is probably going to go completely out of business, so it is a good thing it never comes.
Air cap guy is right. The Legends near the Kansas Speedway in Kansas City received $300 million dollars from the Kansas Legislature in Star Bonds and the Chop House was one of the first tenants. Now it’s closed.
aircapguy – the City was fully aware of the contamination and the sewer conditions BEFORE they started this thing. They chose to ignore that just as they ignored all other warnings about this project. EVERYTHING about yjos thing has been a fiasco. However I must disagree with you about “blame for everyone who has been involved in this project”. Those of us who have been on the outside trying to make positive changes (like do something positive with the boathouse) do not share in the blame that rightly belongs to Johnson et.al.
bth, you say that the City was “fully aware” of the contamination and the sewer conditions BEFORE they started this thing. Maybe so but I would like to see some kind proof. You also say the City deleted specific comments from the record – comments that predicted the events that followed. That should not have been done and I would like to know what record and what were the comments were. Also when I said “There is enough blame for everyone who has been involved in this project” it means those who were responsible and answerable for the decisions made in the WaterWalk development, not people on the outside like you or me. I commend you for working to make positive changes and you need to continue to do so, and I agree that you in no way share any responsibslity for these failures. I find it is very easy for us to find fault and pass judgement the decisions of others when we don’t have have full knowledge of all that is involved in projects like such as WaterWalk. I am not making any excuses or justifying any of the principals involved with WaterWalk because they are the ones ultimately responsible for the failures in this project and new ledership at the helm would likely help this project along. You say this “fiasco was doomed from the start”, will so far you seem to be correct——–I hope in the long you are wrong bth and I presume you feel the same way, that this will be turned around and be a successful development. I myself have in the past been involved in the engineering and planning of some very large projects for U S goverment agencies which cost in the billions of dollars. I can tell you from experience that they all semed at the time like big time boondoggles and that they were doomed to failure (as some may still believe), they seemed like useless and wasteful projects “one of the projects I nicknamed Air Farce One”, I bet you can figure that one out. Will you know what, after many mistakes, cost over runs, and lots of boood, sweet and tears and way behind schedule they all eventually turned out to be successful programs. I believe that ultimately WaterWalk will turn out to be a to be successful and key part of the downtown Wichita redevelopment, will it take time “YES” will it have more ups and downs “YES”, will more mistakes be made “PROBABLY”, will more changes be made to the plan “PROBABLY”, will it be like you or I would like it to be “PROBABLY NOT” but in time it will be completed and hopefully it will be successful. Again thanks bth for working to make positive changes for Wichita, we may not always agree but the important thing is to be agreeable and to for us listen with a open mind.
By the way two more things which slowed the WaterWalk project down were the Kansas Legislature draging it’s feet in approving Star Bonds and a lawsuit which tried to stop the demolishing of the apartment building at the S.W. corner Main and Lewis St. The apartment building was partially demolished by the city when the lawsuit was taken out and it stood partially demolished for appimately 4 or 5 months until the lawsuit was settled.
acg – go through the reports from the Gilbert/Mosley studies. As a part of that they looked both at the old gas plant near the river and the migration of the G/M plume near Main. I would also point out that dealing with contamination of the sort found at WW is actually quite simple. EPA has worked out protocols for “Brownfields Development” that are designed to streamline the process.
As for the comments that were deleted from the record: go back to City Council minutes for the meeting at which WW was first approved. I am mentioned only as having “spoken in oposition to the project” with nothing specific. This in spite of the fact that I provided written copy of my comments.
http://www.wichita.gov/NR/rdonlyres/8B6126BD-057E-4A9B-A3BF-6C398DA6992D/0/09102002Council_Minutes.pdf
See pages 260-261
I remember the lawsuits over the siezure of that property on Main. Given the fact that the City knew going in that there aould likely be resistence to such land siezures there is no excuse in their not being properly prepared. Imminent Domain siezures of property for private development is a highly controversial issue. They should have thought of that.
“when we don’t have have full knowledge of all that is involved in projects like such as WaterWalk”
Is it not the responsibility of the City to provide us with all of that information? Another aspect of the ‘cleansed’ minutes I linked above is that the taxpayer has no way to know what the developers promised in return for our tax money.
When addressing the question of ’success’ down the road I would like to see that defined. If, after spending a billion of my dollars it generates a few million does that constitute success? I think not.
That is why, for example, I push Arena supporters to tell me just what I should look forward to. A guy representing himself as a part of SMG would claim that ‘at some point’ we will have NCAA basketball regionals and a NBA farm team. However, he refuses to say when. That way, of course, when I as in 2020 what happened he will still be able to say ’someday’ without acknowledging that it didn’t happen.
I would like to see all of those rosy promises made back in 2002 about WaterWalk published today and analyzed for success/failure. I think after seven years we taxpayers have a right to see a report card.
re: the lawsuits. According to the City Sept 10, 2002 “Concurrently with the completion of the Master Plan, the City obtained options on the real property needed for the development of the project … ” So, why was the City vulnerable to suit if they had properly obtained options as claimed?
Some further comments from Sept 10:
“Developer agrees to pay an amount equal to projected taxes on the private sector guarunteed development … ” Is Developer paying that?
“Developer responsible for all outdoor maintenance including landscaping, public art, outdoor furniture, sidewalks and greenspace.” How is that workig out?
“Public improvements that include … waterway, riverbank improvements … ” Where are those?
“attractive public access to and along the entire Arkansas River frontage” – and then they build a warehouse right against the River
“pedestrian-friendly open areas” Where?
“achieve an integrated design that interfaces with … other key cultural and event centers.” And then the Developers want to destroy the Boathouse to make room for an office building for one of them.
People can call it a fiasco all they want. Most of that stems from developer hatred and envy. Although the WaterWalk is slow going, it has been making progress and yes, there are plenty of road blocks that causes the developers to change plans, but for where it is today, it is a whole lot better than what existed before they even tore down the first condemned building.
As long as there is progress and improvement, then I feel confident that we are getting somewhere.
It’s like the complainers and skeptics has about trying to developed the warehouse district. “Can’t be done!” “Waste of time and money” “Dirty” “will amount to nothing” and etc.
Well, I guess it’s never good enough for them.
I have complete faith that Downtown Wichita is going to be a fantastic place. It’s getting there already and more will come. Wichita is emerging as a 1st class city. And I for one am very excited about it and I encourage all the developers who are actually doing something to transform it to keep on going. Blow-off the naysayers and the complainers.
“developer hatred and envy.”
Typicak dodge designed to avoid facing the facts. I am quite proud of the successful developers in out community; developers who risk their capital and who have the entrepenurial spirit. That is NOT what we have seen at WW. While that ‘development’ has foundered provate developments like the Waterfront have been completed and are successful.
And the attitude of “blow-off the taxpayers who are footing the bill” does NOT help. Such arrogance coupled with incompetance is doubly bad.
East Bank was a prime location ripe for PRIVATE development. That was blocked so that sweetheart deals could be given to those who have spent far too many years at the public trough. Had we allowed private enterprise to develop it we would have a complete project by now – just like Waterfront.
Interesting discussion. A couple of comments:
1. Aircapguy’s chronology is essentially correct as I understand it.
2. I think that any observer ought to be cautious about assigning blame directly to the developers of WaterWalk. There’s no question whatsoever in my mind that had the Bass Pro deal gone down – and don’t let people tell you that deal was a myth; it was not, and it was close to happening – WaterWalk would be up, running and prospering.
Bill, I do not know just how ‘real’ the Bass Pro deal was or was not. All I know is that seven years into this thing we seem to have seen little progress – particularly when compared to private sector developments such as Waterfront. And, for that, the buck has to stop somewhere. I agree with acg that there is a lot to share among City, staff, developers, and the rest.
As the guy who is paying for this I do not believe I am being unreasonable in asking for a full and complete accounting of what has happened and what is happening. Blowing off the taxpayers is the absolute wrong thing to do; they need to be getting us on board with some sort of shared vision for WW.
And, I assure you – the citizens of this City do NOT want OUR Boathouse destroyed so one of the developers can build his Value Place headquarters on that prime piece of property. I would add that many of us who want good river access are not very happy with the warehouse they built right on the river either.
It is not called “blame”; it is called ACCOUNTABILITY.
I understand your sentiments about the Boathouse, Ben. Just want to convey my view as an outsider, which is that this project was beset by some bad political maneuvering out of the gate – machinations that, in my opinion, the developers are still trying to recover from.
I, too am an outsider to all this. However, I have been ‘involved’ from the start as you can see from the ’sanitized’ Council minutes. I think we have discussed before the need for the City to obtain citizen input on its projects. Unfortunately such input is ignored.
I think such input might be aprticularly useful from citizens who have lived in other cities. We have seen successful revitalization efforts; we have also seen ubsuccessful projects. Unlike ‘hired gun’ consultants we have a vested interest in success – we live here, work here, and have invested here.
Commerce Street is moving forward. The reason: it is being driven by the entrepenurial spirit of the arts community. It is developing bottom up; not in a centrally planned top down fashion. I hope they all make a lot of money there.
I am optimistic that will happen, Ben, through the joint efforts of Jeff Fluhr – a native of Louisville and Baton Rouge – and the mayor.
I hope you are right Bill. I know that many Wichitans are losing patience with WW and the other taxpayer subsidized projects downtown. The $6 million for Warren didn’t help – Oscars must be the only sports bar in Wichita that isn’t thriving! Ironically, it may be the arts community that will breath life into much of the Old Town area. There is a spark of that up at Old Town Square and, of course, Commerce St.
At the County backlash from the Arena resulted in a big change in the County Commission. James Barfield came fairly close to doing something similar at City. I suspect the schisms in local government are going to make things VERY interesting when additional public monies are needed for these things.
A rather interesting coalition has emerged: the ‘economic right’ represented by Karl Peterjohn and a sort of ‘populist’ viewpoint represented by Parks and Welshimer. At City I think Skelton also is there – he justly wants some attention paid to the underserved south side and correctly sees unlimited spending downtown as an obstacle to that.
We need to see the business community get involved in downtown. While we have the MN guys with some parts we just don’t see anyone willing to put money on the table for WW. That hardly inspires condidence.
We also need to see something in WW for ‘the rest of us’. All I see there is a building of very high-dollar condos and the water features/amphitheater being eliminated because they don’t want the ‘noise’ those might bring.
WW was advertised as Wichita’s “great meeting place” where people from east and west sides would go. Never mind that the same claim had been made about Old Town.
In January 2010 the Arena will open. I hope they are ready. Both at the Arena itself (with something to attract me there) and WW etc to give me a reason to linger. It will be interesting to see what happens.
From the discussion about the College hill ‘brownstones’:
“Good luck selling them, they are in a transitional neighborhood with the ghetto slowly moving in from the north and west.”
That area is also the area to the north and east of Old Town/Downtown. This my focus on improving the surrounding ‘do-nut’ to support downtown. Consider a ‘center point. at Broadway and Douglas and draw a circle with a radius of five miles. That 79 square miles is the key to making downtown successful – not just the couple of square miles of the core itself.
I agree. I wouldn’t be quick to dismiss the marketability of those brownstones. Location, location, location.
location – but note the poster’s comment about location. That is my concern – until we deal with the surrounding areas we cannot make it work – precisely because of location.
I know. I hear from the impatient quite a bit.
Here’s the thing, though: Downtown redevelopment doesn’t happen overnight. If you’ve looked at any credible academic work on the subject, it’s at best a 20-year process and sometimes longer.
Alex Garvin, who I wish everyone in Wichita could have had a chance to hear, substantiates that point.
I’ve grown inclined to view the seven years of WW as a relatively brief period, given what the Mayans council did to them out of the box, the delays caused by the arena and infrastructure and then the economic decline.
It goes back to fairness, I think. I want to see what Bob Layton thinks about the development and how he interacts with the developers.
I too want to see what Layton thinks and does. However, I disagree with you about 7 years being short. For the ENTIRE downtown projects 7 years might be short; however that has been going on for almost 20 years now. The big breakthrough there might have been when we put together the Gilbert/Mosley remediation effort to remove that cloud over downtown.
Ben is making some excellent points.
Downtown development does take a long time, but I say they started getting serious about it back in the early 90’s. Hyatt hotel, replacement of the Douglas and Lewis street bridges, Delano, partial River Corridor (Keeper of the Plains), Exploration Place, Old Town, Rail bridge project, Downtown Arena, many vacant buildings turned into apartments.
It’s not doing to bad. But that being said, I’m always amazed at the speed of other countries. Hong Kong, Macau, Taipai, Manila, Tokyo and Singapore are just examples of places I’ve been too several times within a 10 year period. You should see what they can do in a 3 year period. It’s amazing. Yet, here in the States it’s a snails pace.
Just look at Dubai. Have you ever seen the Before and After photos of what Dubai looked like in 1995 to 2000 then to present? Amazing.
Of course these are huge world-class cities that have tons of investment going there. So it isn’t really fair to compare Wichita to them. But then I see the delay of the Freedom Tower…oh I mean.. World Trade Center One (they changed the name) and that has been a fight for 7 years.
I had great hopes for WaterWalk, but the scaling down and the slow pace does make you wonder if anything will be there at all or will it be a fraction of what the original plans envision it to be. I can see for the need for changes, but now? I don’t know.
I used to live in College Hill (from 1980 to 2004) and I can tell you one thing, that the College Hill community is a very tight net group of home owners who are very upbeat about the Parkstone development, also when homes in that area come on the market they tend to sale sell quickly and for more than older homes in other parts of Wichita, I sold my home in under 30 days. It is one the premier areas in Wichita for older homes and I beleive it is going to stay that way. I used to walk by the old Wichita Clinic/State Office building a lot when I did 3 mile walks through College Hill and the unsightly building made we ill when I walked pass it. I am very happy that Parkstone is being developed and I hope this Bad economy does not kill it. Thanks to Mike Loveland and Bill Livingston and To the City Of Wichita for for moving this project forwards and I wish you good luck in the future on Parkstone.
acg – you are correct that College is one of the most pleasant – and walkable – areas in Wichita. And, in a way you prove my point: we need more strong neighborhoods in the “near-downtown” area like College Hill. They don’t necessarily need to be as high a demographic as CH but they need to be solid.
Let’s get behind initiatives like the South Central Improvement Alliance and others who are trying to upgrade these neighborhods.
Well, given the obstacles WaterWalk has faced – and let’s be clear that some significant ones don’t fall directly on the developers’ heads – I don’t believe seven years is a long time at all.
Let’s see where Layton – who’s an extremely impressive leader, BTW – takes this project in consort with the developers.
I am all for these near-downtown area improvements like the South Central Improvement Alliance, the 21st Street North Revitalization and Nomar International Marketplace, Delano Neighborhood Revitalization, the the Center City Neighborhood (CORE) north of downtown, and the midtown area improvements. As these near-downtown area neighborhoods improve and attract more people it will also help the downtown core area attract more business and people. When I lived in the College Hill community I received a discounted bank loan for being a first time homeowner through a city program. They also had a program for homeowners under a certain income level, mostly older people on a fixed incomes to get free paint, that really helped improve some of the older homes in the area.