Despite the construction, things may not be as rosy in Manhattan as first glance might suggest.
Many blame the anticipated return of more troops to Fort Riley for the March elimination of 61 positions and the closure of two programs at Mercy Regional Health Center in Manhattan.
Why? Those swell of troops, anticipated for several years now, has just not happened yet and businesses that invested lots of money to beef up services and employees are now facing tough decisions about sustaining that growth.
No kidding! I have many friends in the health system and the physician stories are seemingly unbelievable! Part of the “god” syndrome? Probably. It’s a cultural problem, I think; that we allow such disrespect towards these other professionals challenges the definition of treating patients/co-workers with human dignity and respect.
No White Castle in Tulsa. However, according to its Web site, it appears you can get them in some stores around here. Although I’m not sure why anyone would want to do that.
Looks like the nearest Krystal is in Fayetteville.
That’s ridiculous! Why can’t the police allow 5 minute coffee parking at their coveted but seldom used parking spots? Apparently to “serve and protect” doesn’t apply to a cup of coffee!
Given the surfeit of high-end condo/loft housing materializing, I think what downtown really needs is Whole Foods Market. (The real Whole Foods, not the vitamin shops we already have.) Anybody with me?
I’m with you! Great idea. Or a Trader Joe’s. Or even just a nice local grocery store. It’s almost blasphemy to suggest a Dillon’s or a Wal-Mart downtown. That would ruin the feel that is being created down here. Instead of crying because you can’t get a pint of fried rice, a bottle of contact lense solution and a roll of toilet paper all in one stop, why not ask for: an Asian restaurant, a drug store and a small mom and pop grocery store – all within walking distance of each other. Actually, we already have Hana Cafe in Old Town. I’m sure you could get your pint of fried rice there. It would taste better too. We just need a drug store and a grocery store!
I think you missed the point, Snarky. I’m not saying the city is to blame. I’m saying retailers might be less likely to locate downtown if they can’t provide parking for customers nearby. And if one of the goals of the city is to get a more active downtown, which I think it is, the might want to give a retailer one or two spots in front of the business for people who are running in and out.
I’m all for walking. But when I’m on my way to work, I’m not going to park two blocks away, walk to get coffee and then walk two blocks back to my car. What’s the point?
Not Dillon’s, please! Having lived downtown for 14+ years, it would be great to have a decent small grocery/drug store downtown. Thankfully, we do have the farmers market on Saturdays where we can at least get fresh produce.
It boils down to this issue: As people move downtown to live, into the WaterWalk condos, into the other residential developments and into the new projects that will inevitably follow the arena, they’re going to need more essential lifestyle services.
The form those services take is anyone’s guess, but drugs, groceries, et al. are going to have to happen downtown in some form.
BRAVO!!!!! We’ve all been there, have we not? I purposely have NOT bundled because I have little confidence in their customer service support and genuine concern for the customer.
It’s AT&T rudeness & power over us, not just the bundling. Several years ago they would not let me transfer service, discuss charges or other programs until I first paid an amount $100.00 over anything I had ever been notified of. They won’t even let the new occupants have phone service for over a month.
Get’um Carrie. Deb Gruver would explain it to us but we need something done.
I think what Jean-Cyril Spinhead is trying to say is “We Frenchies would like to have an airplane that leaves a massive carbon footprint, burns more fuel than the space shuttle and have an aircraft capable of bankrupting Airbus”
To top his previous statement he claims: “High fuel prices makes the longer version important”
Renewing downtown Wichita by building a 1/2 billion dollar tax-financed downtown arena first was the total flopheaded approach by Wichita’s good old boy network, county commissioners and a small group of opportunist “hired guns” brought here temporarily to help “the little people of Wichita.”
A plan for development of downtown should have the first order of business.
Among the disasterous problems is the white elephant downtown arena is sitting on the site that should have been reserved for the 500 car parking area for a revitalized downtown passenger railroad station in Wichita’s grand old Union Station.
The downtown arena reminds me of that old nursery rhyme:
Humpty dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty dumpty took a great fall.
All the king’s horses and all the king’s men
couldn’t put Humpty dmpty back together again.
In short, the unwanted, unneeded downtown white elephant arena is going to be a rotten egg in the middle of trying to develop a great new downtown Wichita.
Lonnietheplummer said, “Government has to subsidize the wages of Wal-Mart employees through our social programs.”
I work at Wal-Mart and I get nothing from the government. You are wrong and you don’t know what you are talking about. Now, when I did work for a mom and pop hometown grocery store, I did receive government subsidies because they did pay minimum wage and that’s all they pay.
Any place where a single mother works, there will be subsidies, but don’t blame it on Wal-Mart.
Has Wichita become the unwanted step child of North Carolina and the east coast?
In the past several years, Wichita has regularly imported “hired gun” administrators from the southeastern states for some reason.
Now Wichita is considering hiring Pat Salerno, a washed up city manager from a Miami, Florida suburb for an exorbitant amount of money. Salerno is probably worth it in Florida where he knows the politicians, laws, developers, contractors, etc. But here in Wichita, it will take him several months to find the restrooms in city hall.
The recent Wichita downtown development director after working in Wichita for several years and not accomplishing anything but being part of the downtown arena debacle reportedly fled for some town in North Carolina.
George Kolb, recent Wichita city manager applied for a similar job in North Carolina.
And just reported in the past few days, Spirit Airplane Company is planning to build a new assembly plant, not in Wichita, but in North Carolina.
Ugh! No more Wal-Marts of any flavor in this town. Why don’t we have a Costco? I’d love a (real) Whole Foods too, but even in the entire KC metro area there’s only one so I don’t know if we have the population base.
I think Kansas is out of luck on a Trader Joe’s until we move our alcohol policies at least up to the 20th century… you need to be able to buy wine and beer (real beer, not that 3-2 crap) in a supermarket. I’d love to have one though. It’s one of the few things I miss about California.
California real estate is cratering fast, and the majority of those “exotic” mortgages haven’t even reset yet. We sold a house in So Cal in February 2003, and it subsequently increased another 50% in value over the next three years. According to zillow.com, it’s now worth about 10% more than what we sold it for.
As stated above by the EAGLE’s Dan Loving, USA TODAY reports that Wichita’s municipal airport will experience an 8% REDUCTION in flights by October. So presumably the city’s airport planners will immediately begin planning reduction of the size of the existing terminal and adjacent parking lots.
To avoid sawing off the west end of the airport terminal building, perhaps that space could be converted to additional space for Sheriff’s Steed’s jail. And perhaps a Quik-Trip convenience store could be built in the parking lot to serve airport passengers and employees.
Yeah, and it could be good for buying horses and train tickets, too! If the average American is priced out of flying AND driving, then horses and trains may be all that’s left to us if want to travel any distance! Good grief.
And motorcyles, motor scooters and bicycles. Funny thing … the big jet airplane manufacturers are now trying to build even bigger airplanes.
Perhaps China with 1.3 billion people is buying. Its my understanding that Chinese technicians are all over the world exploring for oil.
Reminds me of the theory by some historians that Japan inadvertently started WWII in 1941 in an expanded search for more petroleum for their growing industries.
We can’t stop progress even if we don’t like it. the wealthy run the economics of this world. If they want more business jets, that’s fine. It won’t make a huge dent in the commercial market anyway – I mean who do you fly with? Big business flies their execs on business jets most of the time already. the mid-level managers are still going to be flying in the cheapo seats on airliners, there is no way these companies can justify sending their low-paid help on a business jet that costs thousands of dollars per hour to operate. Its not a big deal to the average consumer.
The real problem is that gas prices are going up and so are fares on comercial airlines. Business jet sales will not change that. It’s a simple supply and demand issue, like everything else in the economy.
There is a major point missed here. It is not just sales of business jets that will benefit from the airline cutback, it is also turboprops and piston airplanes, new and used. All of General Aviation will benefit. Business leaders are discovering that General Aviation is a valuable business tool and not all that expensive.
It is not possible to get new businesses to locate in the area without significant financial consideration from government. Yet, that consideration is definitely unfair to other existing businesses. Aircraft parts manufacturer Lopresti got $40 million just for its location. Piper Aircraft got $35 million to remain in its location. If government wants the businesses and therefore the jobs and tax revenue, it must pay. Said another way, your job may only exist because your government bought it. Sure it is unfair to existing businesses, but what else do you do? How about some ideas?
The ICON of the American dream is the Statue of Liberty. It promises freedom, liberty and justice for all … not based on class structure, race of ethnicity … but based on honest hard work by each person to achieve his/her goals and ambitions, thereby helping not only themselves but society generally.
Is this dream still available and achievable? Or has it evaporated like the huge billowing cumulus clouds after a spring rain?
The great old Broadview Hotel was opened for business in 1921. Builder and, I believe owner for a time, was George Siedhoff, a contractor who built some of Wichita’s best buildings back in the 1920’s and 30’s. Coming from Kansas City and eventually retiring in Emporia, downtown Wichita would be a lot less than it is now without his contribution. Unfortunately most of his buildings are now reaching “old age” and need to be renovated before its too late.
On the west side of the Broadview Hotel, between the hotel and the Arkansas river, was the headquarters of the Arkansas Valley Interurban lines that extended throughout the Wichita metropolitan area to places like Newton, Halstead, Hutchinson and presumably south as well.
Also the famous “island” in the Arkansas River which contained the baseball park that later burned down. The Lawrence-Dumont Stadium was built in 1936 to take its place. A government WPA project wiped out all traces of the old island.
During the middle 1920’s, headquarters of Travel Aire airplane manufacturing company was located on Douglas just west of the Arkansas River. It was on the south side of Douglas just west of today’s Metropolitan Baptist Church. The Baptist Church is on a site of the old Midland railroad station.
Oops, I almost forgot too mention, in the mid-twenties, Travel Aire was owned by Clyde Cessna, Walter Beech and Lloyd Stearman. Prior to WWII, Boeing from Seattle bought the Stearman airplane manufacturing company. Wichita’s Walter Innes and a Pratt banker (Peoples Bank of Pratt) were said to have assisted these air pioneers with financing at meetings in the old abandoned house on the Ninnescah River bluff five miles east of Pratt.
Under the Broadview, it was said a “speakeasy” existed in a former large restaurant during prohibition days but does anyone alive today actually remember this?
I’ve been told a coffee cup sign hung along the south exterior wall of the hotel marking the entrance to the hotel coffee shop probably in the 1940’s or 1950’s. However, I can’t find a photograph that shows the cup sign.
The Koch engineering company was located in a rather nondescript building on the south side of Douglas from the Broadview Hotel until the 1960’s then they moved up north to make way for Century II. The original Fred Koch had officed in the present day Boathouse at Lewis and the Arkansas River for some 15 years before moving his company to the building across Douglas from the Broadview Hotel.
Presumably the Broadview Hotel coffee shop got a lot of usage from the Koch entourage across the street.
And some people tell about dancing the night away in the old rooftop gardens on top of the Broadview Hotel. Glenn Miller orchestra anyone?
It seems the Broadview Hotel represents the icon of Wichita business history. Much more there than the bricks and mortar of a regular hotel building.
Is there any question the Broadview should be renovated and returned to its former days of glory?
Wichita has had a city manager form of government of some kind since 1917. Apparently Wichita’s Rotary Club championed the city manager form of government in 1916. For many, many years, Wichita had a five member city commission plus the city manager. According to a list I have, the first three city managers were L.R. Ash, L.W. Clapp and R.C. Elliott.
In 1927, a local fellow, a Quaker, who had worked in Wichita’s city engineering department, Bert C. Wells, was appointed Wichita City Manager and continued on until WW II. (I’m not sure what year he left the job.) He was well liked and could do everything asked of him but one … it was said he couldn’t give a speech!
It was during Mayor Bob Knight’s reign that the five member city commission was changed to the present seven member city council.
Even so, Wichita has one of the most conservative, “strong” city manager plans in the nation. In Wichita, the mayor can’t even hire an assistant or secretary or purchase an office chair without the permission of the city manager.
If our City Council had any saavy, what should have happened before hiring a permanent city manager was to establish a blue ribbon citizens committee to consider revising Wichita’s city charter and manager plan to give more power to the Mayor so he could adequately represent the voters of Wichita. Now the Mayor more or less takes orders from the city manager.
But if the current seven member city council wants a city manager who will run everything so they don’t have to do any work to earn their $35,000 per year per council person … then they have got their man.
The title of P.J. Griekspoor’s ethanol commentary above should be lengthened as follows: Ethanol cuts gas prices, has little impact on food (according to some unknown commodity strategist) … BUT IN KANSAS AND ADJACENT STATES ETHANOL PRODUCTION USES GIGANTIC AMOUNTS OF OUR VALUABLE WATER FROM THE ALREADY DECLINING DEEP UNDERGROUND OGALLALA AQUIFER.
From my examination of various sources of information about ethanol production, every gallon of ethanol requires some 10 to 20 gallons of new water, over and above recycled water used in the process. The water is then discharged as a wet mass of stinking, air polluting sour mash effluent generally put in slit trenches by a battery of Catepellor tractors. This effluent then taints the shallow layers of soil around the ethanol plant or is fed to hogs and cattle in industrial farms.
These ethanol plants will hasten the coming day when Kansas will run out of its wonderful natural resource … the relatively pure underground Ogallala aquifer water for municipal drinking water supplies across the state.
Then Kansans will be relegated to obtaining its municipal water supplies from the already polluted surface river waters such as from the Arkansas River in Wichita.
Note to politicians: The best locations for ethanol plants would be at the outfall pipes of treated regurgitated sanitary sewage from our large urban sewage treatment plants. Or along the lower Mississippi River capturing billions of gallons of muddy Mississippi river water rushing towards the Gulf of Mexico.
Governor Sebelius and Senator Brownback: Can we offer you a glass of polluted drinking water from Wichita’s Arkansas River?
I fly between London and New York every few weeks. If your paper suddenly needs you to cover some business news in London, I suggest you fly Virgin Atlantic.
You get to check two bags, and are allowed one carry-on, along with a handbag.
The staff are always pleasant, even funny, and they feed you well.
I flew in on Tuesday, and not only did I get dinner, but pretzels, a choice of juice or soda, water, ice cream (in addition to the dessert), and a brownie with coffee a few hours later. They will give you as much juice, soda, and/or water as you want.
The planes are always clean. In addition, they give you a nice little bag with some useful items, like flight slippers and a toothbrush. Pillows and blankets are standard.
Not to mention the fact that ethanol has a lower BTU content than gasoline so it takes more of it to do the same work, thereby aggravating the above mentioned conditions. The extra fuel required to grow all that corn, transport it to ethanol plants and then deliver it for use places an added burden on the diesel supply. And don’t forget the already terribly expensive supply chain for the man made chemical fertilizers used on those crops. Ethanol will never be anything but a wasteful short term solution to a much larger problem.
“According to Earthjustice’s own account, ” UNDER THE LAW GOVERNING THE PROGRAM and RUS’s agreements with Sunflower, RUS must also approve any expansion of Sunflower’s plants and any new loans that Sunflower seeks from non-government sources.”
A shill and a numbskull?
Perhaps, Earthjutice interpreted that NOT as saying they “must approve” like they HAVE to approve, but as in Sunflower must have their approval.
Which they didnt. Why not ask the question, why didnt Sunflower SEEK the approval as required by… wait for it… THE LAW!
Jesus WEPT!
RUS loans money WHEN APPROPRIATE.
It isnt automatic. There is an approval PROCESS.
In otherwords, Sunflower needed to follow the process. Which Earthjustice doesnt believe they did.
Apparantly, they only sought PJ’s approval. With the media in their pocket, what else did they need?
Rural Utility Service is part of the gargantuan U.S. Department of Agriculture in Washington D.C. This organization probably has hundreds of attorneys and law students on its staff … hardly a defenseless, toothless organization.
My the Rural Untility Service staff understands there is no Democratic or Republican way, no liberal or conservative way of solving our environmental problems … just the way that will provide an environmentally sound way of life for American citizens.
Francisco Blanch is hardly unknown. Dr. Blanch received his Doctorate in Economics from Complutense University of Madrid. He received a Masters degree in Public Administration from Harvard and a graduate degree from UC-Berkeley.
Dr. Blanch is Head of Global Commodity Research for Merrill Lynch. Before that he was an Analyst and Commodity Strategist, also for Merrill Lynch. Merrill Lynch has offices in 36 countries and has control of $1.8 trillion in client assets. To be employed by Merrill Lynch is an achievement. To be the head of a Merrill Lynch group is an extremely significant achievement.
Dr. Blanch is widely published, with 400 – 500 quotations readily available on line and several hundred quotations or opinions in print each year. He is used as a research source by a large number of companies in the commodity business, including many Fortune 500 companies. He is one of the most widely recognized sources of credible opinions in the world commodity industry.
Buswriter: I do appreciate extensive resume of education and experience in a complicated field such as you ascribe to Dr. Francisco Blanch. And yes, I had stockbroker friends working for Merrill Lynch in Kansas City back in the 1970’s although my accounts were with other firms.
My response is Dr. Blanch is most likely correct about ethanol economics although he did point out an extensive list of related drawbacks.
My concern and concern of other critical commenters here on the Wichita EAGLE blogs is generally the danger of ethanol production withdrawing humongous quantities of water from Kansas’ underground Ogallala aquifer located under most of western Kansas and the Equus Beds aquifer located near Halstead.
Wichita gets roughly 1/2 its drinking water from the Equus Beds aquifer near Halstead. The other 1/2 comes from Chaney Reservoir, a manmade lake which receives its water from the north branch of the Ninnescah River. Both branches of the so far always running Ninnescah River essentially begin in Pratt County, 75 miles west of Wichita.
The source of water in both branches of the Ninnescah Rivers is essentially seepage upward from the Ogallala aquifer. Unfortunately the upward rise of Ogallala water particularly between Hutchinson and Kingman absorbs some salt from the salt layers giving the Ninnescah Rivers some salt pollution in recent years.
My point is the state of Kansas is DEFINITELY NOT A GOOD LOCATION FOR ETHANOL INDUSTRIAL PLANTS NOR COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS. As I have said before, preferred ethanol production locations would be the outfall of sewage effluent in major urban cities across America. Perhaps the treated solids in the sewage effluent might actually increase the miles per gallon of the ethanol produced from that source.
Or perhaps good locations along the Mississippi River in Louisiana utilizing the muddy river water from Old Man River as it rolls toward the Gulf of Mexico.
But Kansas is not the proper location for these water gulping ethanol plants or coal fired power plants.
The “economics” of ethanol would be VERY different if big corn, big irrigation, and ethanol production were NOT being heavily subsidized by YOUR tax dollars. If ethanol had to truely pay its way, consumers would not be saving money at the pump.
And I wonder how much of their “savings” at the pump are lost by increases in taxes? Not to mention the ozone problems caused by burning ethanol. And it’s less efficient in the tank. Let’s see some analysis here.
But this part of the post is true:
“The real culprits in escalating food prices are rapidly increasing oil prices, increased global demand for meat and grains, commodity speculation, the declining value of the dollar, droughts and bad weather.”
If there’s ten cents of wheat in a loaf of bread, the price of wheat could double and it would increase the price of bread very little.
The biggest objection I have about ethanol is, as Wink pointed out, the water it uses. Not only in processing, but in irrigating corn and transporting it as well. And there are opportunity costs for planting other grains when corn and ethanol are so heavily subsidized.
Put the ethanol plants somewhere besides the Great American Desert. Develop OTHER sources for starch than grain. That technology isnt as near as big ag shills want you to think.
In fact, it’s really no closer to reality than “magic algae”.
Wichita has very little in common with Sunrise. Development in Sunrise was driven by EXTERNAL factors – the larger cities nearby. Wichita is a stand-alone city and must find developments that will likewise stand on their own. Salerno has not shown that he knows anything about that.
“There but for the grace of God goes … Kansas and Wichita.”
Was just watching more distress stories about the floods in Iowa. It’s unbelievable. Question is: could this conflaguration happen right here in Wichita/river city?
Anytime you have an eight inch rain, you will have a flood, even if you are standing on the top of a hill.
Here in Wichita, we have the flood ditch around the main part of Wichita. However, the gravel embankments would only last an hour or so at full flow before collapsing from the velocity of the water flow.
And what if tornadoes like the ones that struck Greensburg or Chapman/Manhattan last week … would hit Wichita? Is there any planning for these eventualities? If there is planning, it must be a well kept secret.
I’m very concerned about the deteriorating financial situation of McClatchy Corporation and by their newspapers, particularly the Wichita EAGLE, the Kansas City Star and I believe the newspaper in Olathe. Best wishes in pulling out of this nose dive.
bth: Not too mention that Sunrise is located in a different state with different laws, politicians, contractors, engineers, architects, problems, culture, etc. I expect one of Mr. Salerno’s first questions will be: Where’s city hall? Where’s the restroom? Is that the Missouri River flowing through town?
That lack of knowledge should give the GOBN about a year to get their ducks in order or find new jobs.
All the more reason to improve rail transportation. Even if not suitable for very long distances perhaps it would reduce the congestion at airports and make flying better for the long-haul traveller.
A side benefit of rail for Kansas. Instead of being ‘fly-over’ territory we might then get people to stop and see what’s here as they travel cross-country. When I toured Europe I visited numerous out-of-the-way places and found them much more interesting than the regular tourist stops.
“He (Salerno, the new $250,000/year Wichita city manager, including salary, perks, termination guarantees and don’t forget, sumptious snacks) guided construction of an arena in Sunrise, Florida.”
My reply: So did some 50 to 100 white elephant arena cheerleaders here in Wichita … to “give the little people of Wichita an new recreational venue,” (while emptying those “little peoples” billfolds of half billion dollars in sales taxes behind their backs).
But now that the up front money has been spent on lavish parties, most of those fly-by-night arena cheerleaders have moved on to other “river cities,” to sell non-existent band uniforms … with the exception of the three holdover Sedgwick county commissioners, Tom Winters, Dave Unruh, Tim Norton.
Why no mention of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas? Or Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City? Or Delta Dental Insurance Companies? Perhaps they are on the longer lists.
Each state should establish a “Health services users council,” and eventually blend these into a “National health services users council.” At least 10% of members should be individuals responsible for the health care of large diverse families.
And no doctors should be allowed on these “health users councils.”
Actually, in my comment above, I should have said every state should establish a “health services users ROUNDTABLE.” The term “Roundtable” was used in the large building and highway construction industry beginning some thirty years ago with what I thought to be some success.
I believe its easily forgotten the “users” side of any industry has a lot at stake in these service issues. For example, in the health care industry, in my opinion, doctors are the last ones who should be asked for advice on how to make improvements … they will be self serving every time.
It’s pathetic that Joyland cannot be resurrected. The infrastructure and brand are there; but the location is out of style. Big deal, not all of us are addicted to far east or far west Wichita.
Joyland borders I-35. That fact should be exploited and the western side of the park built up so that it is obvious from the highway, like Frontiertown in Oklahoma City.
I worked at Joyland when I was a kid. Does anybody know that Joyland once had it’s own locomotive diesel engines in a building behind the roller coaster, and generated it’s own power? The place is living history, and needs to be rescued.
Wild West World was a pie-in-the-sky idea from the very beginning. Ugly, corny, barren and too commercial.
TUESDAY EVENING, 6/17/08 ABOUT 9:30 PM: A few minutes ago, I drove over the Kellogg flyover near downtown Wichita. From a point near Lawrence-Dumont Stadium, I noticed the almost full moon rising up from the southeastern horizon.
I recall the June full moon is known as the “strawberry moon” by the Shawnee Indians, presumably because its strawberry picking season no matter what your culture.
Technically, the full Moon is not full until tomorrow, Wednesday, June 18th. The Moon is precisely full when it reaches a point every 29 days on the opposite side of the earth from the sun. Checking a moon chart, I see the moon will be precisely full tomorrow just after noon … but, alas, for us here in Wichita, the moon will be out of sight, on the other side of the Earth, presumably somewhere over China at noon tomorrow.
But no problem. The moon will continue to look full tomorrow night and even the next night as it begins to wane away from the full moon position.
Tomorrow evening, Wednesday, June 18, the strawberry full Moon will rise at 9:22 PM over the southeastern horizon. A few minutes earlier, the sun will have set on the other side of the earth. The few minutes difference is due to geometry, parallax and dust/rain droplets in the atmosphere.
************************
By coincidence, and with no astronomical connection, the summer solstice on the longest day of the year and shortest night will take place a couple days later on Friday/Saturday, June 20th and 21st. Some people call the summer solstice the beginning of summer … I consider it the middle of summer because on that day the days begin to grow shorter bringing on the fall and winter months.
The summer and winter seasons are brought to us courtesy of the 23 1/2 degree permanent tilt of the earth to the line vertical to the horizontal line from the Earth to the Sun. So thank your Intelligent Designer for this wonderful life giving tilt.
Ksfarmgirl:
are you aware that the “magic algae” was not Steve Miller’s proposal. It is the brain child of the K-State related organization NISTAC, which conceived the integrated bioenergy park and asked Sunflower to partner in the project. Which Sunflower agreed to do. AND Nistac intends to proceed with the project regardless of the coal plant outcome. In reality, what you call “magic” algae is in advanced stages of commercial development, which is a lot more than can be said for “magic” batteries that can store wind power and feed it out to the grid when needed.
and others, I stand behind my statement that steve miller’s press release was your major source. Did he direct you to Nistac? Or vice versa? Which came first here, the chicken or the egg? ‘Cause your “sources” certainly are birds of a feather.
Of COURSE the two have each other’s backs.
There is substantial professional disagreement about how “near” commercializtion that technology is. Yet, your foxlike “fair and balanced” pieces have NEVER included comments from those who believe this technology is a looooong way from being viable commercially.
I never said a damn thing about wind. But the fact that you brought it up in such a negative way tells me you really ARE shilling for big coal and steve miller.
Heheheh. The best you can do is to say “yeah, well, it’s better than wind….”
Hell, a sharp stick in the eye is better than being fatally gutted by a Bowie knife too, but that is little defense for a sharp stick.
But please, if it makes you feel better, attack wind instead of doing BALANCED research on the magic algae.
I’m calling you out on your shilling. I wonder if it will matter then next time you get an opportunity to write a very misleading, one sided article about coal.
Or ethanol. Yet another of steve miller’s projects. You know, among many statements, he says the coal plant expansion is needed because of ALL the ethanol plants in the desert area of sw ks.
So… when the water is gone for corn irrigation and ethanol processing, will Sunflower’s end users get stuck with the stranded asset at Holcomb and be holding the bag for repaying all those loans?
You need some schoolin’ there kiddo. Believe it or not, steve miller isnt the only opinon you should publish. Some info from those who oppose Holcomb and ethanol plants in the desert my actually give you info instead of press releases.
Oh, and btw, will you be shilling for HFCS next? It’s gotta be in a Corn Grower’s Association press release somewhere. Jere is thorough.
“In reality, what you call “magic” algae is in advanced stages of commercial development”
So… why dont you tell us the projected date it will be commercially viable?
Because if you dont have such a date, such weasel words as “advanced stages” mean no more than steve miller’s empty promises.
What the hell does “advanced stages” mean? Are they experimenting at Holcomb? Then say so. Dont act like it’s ready to go if it’s not.
And btw.. how much WATER is it going to suck up and are the water amounts to be used included in the 30,000 acre feet of water sunflower says it has secured? Or will it require additional water rights, and are THEY secured?
Seems like somewhere closer to reliable water would be a better place to test this “magic alge” technology.
Somewhere like an ethanol plant in Iowa, Illinois, or Missouri… Why would you test such a water hog in a declared drought area like sw kansas.
You DO know governor “leadership” declared counties down there to be in drought emergencies? How will THAT affect the water available for all of Sunflower’s projects and the ethanol plant.
Water is the biggest issue of this decade and the next. Why dont you report on those issues?
Or does big ag pay you enough to ignore the water issues?
Mrcontroversy … I’m not sure what you mean by “whether the Eagle likes it or not.” Can you enlighten me? As far as I’m concerned, I can’t wait for U-verse. The competition will be good.
Actually, PetroSun, an Arizona-based company, began a commercial algae to biodiesel operation on 1,100 acres of saltwater ponds in Rio Hondo, Texas on April 1 of 2008. They plan to produce 4.4 million gallons of biodiesel and 110 million pounds of biomass annually and have reserved 20 acres of ponds for testing algal jet fuel for the Department of Defense.
Give me a break!
Take that hit piece the Eagle wrote in January of 2007 that was slanted wayyyy too much toward Cox.
Take the fact that trying to get anything past Lori Linenberger regarding any of the four local stations Cox refuses to carry is tantamount to a act of espionage.
Take the fact that the Eagle–at the urging of the local cable company–took KCTU out of the TV listings in 1995. Now they say the TV listings are “a paid supplement”… never mind that the Monday through Saturday listings show no such annotation. Would the higher-ups at McClatchy like to know that the Eagle is giving Cox $20,200 a week in apparently free advertising?
And then there’s the whole TV guide thing… you ask the newsroom, they tell you it’s an advertising product; ask the advertising department and they tell you it’s “news content provided by Cox”.
Care for any MORE enlightenment?
The day I was liberated from Cox and went on to much better by the simple installation of a dish started out a good day. It wasn’t until I encountered the lack of customer service provided by Cox Communications that it went downhill.
The monthly bill came in the mail and I noticed a “converter box” rental had increased to $5 per month. I needed to be downtown for another reason so unhooked the box, tucked the bill into my purse and added that stop to my list of errands.
I was greeted pleasantly and asked how I might be helped when I approached the counter. I explained we didn’t use the television the box had been hooked to any longer so I wanted to return it and not be charged that monthly rental in the future.
After typing in some info I was told I wasn’t on the account and couldn’t make changes — only my husband could do that.
We need to back up a tiny bit so you will understand that I had personally set up our account with Multi-Media and my future husband moved into my house and my existing cable services after that point. Through the buy outs and changing of hands somehow now with this Cox Communications company he was the only person on the account. I don’t know when or who made that change, I just know it wasn’t either of us. Just as I won’t ever work on a small engine, my husband won’t ever interact with a cable company. That’s just not how it’s done at our house!
Back to the present and me standing at the counter trying to return the rented box.
I offered the bill that arrived in that day’s mail, several forms of ID showing I lived at that address. Nope! I couldn’t make changes to the account that was in my husband’s name. I asked for the Supervisor.
Long story short. I had to ask for the Supervisor’s Supervisor. Now, I’m seated at a desk of the third person I have explained my need to. Pleasantly, she repeated the “not on the account” meme. I asked if my husband could make changes over the phone and she said, “Yes.” She turned to her back bar, dialed the number I gave her and handed the receiver across the desk to me.
I said, Wayne, I’m at Cox and they need your permission for me to return a rented box. Now, hubby knows me and he knows this was code. Remember, he knew this was my area and needing his permission meant some “stuff” was going down. Some “stuff” he wanted to avoid! I handed the receiver back across the desk and after she and he exchange a few words she hangs up, turns back to me with the announcement that “Your husband, the account holder, said you had his permission to make changes.”
I asked if I could make any and all changes. She said, “Yes.” And she never even saw it coming!
A man on the other end of a phone number I provided gave me permission to make changes to his account. I don’t do business with people that stupid! I didn’t wonder for long whether they ever figured any of it out as I headed out the door after canceling the account in its entirety!
The day they could have ruined turned out to be a great day! I have a superior product, superior customer service and a lower price. All because they decided I wasn’t on the account!
This sounds ALMOST as bad as my experiences with Verizon Business Solutions since their takeover of MCI. Unilateral changes in service conditions, false billings, overcharges, etc.
I wonder if Alltel cellphone customers will have similar problems with Verizon cellphone.
PetroSun went commercial with its 1,100 acre saltwater algae farm in Rio Honcho, Texas on April 1.
GreenFuel Technologies (same company that did the pilot at Holcomb) is building a $97 million commercial plant utilizing CO2 and Nitrogen gas from coal-fired electrical generation in Europe. It should be online sometime in 2009.
PJ – I hope as much as anyone that the algae technology can be commercialized. However, I also know that there is a very long road from lab to pilot plant to demonstration plant to full-scale commercial production. I have shepgerded tachnologies along that road. I have also seen too many technologies not make it the way down that road. So, my standing challenge to Sunflower remains: build such a plant at the existing Holcomb plant and I will believe it. (After K-State or WSU verifies it)
I know the science works; I am less sure about the engineerig.
Tom, ol buddy. That’s my company your pounding on. If you think about it, little miss Payton pulled the same thing that Darlene Drunyan did when she was at Boeing. Payton distorted the facts and the numbers to make Airbus look like it was the King. I think that congress should launch an inquiry to find out how and why the numbers were fudged to favor Airbus.
What is going to happen if the USAF decides to stay its course, those senators and congressmen who sided with TT will vote to cut funding for the project. Thats great for the people who are in the spares business which leads me to ask. Just where will the USAF get the spares for the A330 and will they get them in a timely manner. AOG’s need parts immediately and God forbid we do anything to upset the French.
I’m just curious as to what’s going to happen if Airbus loses out. Are they going to leave Mobile hangin for the costs of building the 600 million dollar plant and will they keep their promise to allow Northrop to build the A330 cargo plane?
The water issue for ethanol is a bogus issue. First, when agricultural land water rights are converted to industrial use, only half the agricultural water rights are available to the industrial user. Each acre of water rights purchased for use by an ethanol plant cuts the use of the water per acre in half. The ethanol plant would use half of the water the farmer would have used. The more land water rights converted to ethanol use, the greater the savings in water use per acre.
Very little irrigation is used to produce grain for an ethanol plant, at least in Kansas. According to data approximated from the Kansas Sorghum Producers Association, only 10% of the grain used for ethanol is corn and only a small portion of that is irrigated. Ninety percent of the grain used is grain sorghum and 90% of that is dry land grown. Notice that is possible for a farmer to sell the water rights for his land to an ethanol plant and then turn around and grow dry land grain sorghum to sell to the same plant. He wins both ways and the water use for the land is cut in half.
The numbers shown for water use are large and seem to be daunting. However, when the numbers are put in perspective a different picture emerges. According to City of Wichita data, the capacity of the City water plant is 105 million gallons per day. According to filings with the City from Abengoa when applying for water supplies for their Colwich plant, Abengoa wanted 821,000 gallons per day. That is 0.7% of the city capacity. By comparison, City documents show that Spirit Aerosystems uses 2 million gallons per day. Abengoa does not plan on using any agricultural land water rights at all and their entire water use will be less than half of that used by Spirit.
According to data provided by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, one of the states than keeps data on water use by ethanol plants, water use per bushel has declined by 20% in recent years. According to data from ethanol plant builder ICM Industries, the water use in 2007 for the plants it built is less than half of the water use reported state-wide by MN-DNR. Further, the technology already exists to use non-potable water. Newly constructed ethanol plants can use secondary water from water treatment plants and run-off from animal containment facilities.
Whatever the problems are with ethanol production, water use isn’t one of them.
Well, I am a member of Gen X too and do NOT think it’s okay to overdraw your checking account. Last year, I was livid with one of my vendors, who I pay online, when they took out the amount of my payment TWICE and overdrafted my account. So, at 35, I paid overdraft fees last year, but hadn’t paid them before that since I was 18. And to be honest, I thought I had over draft protection tied to that account. Surprise! I never sent the paperwork in. Luckily my bank waived the overdraft fees when I appealed to my vendor. (Who stilled claimed they were not at fault and that I had intentionally paid them twice!) I still had to pay fees to the vendor for reversing the payment to them. Not being responsible and paying these fees is a gigantic waste of money!!!
This could be fun. It does seem that the City did everything it could to run them off. Compare/contrast that to the $6 million handout they have for Bill Warren.
Thanks, Buswriter for sharing some of sound science. And thank bth for your sane comments. I, too, hope that algae promise will be realized. I know that a lot of the technology to get us past where we are today has yet to be developed. And that’s what I meant by my wind comment. I’m not against developing wind. I just think we have to realize that there are a lot of hurdles to cross before we get where we need to be. The people who wnat to pretend that algae is way out there like to pretend that wind batteries are just around the corner. In reality, both have a long way to go. I applaud the sincere, hardworking people who are trying to make real solutions happen. And that includes the people in the ethanol industy who are working to improve technology every day that goes by.
Algae farming, by the way, using pratically no water, especially the closed system they tested at Holcomb. Small amounts of waste water from the electric plant are captured to grow algae, but the water consumption is virtually zero. Most other systems use saltwater or brackish water. Algae farms are absolutely NOT a water issue.
Retailers could do more to deal with the credit card costs than they are now doing. Our company accepts credit cards and has discovered some interesting details. First, the discount rate for all credit cards is not the same. The cheapest is Visa/Mastercard, Discover is in the middle, and American Express is the highest. There is a 2 1/2 % difference between Visa and AX. AX is so expensive that we chose not to accept their cards. Our prices have to be set to accept the discount rate of Discover and we make an additional 1 1/2 % margin on Visa.
We encountered a problem with one particular bank on a Visa card issued by them. We chose to add an extra 3% fee to the invoice if a customer wanted to present a card issued on that bank. It was an issue with a bank, not with Visa. Kansas law prevents the adding of a fee for credit card transactions. We increased all prices by 3% and granted a discount for all cards except that one. The bank received some complaints about the practice, eventually fixed the problem, and we eliminated the practice.
Think what would happen if retailers priced the product according to the impact of the discount rate that was applied to them. If Visa was 1 1/2 % less than the other cards and the price reflected that, it would not take consumers long to figure out that was the card to use. It would not take credit card companies long to see that the discount rates assessed to their retailer clients was no longer a secret and consumers were making purchase decisions on that disclosure. I’ll bet the discount rates would start dropping.
That brings me back to my challenge to Sunflower: build the algae plant NOW at the existing coal plant. Don’t rely on Neufield’s bogus claim that an experimental pilot plant would make a new coal plant carbon-neutral.
Isn’t the x factor here, though, the wholesale fuel buying power of QT and Kwik Shop? We’ve had several independent operators tell us that they need to charge more for fuel, but can’t because they are forced by the market to compete with the two major convenience stores.
“The people who wnat to pretend that algae is way out there like to pretend that wind batteries are just around the corner. In reality, both have a long way to go.”
Please dont assume I’m a fan of wind power. I’m not.
But thanks for FINALLY admiting that “both have a long way to go.” After you made it sound like algae was indeed “ready to go”. That was might point in the first place, and why we call it “magic algae”. It DOES have a long way to go to be commercially viable.
“Algae farming, by the way, using pratically no water, especially the closed system they tested at Holcomb. Small amounts of waste water from the electric plant are captured to grow algae, but the water consumption is virtually zero. Most other systems use saltwater or brackish water. Algae farms are absolutely NOT a water issue.”
Link please? “practically no water” is not a very specific term. “Small amounts of water water”? Link please. What is a “small amount”? And the water consumption cant be “virtually zero” unless the algae water is “virtually” all recycled. If it’s dumped at the end, it “consumes” one hundred percent.
Algae farms may not be a water issue in areas that have NOT been designated just this month as serious draught areas. Which is my point all along. Why put algae farms AND water sucking coal plants in a region that is notoriously short on water. Put it in eastern Kansas where there is more water.
“The people who wnat to pretend that algae is way out there like to pretend that wind batteries are just around the corner. In reality, both have a long way to go”
Dont assume I’m a fan of wind power. I’m not. But nice try of painting me with the wrong brush.
And thanks for admiting that “both have a long way to go”. That was my point about algae in the beginnning. Despite Steve Miller’s rosy projections, algae DOES have a long way to go to be commercially viable.
Unlike what you said here “In reality, what you call “magic” algae is in advanced stages of commercial development”. Thanks for admiting the truth.
Oh, and one more thing. The question I asked was if the water to be used by “magic algae” was included in the water use figures submitted in Sunflower’s original proposal to the state? I’m sure steve miller is on your speed dial…
I love your implication that my comments are not “sane”. And yet… you finaly admitted the truth on some, and ignored the others.
“The water issue for ethanol is a bogus issue. First, when agricultural land water rights are converted to industrial use, only half the agricultural water rights are available to the industrial user.”
Link please? I could be wrong, but I thought it was only reduced by twenty percent, not half.
No one challenged Jwink’s figures of about ten gallons of water for every gallon of ethanol. That is the figure we are looking at, not “water per bushel”. WTF? Nice try at mixing apples and oranges. “water use per bushel has declined by 20% in recent years” is very different than water used per gallon of ethanol. And I’d like a link to read it for myself.
“Very little irrigation is used to produce grain for an ethanol plant, at least in Kansas. According to data approximated from the Kansas Sorghum Producers Association, only 10% of the grain used for ethanol is corn and only a small portion of that is irrigated. Ninety percent of the grain used is grain sorghum and 90% of that is dry land grown.”
Link please? Pardon me for being suspicious of the sorghum producers potential for skewing the numbers. I’d like a link to read it for myself. As a resident of western Kansas, that isnt my experience at all. And I bet those figures dont apply to ALL ethanol plants. The ones in southwest Kansas, you know, the ones located in designated drought areas, use almost ALL irrigated grains. How much dryland corn and other grains besided wheat are grown DOWN THERE?
Comparing water usage as a percentage of total usage in the Wichita area with the usage in DROUGHT areas like southwest Kansas are apples and oranges. If you want to use your more plentiful water down there for ethanol, go for it. But it IS insane to be doing it in southwest Kansas.
And I note that you did not address someone else’s questions about the fuel usage to grow and transport those grains used by ethanol. That just goes to ethanol being energy negative. It USES more energy than it produces, as Wink pointed out.
“According to data from ethanol plant builder ICM Industries, the water use in 2007 for the plants it built is less than half of the water use reported state-wide by MN-DNR.”
Well then, since the BUILDER of ethanol plants says it is so, it must be so? Tautology. Link please? I thought the data from MN-DNR was about use per bushel, as in irrigation, not ethanol use. That is why links are so useful for verifying industry provided info.
“Further, the technology already exists to use non-potable water. Newly constructed ethanol plants can use secondary water from water treatment plants and run-off from animal containment facilities.”
That may be true (link please) but if so? Why arent they using that “existing technology” in southwest Kansas instead of using potable water. Just because they supposedly CAN use that tech, doesnt mean they are.
Why not?
Or.. does the technology “exist” but isnt, as we started this debate saying, “commercially viable”.
I tell ya, you gotta read the fine print carefully when dealing with industry shills. And almost ALL of buswriters “facts” are unlinked, and from industry sources that have a vested interest in promoting ethanol.
Good points ksfg. I have been around the ethanol industry; I am not a stranger there. I’d LOVE to see cellulosic ethanol. However I have my doubts about grain ethanol for a number of reasons.
To me the issue is not the water used by the ethanol plant but rather the irrigation/fertilyzer used in growing crops – especially in a semi-arid region like western Kansas.
It rains a lot in Minnisota; in fact rainfall is increasing with climate change. It does NOT rain much in western Kansas – and rainfall there is decreasing with the changes in the jet stream. (It’s ironic that we are so close to western KS and our rainfall is up. That is one of the quirks of the jet’s migration)
To the extent that supply/demand is influence the actions proposed will make things worse. We know that even with new drilling supply will only increase slightly. However, the message we are sending is that we plan to do NOTHING on the demand side of the equation.
We would be much better off if we acted swiftly to improve energy efficiencies, use more wind and nuclear, and conserve.
It is interesting to note that when Bush gave his speech oil prices shot UP.
Yeah Ben. I’d be a little more sympathetic to the use of water in processing if Russell hadnt teamed up with Hays to drain Cedar Bluff for their ethanol plant. And, make no mistake, the processing uses LOTs of water.
But I do agree, the even BIGGER problem is the irrigation/nutrients in the water supply, and and other issues with corn and sorghum grains that are harmful. And those are harmful to the precious and dwindling water supply whether the end product is used in ethanol or cattle feed. And the same holds true out here for soybeans, sunflowers, and canola used in biodiesel as well.
And did I mention they are ALL energy negative, not positive? heheheheh! It’s like spending a dime to save a penny.
And, as you know, I’m a BIG supporter of research and development, especially the kind funded by non-industry sources. I dont hate technology, but I also, as we say, dont appreciate someone whizzing on my leg and then trying to tell me it’s raining! When technology is ready for commercial or large scale application, let me know. But I’ve seen waaaay too much university generated technology sitting on a shelf waiting for someone to commercialize it or take it to the next step. The old SBIR grants used to be good, until the MIC guys and big pharma and Monsanto types took it over.
But I digress from the shifting rainfall patterns, the futility of growing irrigated grains in a desert, and our rapidly dwindling and irreplaceable water supply…
That’s why I always say the ethanol plants should be put where there is plentiful water, for both processing and grain. It would help slow the decline of the aquifer and surface water, and it would save on fuel costs by not having to truck the grains so far.
But the downside is, people live where there is water. And NIMBY is not just for breakfast anymore. Population centers dont want their water drained away either. It’s only popular where there is no water, and hence no people anyway. And in places that are so desperate they dont care HOW bad they ruin the quality of life.
However, like most trendy economic development schemes, now every little dying desert town out here thinks it NEEDS an ethanol plant. Here’s a tip.
It might bring a few bucks into a dying region in the short term, but in the long term? It wont stop the draining of the water supply. Unless folks out here want to drain not only their kid’s pocketbooks with the massive public debt we’re running up, AND they want to make sure NO ONE lives out here ’cause there’s no water…
They need to rethink the “wisdom” of both irrigation and ethanol in western Kansas.
Yet statistic after statistic indicates demand is down. Plus, there are some local refinery employees who question the supply-side issue as well. And none of that takes into account growing evidence that speculation is fueling at least part of the price run-up
So from this perch, I’m still looking hard at speculation as a culprit. There are too many vagaries in the supply chain, and too many experts skeptical of its impact, for me to buy the supply and demand argument today.
ksfg – I think they are building one near Newton and thinking about making it cellulosic. An interesting co-location idea is with a solid waste/recycling facility. Then feed cellulosic waste to the etahnol plant.
Heh Bill, so I repeat. Put a coupla oil men in charge and WTF did anyone expect?
I agree about the supply/demand hoax as well. I used to live in the Beaumont/Pt. Arthur area and my pals there on refinery row say the same thing. Whatever shortage there is on the supply side is manufactured. Seems that at least down there, the “invisible hand” isnt so invisible.
I think speculation is also the biggest culprit in the run-up in grain prices. Yes, world stocks have been at thirty year lows and world wide demand is up. However…
Wheat here is nine freakin’ dollars at harvest time! Usually this is when we see our lowest prices because everyone knows harvest is either in progress or about to start. And harvest quantities for wheat look good this year. Not great, but good.
So.. even the grain blogs like DTN say this run-up is the result of speculation, not users stocking up.
And what goes up… will come down. With inputs at triple of last year’s, mostly due to petroleum related products from tires to fertilizer to fuel, the farmers out here have much more at risk in every crop. Yeah, insurance and gummit programs mitigate the risk, but not entirely.
I feel a repeat of the late seventies, early eighties coming on. High prices, high inputs, land prices out of control, interest rates on the rise, credit crunches from failed or shaky financial institutions…
… and you have the perfect storm for auctions on the courthouse steps in 3-5 years.
Remind me sometime to explain my “airstream trailer theory”.
In short, there will be NO people out here. Just big corps owning MILES, not acres, of land. And it will all be farmed by 24 year old boys looking for adventure, like fire spotters and crab fishermen.
And they will be living in airstream trailers, with groceries, parts and supplies brought in three to four times per year.
Oh, and I chose 100 miles for a reason. Colby is about 100 miles from Hays, Hays is about 100 miles from Salina. Goodland is about 100 miles from Phillipsburg, which is about 100 miles from Topeka. Dodge City is about 100 miles from Hays, and about what, a little over 100 miles from Wichita…
You get the picture. It isnt exact, and I hope like hell I’m wrong, but you dont need a crystal ball or handwriting on the wall to see how this will all shake out.
When the water and people are all gone, I have two words for ya.
And to your point, Ben, about the dangers of fertilizer, this is what happens to be the ultimate destination of the nitrates used on THIS side of the continental divide.
Actually ksfg – I think the big culprit in the dead zone is land use and farming practices that lead to too much erosion and direct runoff. If water flowed to streams via interflow or other sub-surface flow it would be filtered and carry much less in the way of contaminants. Also, the use of filter strips along riparian zones would help.
OK, folks. Time to get serious on a couple of issues.
KSFG, I didn’t dispute jwink because if I disputed every weird number from jwink, I wouldn’t get anything else done and people expect me to do other things. Suffice it to say, Jwink came up with 10 to 20 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol. Even the wild-eyed crazies back off at about 6 gallons. I don’t do a whole bunch of web research. I’m more the interview and government filings and papers type. But if you google ethanol and water use, you’ll find a gamut of stuff and the top end is about 6 gallons. I used 3 gallons from the latest presentations of the Kansas Bioscience Authority and the International Ethanol Fuel Workshop which ended today in Nashville.
Now, let’s deal with the discharge of “wet mass of stinking sour mash.”
Jwink, don’t know where you live, but modern technology is contained affluent and dry distillers grain. Dry means dry. And it doesn’t get fed to pigs, because it contains fat and fiber and their single chamber stomachs can’t digest that. KSFG, that’s some of my “non-shill” research that didn’t come from press releases.
It’s cattle feed and comprises about one-third of the corn or grain sorghum taken in.
KSFG: The “Steve Miller” stuff is getting a little out of hand. I apologize to Steve that he was the tour guide that walked me through the plant when I came out to do on-site research and interview people which resulted in him being quoted. Jason somebody (MIT guy) I’m sorry you didn’t get credit for your research in the blog world.
One more time. It’s NOT Sunflower’s project. It belongs to NISTAC, the National Insitute for Strategic Technology Application and Research, which is by the way, a K-State affiliate. The Kansas Bioscience Authority put money into the pilot. Sunflower agreed to make a donation, be the site and partner in the project. BTH, Nistac says they are doing everything possible to move ahead. Let’s hope we see algae research in southwestern Kansas.
Correction to buswriter: I’ve been doing a bunch of online research and it appears your 90 percent of corn grown for ethanol is NOT under irrigation is wrong. The number should be 96 percent. And yes, KSFG, that is a Nationwid number and your point about desert country is well taken.
It does mean that cash customers have to pay the credit card price. Some retailers offer a discount for cash. The problem is that credit cards are so darned convenient.
The idea is to get retailers to create a pricing structure that accurately reflects their own cost of doing business. When consumers are able to control the competitive environment for credit card activities then card companies will become more interested in taking care of consumers. The retailer is caught in the middle.
So PJ, your position has gone from “commercially viable” to “Let’s hope we see algae research in southwestern Kansas.”
Cool. I think that’s the point. It is research, and miller and neufeld et al are blowing smoke up our collective hineys when they make it sound like the magic algae is ready to go. It’s not.
You are indeed correct about the gamut of figures regarding how many gallons of water it takes to produce one gallon of ethanol. Industry shills go with the low end three gallons figure, and Wink is not far off on his 8-10 gallons for some plants. Every plant is different, but I found this from ABC news. It is on the high end at 15 gallons. And it does not include irrigation, etc. which, in southwest Kansas and apparently Minnesota is a real issue. Maybe in Illinois and Iowa not so much, but certainly it is in Kansas.
“A longtime analyst of ethanol production disagreed with Martin and questioned his figures, saying it takes an average of about 15 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol much higher than the roughly three gallons of water per gallon of ethanol Martin cited.
Groundwater tables in some states, including Missouri, have been drawn down to dangerously low levels near some ethanol plants, said David Pimentel, an ecology and agriculture professor at Cornell University.
The figures cited by both Martin and Pimentel include only a plant’s production of ethanol, not the water it takes to grow corn. After adding that, about 1,700 gallons are needed to produce every gallon of ethanol, Pimentel said.
The entire water-use picture, coupled with the fuel it takes to produce ethanol, makes long-term, mass production of ethanol unsustainable, Pimentel said.
“I wish it were sustainable, I’m an agriculturalist,” he said. “I wish this whole ethanol deal was a major benefit, but you’ve got to be a scientist first and an agriculturalist second.”
I encourage readers to indeed google “ethanol + water usage” and read the information for yourself. Obviously industry shills want folks to think water is no big deal, and water activists like me want you to know it is a very big deal.
I’m also unimpressed with the “yeah, but ethanol doesnt use as much water as (fill in the blank)” arguments. There is already a shortage of water in all of western Kansas, but especially in southwest Kansas. Water sucking industries are not sustainable. And, as Wink noted, ethanol pollutes groundwater too, as you will find if you google as suggested.
Wink generally has his stuff correct when it comes to water issues.
I’m sorry you and I got off on the wrong foot PJ. However, I’ve been reading your ethanol stuff for quite some time, and it makes me LIVID when you only quote industry sources. I thought “fair and balanced” was the standard for journalists. I know how important ag is to Kansas (note my nic) but Kansas will be nothing but a Buffalo Commons if people here dont wake up.
Or, maybe, paraphrasing Sting, we should hope that Kansans love their children too. Why piss, moan and sigh about economic development when NO development, or population, is sustainable without water.
And gee, I guess THESE guys “I used 3 gallons from the latest presentations of the Kansas Bioscience Authority and the International Ethanol Fuel Workshop which ended today in Nashville” wouldnt have a vested interest in getting the public, via the press, to believe water is a non-issue, now would they?
And as for the steve miller thing, I see you have fallen under his charming and well spoken spell. Dont feel bad. Most press people do. But remember, he’s shilling too. He is a PR guy, not a scientist or environmentalist. And he’s a very good PR guy. As a scientist? Well, he’s a great PR guy.
When he stops lying and misleading, I’ll stop holding him accountable for it, and when you research and verify what he tells you, I’ll get off your back about shilling for him.
Ben, I obviously defer to your expertise on all matters relating to science, but my understanding is that once nitrates enter the water supply, there isnt much that will filter it out. It can be used up, as with the red algae blooms, but I dont think it’s filtered. If you see this and you have time, can you expound a bit?
I agree about groundwater issues with nitrogen. A LOT of folks out here have to haul their potable water, or become a member of a rural water district, not because they dont have enough water, but because they have unsafe levels of nitrates in their ground water. That comes either from nitrogen leaching out of fields, or from leaching from confined animal operations.
And once it’s in there, to use MY scientific term, “yer screwed”!
We all think our ground water is pristine. As Wink always points out, it isnt always so. Giardia (sp?) has become a groundwater and surface water problem for folks out here, as are nitrates, and oil field contamination. The oil field problems were generally created long ago with inefficient and unsafe well plugging, but it still happens today. And the more we drill, the more of those problems we will have.
Maybe industry, from ethanol to confined animals to petroleum exploration and production, actually WANT people to literally “get the hell outa Dodge”.
That way they dont have to worry about polluting or draining the water supply…
“The “economics” of ethanol would be VERY different if big corn, big irrigation, and ethanol production were NOT being heavily subsidized by YOUR tax dollars. If ethanol had to truely pay its way, consumers would not be saving money at the pump.”
ksfg – nitrate has a half-life in groundwater of about 3 years. It gets used in place of oxygen as an electron acceptor by facultative anaerobe bacteria. So, as long as an aquifer is functioning properly it should not build up – IF we are not overloading the system. In surface water nitrate can be used by a number of things – especially in a wetland. That is why I am such a hawk on wetland preservation and filterstrips.
pg – I am glad you seem to be recognizing that algae is still experimental. Take it from another ‘MIT guy’ that is still has a long way to go. Wind is a LOT further along – I can take you to functioning wind farms all over the world. And, wind IS reliable if done right – that is, wind farms rather than isolated turbines. It is always blowing SOMEWHERE.
The reason for the connection between algae and Sunflower is the BOGUS claims that were made last year that the algae plant would make Sunflower’s expansion at Holcomb essentially carbon-neutral. Morris and Neufield were deliberately lying with that claim. Thus my challenge – demonstrate algae in the similar coal plant already at Holcomb.
A concern about the residue as cattle feed. I read somewhere that there has been an increase in Salmonella associated with that. I don’t know whatever came of that but it would seem to be a concern – especially with wet cake. I always worry about what might ‘grow’ in such an environment. We have found in the past that messing around with animal feed can lead to undesirable unintended consequences.
ksfg, I think the “filter” that Ben is referring to in reference to riparian strips is that planting trees (or better yet brushy bushes with extensive, relatively shallow root systems) next to surface streams adjacent to farmland helps prevent runoff of nutrients into the streams bcause they soak up the nutrients before they hit the water. It’s not exactly filtration in the classic sense, but the result is the same.
The question I ahve is one of fairness: Is it appropriate to tax businesses OUTSIDE of Old Town to subsidize their competition IN Old Town? What ever happened to the idea of the private sector being the private sector?
Interesting to note on another thread that the QuikTrip adjacent to that booming area feels it needs to shut down to protect its people when the bars close. Makes me wonder if these tax-supported bars are really helping adjacent business areas.
I recall downtown Wichita so well in 1996-97 when I moved to Wichita. Even though downtown was on the fence, it did still have occupancy in some of the buildings that are now vacant or nearly vacant.
The little known secret about Wichita’s downtown is that many of the imposing office buildings are basically empty except perhaps a few tenants on the first floors.
I hoped to become involved somehow as a volunteer to renew downtown Wichita in some logical manner.
But high paid elected county commissioners and high paid hired gun gurus mostly from southeastern states got here first. Eventually with taxpayers wallets in their hands, they turned downtown Wichita into a shambles by proposing the unwanted, unneeded white elephant downtown arena.
Now after the initial parties are over, the balloons and grafetti have fallen, the self-congratulatory dinners are finished, the going away parties held for the departing “hired guns,” the up-front cash spent …. all we will have for probably a billion dollars of wasted tax money is an ugly dangerous glass arena WITHOUT a regular tenant. Really really bad business and most taxpayers never even got a free cup of coffee out of the deal.
Additionally, the arena site eliminates the needed 500 car parking lot for the downtown railroad station in the event Wichita does get the north-south Amtrak “Flyer” train from Texas to Newton and onto the regular Amtrak east-west lines.
The list of the former arena cheerleaders is long. But now many, but not all, have left Wichita for greener pastures.
Now renewing downtown Wichita will be extremely difficult because of the white elephant arena and its demands for rogue parking.
Sorry, Bill Wilson, you don’t get a prize for your editorial above, “$2 a gallon gas?” And your offer to dance down Douglas if it does happen. Reminds me of the dance Hitler reportedly did at his birthday party in the Bunker shortly before he wisely committed suicide as the Russians arrived at the front door.
In other words, $2/gallon gas would be welcome to individual American consumers but the wrong solution for the future of America.
With $2 gasoline, Americans would resume the race to consume its non-renewable energy resources at a fantastic rate. Americans would probably consume much of the domestic oil from various American reserves leaving this nation open to attacks from countries that still have petroleum in the future. No lessons would be learned about the value of conservation of energy resources and VIABLE alternative sources as opposed to Congressman Jerry Moran’s diatribe on this mornings EAGLE editorial page.
So, Bill Wilson try again. If you are trying to develop your editorial skills, try writing about the value of conservation of energy usage.
Good to hear. Honestly, how much direct mail that you receive in the mailbox is truly useful or even wanted? I’d say it’s less than 5% for me personally. The rest ends up in the recycling bin.
I really hope these guys can make something positive of the WWW mess. I think most people in the Wichita area were interested and excited about the prospects of a family entertainment venue; Etheredge just couldn’t make it happen. Hopefully AHG Group will do it right.
In rural areas there is even something better – Community Wind. The idea (K-State) is to build a local wind farm in an area controlled by the members of a sort of cooperative. Then, rather than just buying their power together, they actually make it.
K-State – through its existing extension program – has been working in this area.
Hey, I wonder if some kind of similar shared arrangement could be organized for residential natural gas users. I notice my natural gas bills have been increasing. Or to be more accurate, my “EPP settlement amount” after payment of my monthly flat fee has been increasing … so I have to pay several hundred more dollars to “catch up.”
I went back and analyzed my bills over the past year. It appears my usage is remaining fairly constant for similar months give or take a little for different weather. The difference appears to be from higher costs Kansas Gas Service is paying for the natural gas. Is anybody trying to put the brakes on this?
I would like to know more about this purchase arrangement. Who does Kansas Natural Gas purchase the natural gas from … is it directly from the producer? Or is a middle man in the picture? Does our natural gas come from the Hugoton gas fields in southwestern Kansas? Are various electrical power companies competing with us residential users for this natural gas thereby driving the costs up?
Can we trust and depend on our natural gas supplier, in my case Kansas Gas Service Co., a subsidiary of Oneok Company in Oklahoma, to actually try to give us a good deal? Does this natural gas monopoly come under the surveillance of our Kansas Utilities Commission or whatever its called?
A vital downtown core is essential to the success of Wichita. The pieces are being put into place — Old Town, new arena, Waterwalk. Sometimes the city needs to pitch in and ease the way for investment.
Couple of important distinctions, I think – first, the city’s refusal to fully fund WaterWalk five years ago is one of the big reasons why it’s not fully developed.
Second, the other high-profile city-funded projects involve more than just bars.
History tells us, I think, that downtown Wichita was dead in a free development market. So it’s difficult for me to fault the city for taking a proactive role helping downtown redevelop.
Bill Wilson is far more informed and interesting than I had realized before Business Casual. Reading his different perspective on Brent’s article gives value to them both, and the Eagle.
This issue isn’t new to the history of Wichita or to any major city in the United States. Downtown’s in every major city died beginning in the early 1980’s. The reason was suburban sprawl and shopping malls.
Cities left not knowing what to do with their cores deteriorating. After several decades they found the way, which is bringing entertainment and living, but they had to shell out the dough to do it. We are not alone and this isn’t nothing new.
KC, OKC, Dallas and the list goes on. They are all doing it. Public financing is crucial for the turn around.
A Wichita radio station reported today the historic and dramatic Minisa Bridge next to North High School reopened on a partial basis. I wonder what “partial” means when it comes to the bridge?
Over the weekend, Riverside Cafe was accepting colored glass for the decorative design on the bridge so I dropped some glass pieces off there. I hope they get incorporated into the bridge design. And, personally, I find the Riverside business community to be casual, friendly and comfortable.
I don’t think its predestined that all central business districts are eventually going to become dinosaurs. I think some do because many elected politicians think they have a “wonderful vision” that will save the business district. Perhaps they are right or wrong, who knows. But what is important is to obtain “buy-in” from the people who will pay the bill, the taxpayers. And I don’t mean a few minutes of listening at the water fountain, or doughnut shop or to the waitress at a local restaurant.
In Wichita, I have only seen one “politician” who would stand up and listen to some extent. That was School Superintendent Winston Brooks, now gone to Albuquerque. Unfortunately his assistants at headquarters have circled their wagons to block and resist public input.
If politicians don’t like to communicate with taxpayers, they should get out because they are contributing to failure. I suggest that our holdover Sedgwick county commissioners, Unruh, Winters and Norton are in this category. They are basically in it for the paycheck and not because they like to talk to the voters and taxpayers.
Also, I believe most of the present Wichita City Council are in the same non-communicative category.
Sitting behind their respective official barricades like tin horn judges doesn’t do it.
Wichita suffers from NO BUY-IN BY THE WICHITA VOTERS AND TAXPAYERS. No matter how glorious and glamorous the project, such as “old town,” the public won’t go for it if no initial buy-in.
I’m not particularly familiar with public financing of the downtowns of Oklahoma City and Dallas mentioned by WE Blogger “ictBest” above. But I believe there are many business districts that are successful without much if any public financing. Off hand, I’m thinking of the great Country Club Plaza, downtown Lawrence, Kansas, downtown Olathe, downtown Independence, Mo. I understand Eureka, California where I once worked for the U.S. Forest Service is going well. So is Panama City, Florida, and probably lots of other cities that I can’t think of right now.
But Wichita is continuing to run the wrong way at full speed by hiring a city manager who has never shown propensity to actually communicate with regular tax-paying citizens. Its going to be another case of unilaterally deciding what “we, the citizens” want and throwing millions of our hard-earned tax dollars at it.
THEN, AS USUAL, FLEEING WICHITA ON THE NEXT TRAIN.
I agree with a proactive approach to downtown development but I sarcastically ask, where is downtown?
Waterwalk/Hyatt/Century II is too far away from the proposed arena which is too far away from the Old Town/Warren theater area. Until those “dots” become easily connected (personally I would love to see something like a monorail downtown connecting all of this, along with Exploration Place, the Wichita Art Museum and VERY LARGE PARKING LOTS!) I unfortunately have a “divided we fall” mentality on all of it.
I don’t think it has to be too far away, Jerry, but knowing Wichita as a lifer, I suspect you’re probably right.
Wichitans aren’t going to walk anywhere, so you’d hope that the joint city-county arena redevelopment effort produces some sort of downtown mass transit.
It’s funny, actually, how allergic Wichitans are to walking. If you’ve ever been to a major sporting event, you know that the distances between the downtown attractions are a short walk compared to the stroll through a Super Bowl parking lot, for example.
Dan, I totally agree with you. The ones complaining the most about arena parking have probably never been outside Wichita, let alone to a major sports/concert venue elsewhere. Walking a few blocks is actually a good thing. Chances are, it’s not going to kill you, and maybe, as you walk, you might find a new restaurant, gallery or other interesting shop that you never knew existed as you blew by it many times in your car. I can’t wait for the arena to open, and I know that it will bring enhanced development and vitality to the vicinity.
Oops, Merriam-Webster Online tells me: 1970. Still sounds odd to me.
And, back on the original topic…
I don’t think those things are outside of walking distance. I have walked from my office on Market St. over to the Old Mill for lunch and it took just a few minutes. It was a hot day and it was still pleasant. And I have walked a lot farther than that when visiting Chicago or New York. As mentioned about, we just need to get into the habit of walking more!
Couldn’t agree more. During visits to Denver, I’ve attended some Rockies games at Coors Field and in one of their lots adjacent to the railyards, you could potentially park over a mile away at its most remote point. Yet people still park there (albeit in smaller numbers this season thanks to them going in the tank). They also do a great job of utilizing remote park-n-ride lots throughout the metro area served by their transit authority. You park closer to your home, pay less than parking next to the stadium, get on a bus right outside of the stadium, and let someone else drive. I don’t think we need more parking for the arena. What we do need is people willing to look at the availability of existing parking and be willing to walk, and also for our transit agency to work with arena officials to develop a similar park-n-ride system. If people took a serious look around the country at downtown arenas/ public gathering facilities elsewhere, they would realize that this is a dead issue elsewhere and that people actually do walk nowadays. An amazing concept.
The problem with parking is that it will be a hodge podge for parking. Chances are that you will have to drive to numerous locations just to find an opening. Throw in January when it is 10 below outside with wind and you will begin to see the problem. The centers that you mention have on-site parking and though the distance may seem far, the driver will not spend alot of driving to different locations trying to find a spot. The arena was to be built with parking, to say that we should accept whatever is myopic at best.
If downtown is so great, why can’t it even support a movie theater? Even a new theater that everyone wants to check out but don’t go back.
Downtown has the police station, SRS, federal prison work/release, county jail, homeless, city hall, etc. I prefer to drive to a very nice part of Wichita or stay close to home where I might see someone I know.
Until Wichita gets rid of the crack houses and someone makes affordable condos – out of the failed hotels – people only feel safe there when there are major events, riverfest, chilifest…
How about the arena costing more that 3x the $ in one year. Who did the estimating – another outside ‘consultant’ that doesn’t know the difference from Hilltop and Vickeridge, 9th and Grove, 21st and Broadway?
What happened to my well thought out, carefully expressed comments that I entered on this blog thread last night and this morning? Is the EAGLE practicing some sort of filtering of blogger comments? Perhaps my comments, as great as they were, did not fit into the prescribed filter established by EAGLE blog management? Are we seeing the future of journalism right here in River City?
If we had decent transit it would make a difference – we don’t.
I agree with the comment above abou a hodgepodge – this will cause people to ‘wander around’ looking for parking in a disorganized fashion. IF they can find a way to coordinate parking and IF they can create a pleasant walking environment they might make this work.
On the other hand, if parking is not needed then why did they promise they would build parking in the first place?
Carl Brewer claimed that Gander Mountain is a success and is making money. Perhaps he should visit the investment site http://www.morningstar.com and check ticker GMTN. They are losing money big time.
No parking may be a good thing for you, Dan. You’re a fine physical specimen in your prime, eh? Many of us are not in top physical condition, and the aging population will BOOM in the next few years. There will be arthritis, diabetes complications and heart disease prohibiting these aging Baby Boomers from walking very far. And think of the wasted gas and additional pollution from people blasting from block to block trying to find a parking space as time ticks away toward the start of the show. How’s ole Ron Holt’s plan for park-and-ride coming along, anyway? Have you actually heard one iota of planning for that?
Jerry … It was nothing you did. I’m told by our Web gurus that a technical glitch wiped out some comments. They were able to retrieve some and unable to get others back. Keep posting and hopefully it won’t happen again.
If a general cross-section look at the average Wichitan is any indication, a good, brisk walk from the arena to your car several blocks away has to be a good thing.
I echo the other comments…just about every other city I’ve been to where a sporting/arts event is held, you walk several blocks to/from your auto. A parking garage will solve all that ails ya? No way. You’ll be sitting in a line to get out of the concrete bunker while I’m in my car several blocks away, heading home.
As someone who’s earned parking in a garage to attend college football games annually at a major Division 1 school, Dan is absolutely right. Unless the game is a rout, the garages are impossible to exit and frankly are a bigger irritant to me than any walk.
I’d advise anyone on this thread who objects to walking to avoid attending any major sporting event: Super Bowl, World Series, BCS Championship Game, NASCAR, etc.
The prime slots are reserved for corporate sponsors. The general public walks. And walks. And walks …
I believe Mike Norman. At least I think the hedge fund trading is a substantial part of the price issue. The problem is that oil commodity trading is a global event. If U.S. legislators should try to affect the way commodity trades in oil are handled by the NYMEX, the traders would simply switch to the International Commodity Exchange in London, or one of the other foreign exchanges. Trying to corral all of the world commodity markets would be next to impossible.
I’ll bet that very few people and very few legislators have a firm handle on how commodity speculation works. All of the fixes proposed so far are like swinging a ball bat at that which is visible. None will have any effect.
Bill, how about doing an article on the details of how commodity trading and speculation work? How do purchases on the margin work? How does one win at the game? How is it possible to lose? What can cause the bubble of the speculators to burst? Exactly what procedure is used now by the hedge fund traders? What does it mean to see that the large speculators are net long on crude and the commercial hedgers are net short?
I remember reading a report about how many cities could support a pro team. They broke it down to each sport (baseball, basketball, football and hockey). They gave a percentage to likely hood they could support a pro team in each category for the top 75 cities in the USA.
The surprising thing is that Wichita actually had a 100% rating for a pro football team. I’m assuming the reason is that we don’t have a college football presence, which would kill the chances of pro football doing well in cities like OKC, Omaha and Birmingham, which has very strong college football presence.
I guess they figured the million + people in a 100 mile radius of Wichita as well. It was an interesting report.
Although I seriously doubt that the NFL would ever consider small market teams, such as Greenbay and Buffalo ever again. They are trying to expand internationally, so the chances are very dim.
“Arena parking will be just fine.” What parking? NO parking is provided for the new downtown arena.
Of course, parking will be available up and down nearby alleys between trash containers. Or in private parking spaces and take a chance on being towed away. Or pay for parking in private lots with no guarantee that anyone will be watching your car.
Any private owner of a similar theater, arena, convention center would be required by the local Planning and Zoning Board to provide at least one parking space per two seats. For example, the great old Kansas Coliseum has a great parking arrangement, some 5,000 (+) parking spaces for some 10,000 seats … all carefully arranged in a radius around the arena, all on ground surface level for easiest possible access.
In fact, I understand downtown arena planners are considering using the Kansas Coliseum parking lot for satellite parking with shuttle buses to downtown for a price, of course. After discharging passengers within two or three blocks of the downtown arena, the 300 shuttle buses would proceed to Lawrence-Dumont Stadium parking UNLESS a baseball game is going on; then to downtown library parking lots UNLESS the library is open; then to the Municipal Airport parking lots UNLESS of course they are in use by airline passengers.
On the basis of about 14,000 seats at the new downtown arena, the arena should provide a MINIMUM OF 7,000 PEA GREEN VINYL SEATS. You might recall the color was selected by holdover county commissioners, Tom Winters, Dave Unruh and Tim Norton, after traveling around the country on fact finding tours, to provide event attendees a good seating experience.
Wait, I have an idea. Why not dismantle the new downtown arena and use the site for a large parking lot for the historic old Union Railroad Station for its new life as an AMTRAK railroad station. It could also be used for a shuttle parking lot for a renovated Kansas Coliseum.
If taxpayers had the choice, I would most would choose the historic old Broadview Hotel for subsidy rather than Bill Warren’s new Old Town theater.
Broadview Hotel was built sometime in the early 1920’s and owned for a time by Wichita’s greatest general contractor, George Siedhoff.
Broadview Hotel overlooked “Island Park” on its west, surrounded by the Arkansas River. The park contained an early wooden baseball stadium and even a roller coaster. On the east side of Waco was the Union Pacific Railroad Station which offered a direct connection to the Arkansas Valley Interurban (AVI) through the archway still visible on east side of the Broadview Hotel. AVI’s headquarters and trolley line center was on the west side of the Broadview.
Below the Broadview was a large restaurant said to contain some 200 seats. This is reputed to have been a “speakeasy” during the years of prohibition.
A coffee cup sign was on the south side of the Broadview advertising its coffee shop entrance which must have beckoned executives from the Koch Engineering Company located on the south side of Douglas in the 1950’s and 1960’s.
The top floor contained a roof gardens restaurant and ballroom. Imagine the 1940’s music of Glenn Miller, the notes of Stardust and String of Pearls, wafting over the streets of Wichita on a warm summer evening.
Which would you choose for help from your tax dollars?
I was in a hurry in my above comment. In the second paragraph from the bottom, I should have said, “On the basis of about 14,000 pea green vinyl seats at the new downtown arena, a minimum of 7,000 automobile parking spaces should have been provided on site, at grade level, surrounding the arena building.” The purpose of course would be for easy ingress/egress, for weather and safety purposes if nothing else.
Phil Boyer has done more for General Aviation than any other person on the face of the earth, short of Clyde Cessna. There are only about 600,000 licensed pilots in the country and Boyer can count 400,000 of them as members. What other organization can count two-thirds of industry participants as members?
General Aviation suffers from the law of numbers; meaning that the number of GA people is too small to be heard. Boyer has done an outstanding job of making a small number have the voice of a huge number. He has made a science of getting the general public to see the value of GA.
On top of that, he is a genuinely nice guy. The entire aviation community will miss him. Craig Fuller has a huge pair of shoes to fill.
The arena is looking good. They put it in the right place. Wichita is big enough to be a major league city. Both good and bad things come from being big. Wichita already has all of the bad things.
We shall see. I stand by my predictions that this thing will require large subsidies from the taxpayers. It will be interesting to see the fireworks when they have to come to the Commission to get them.
I have been to Cardinals, Rams, Predators, and Colts, and Titans games. All are downtown arenas. All were great experiences, compared to Arrowhead, & Royals. It is great to see small groups of people walking on downtown streets. In STL people stop by the restaurants/bars for a pre-event dinner, happy hour. It is a wonderful bonding where people sharing the same interest gather together and walk together to the event. Laughter and good spirited conversations bring the streets alive, which is what our downtown needs.
I think you’re right, Bill. The supply-and-demand argument is a farce. My wife and I have been carpooling for some time now, leaving one of our two cars parked in the garage everyday. All of my friends and co-workers are taking steps to conserve fuel. Simple question no one can answer: If the high prices really are tied to rising demand yet everyone in my world, and most likely yours, has reduced their demand in some way, then why haven’t prices fallen? Further, why hasn’t the press, local or national, been more aggressive in taking the oil industry and other players involved to task on the subject? … What happened to journalists’ mantra to “comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable?”
It’s a legitimate question, perhaps a topic for a later blog. As someone who’s been in journalism for a quarter-century – boy, am I old – the performance of the national media, both print and electronic, in the past several years is as disappointing to me as anything I’ve observed in the business.
Chuckle. For those of you who’ve been concerned about censorship on this blog, I can tell you that my response to mcs’ post just got zapped by the spam filter.
Suppose there’s any hidden meaning in being zapped from your own thread?
Anyway, back to MCS’ point about journalism: It’s a great one, I’m sorry to say.
I’ve been doing this for 26 years – boy, am I old – and I’ve found nothing in the industry as disappointing as the national media’s, print and electronic included, failure to be anything more than cheerleaders over the past several years.
And just for the record, the cost of my chicken feed this year has more than tripled. I’m no fan of Tyson, but facts are facts. It went from a little over three dollars a bag to over ten dollars a bag.
I’m rethinking having broilers next year, and I just raise them for myself and my friends. Imagine what big ag will do.
Ten dollar whole chickens. Coming soon to a store near you. Is it ethanol’s fault? Not entirely. But it certainly plays a role.
On a recent blog thread relating to ethanol, there was considerable debate about how much water is used for the manufacture of ethanol and for the irrigation of the corn used for the ethanol process.
I have been told recently that we really don’t know how much water is being pumped out of our deep underground aquifers. The reason? The state of Kansas has only one or two inspectors traveling around the state checking the water pumps and resulting records on thousands and thousands of water withdrawal pumps.
More importantly the Kansas Geological Survey and water district records show the aquifer levels are generally dropping. This is particularly true in western Kansas where practically no recharge of these aquifers takes place due to the depth and cover by many feet of limestone.
For me, a marker was the former artisan springs that jumped out of the ground to feed the Meade County State Lake. I understand these springs which were forced up from the Ogallala aquifer … are no longer running water because of the lowering of the aquifer.
For Kansans who are proud of our state and want it to continue as we have known it in the past, draining these aquifers for a temporary usage to manufacture ethanol is a complete violation of our Kansas environment. We don’t want our state to once again become part of the Great American Desert.
Well, since Enron officials apparently were involved in the creation of the loophole that’s allowing unregulated speculation, the irony of your question doesn’t escape me, Lonny.
I have a website with photos of Joyland. The spam filter won’t let me post the URL, but if you click on my user name above it will open the site. You can also find it by doing a Google search for “remember joyland”.
I have a website with photos of Joyland. The spam filter won’t let me post the URL, but if you click on my user name above it will open the site. You can also find it by doing a Google search for “remember joyland”.
P.J. Griekspoor, EAGLE environment reporter: I wish you would do a turn around and see the dangers to Kansas, America and the world from production of ethanol. Then use your powerful position to affect public opinion … for the good … by studying and publicizing the real dangers of ethanol production.
P.J., you have the opportunity to do good, shine a light on the bad guys and save the world. Will you do it?
They are 2 entirely different situations. As it was explained to me last evening, the “mistake” with the Warren deal is that when the tax increment financing (tif) was set up roughly 10 years ago the Warren was counted as a whopping 75% of the base. There were other options to the city but none as favorable as the low interest loans. It ensures that the Warren continues paying all of those taxes for the district plus pays back the recent loans approved by the city. I did take some comfort in finding out the recent loans are personally guaranteed.
Obviously, the City is not in that kind of predicament with the Broadview. It is a stand alone situation and should rise or fall on its own merits.
At the end of the day I would personally prefer less government interaction with businesses.
I disagree jwink. I still think they should try to talk Flentje into staying on permanently. Similarly with the other positions – they can be filled locally.
In the case of the city manager, do not concur.
The long term answer, of course, is to put in strong mayor after the 2011 elections… after we get rid of the current weak mayor, of course.
Mr. Controversy: How do you propose to structure a “strong mayor” position in Wichita. For example, would there still be a city manager and, if so, would he report to the city council or to the mayor?
Of course, a fellow like Pat Salerno would not agree to report to one person, the strong mayor, because his job could be more tenuous than with a seven member city council.
What about the county government? Wouldn’t your change be a good time to consolidate many overlapping city/county offices? I believe some form of this has been put in place in Kansas City, Kansas and Wyandotte County. I am curious how this is organized.
A fellow from Wichita, formerly a spokesman for Wichita, left here a few years ago to take a similar position with the KCK/Wyandotte County unified government. Perhaps he has some ideas on this. Sorry I can’t think of his name right now.
bth: Although I have never met Mr. Flentje, he appears to be his own man and a professional city manager type. I agree. I hope the city council attempts to keep him on to settle the dust from this failed Salerno deal and to learn from the mistakes that were made.
Don’t forget another corporate raider, Carl Icahn “raided” TWA airlines, a company that had strong roots, if not its birth, in Kansas … an amazing basically unknown story. Perhaps with a toss of the coin in 1932, Wichita, the Air Capitol, could have been the corporate headquarters of TWA.
But in any event, thanks to Carl Icahn’s inept management of TWA, it is no more.
Why do I worry that T. Boone Pickens “management” might do the same to development of wind power.
I don’t mean any disrespect, but those of you supporting keeping Flentje in the office obviously have not tried to work with him. He needs to leave immediately — and go back to teaching or whatever. He has not been a good city manager — we simply need to move quickly to find a competent professional to take the job.
Great Atlanta Journal story on Wichita. All of our NO GUNS signs does give us back a wild west reputation. And our airport has a special checking for hunters with guns? Wild West Wichita.
Dan Voorhis: I’m confused by your last sentence above.
Is “boarder” Spanish for one who hauls boards? Or were you thinking of someone who lives in a boarding house? Or did you mean “crossing the broad” in place of “crossing the boarder” … that could be trouble anywhere. Or were you possibly refering to the “border” or boundary between two states or countries?
Wait … I thought the three holdover Sedgwick County Commissioners are building a airplane mechanics training school some ten miles east of downtown Wichita at suburban Jabara airport … to retain Wichita’s airplane builders here in Wichita.
This “guarantee,” of course, was provided by millions of our tax dollars generously furnished by County Commissioners Unruh, Norton and Winters directly from billfolds of hard-working Sedgwick County taxpayers.
The decision was made to fund the education of airplane mechanics over nurses, teachers and other equally needed disciplines. This was claimed by the Florida-based Visioneering program to “retain” Wichita’s portion of the airplane building industry … here in Wichita.
I was feeling pretty good about Moore myself… until I saw this.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the two-year-old attitude the “business community” takes. Everything has to be all about them. What about the real people of Wichita?
I think Mr. Moore can do a good job… but I think we would all feel better if Gary Rebenstorf, Cathy Holderman and a few others were no longer there.
Moore is fair to employees. So much so that I am surprised that the business community also likes him. He’s been running all the operations of the city for three years. That’s a lot of employees and employee groups.
And fair dealing from Scott. He will support an employee over management if he feels the employee is right.
I’m not entirely sure that journalists are human but I do believe they drink beer. I do agree that Eagle staffers are very easy to work although there does seem to be less and less of them all the time.
Just went I thought there was a good blog for a change, the leftist over at the WE Blog are now starting to migrate and put there two cents over here. *sigh* I guess it’s just the way it is. It’s life!
Beside that. I always thought it would be the best decision for the City Council to promote from within, even before they found Kolb. Should people like Scott Moore remain an assistant for the rest of his life, because only (City Managers) from other cities is the best possible fit?
The article about St. Louis doesn’t say in so many words but the actual center city of St. Louis has been ringed by suburbs and the Mississippi River/Illinois state line for years … so it COULD NOT grow in area. Still as the article goes on to mention the St. Louis metropolitan area is one of the larger in the U.S.
Kansas City, on the other hand, had the foresight back in the late 1950’s or early 1960’s to annex a great amount of open land north of the Missouri River and, also, some land that ringed around the south side of Raytown back up to I-70. This gave K.C. the site for Kansas City International Airport some 20 miles north of downtown K.C.
In regard to Kansas City, Missouri, there are several interesting plans that never came to fruition. Back in the 1890’s or so, an idea was floated of changing the Kansas/Missouri state line to follow the old thread of Turkey Creek. This line would have wrapped around the south side of downtown Kansas City, Missouri, from the Union Station north, to give KANSAS a large urban center which it did not then have.
Another interesting plan was suggested by Frank Carswell, Boss Tom Pendergast’s old concrete man, and later wealthy contractor. Frank was the pavement contractor on KCI airport. He proposed to build an underground rapid transit system from KCI through the thick and fairly shallow limestone strata to downtown K.C. Frank always said the mined limestone would have paid for the project.
Another thought which might have worked was to purchase Richards-Gebaur (sp?) Air Force base back from the federal government in the early 1960’s to use for the new Kansas City International Airport. That might have changed history somewhat because much of K.C’s growth has been to the south and southeast and southwest in Johnson County. That location might have offered a modern rapid transit route through the densely populated portions of K.C. and on southwestward to Wichita.
Unfortunately, the U.S. Air Force wasn’t quite ready to give up its air force base.
Both Wichita and Kansas City metro areas back in the early years of the 20th century had a wheel and spoke system of trolley car lines going out as far as Hutchinson, Newton and Wellington here. But as automobiles came along and populations moved outward, the trolley lines were finally closed by about 1940 so the rails could be used in the WWII effort.
It’s funny how it’s the “leftist” who opposes Communism but the “rightists” like “ictBest” who support Communism. Referring, of course, to all this government money going into private business ventures.
As for Moore – I think he is a great choice and have said so. I have wondered why the City has seemed so intent on bringing in a hired gun from elsewhere who has no vested interest in our city. Moore seems very level-headed and can also readily seek advice from Flentje whenever he needs to.
I was at Gulf Oil when Pickens launched his raid – and have no ill feelings toward him as a result. Gulf became a target because of lousy management AT GULF – not because of Pickens.
If a company is well-managed that will be reflected in its stock price. That is the best defense against a “hostile takeover”
I hope Pickens builds wind turbines all up and down the Great Plains – the “Saudi Arabia of Wind”
This could be very good news both for grid storage and also for electric cars. If we can get a car up to a few hundred miles capacity then it could make a perfect ’second’ car for just about anyone. Or, as a plug-in hybrid even better.
In this time of economic downturn and tightening personal budgets its so refreshing to hear of someone with more money than God throwing it around to see how many buildings on which he can get his name.
While some initial funding came from the county, there are many grants being received from manufacturers and others. These jobs will not only put money into the budget but also into the billfolds of many employees for their families.
Training for nurses and other professions are getting additional funding from the legislature.
BTH: Good comment about the paradox of someone like “ictBest” claiming to be a “rightist” even though in reality, he shows strong affinity for the communist side. Too bad we don’t know his real identity so we could explain to him the errors in his thinking.
“These jobs will not only put money into the budget but also into the billfolds of many employees for their families.”
Completely agree, but it is a total waste of money to build this concrete monument at Jabara. It should be downtown, where there is a long line of people looking for work who do not have means to get to Jabara.
Prediction: Within 3 years of completion this endeavor will be folded and the facility will be acquired for pennies by either Butler County Community College or WSU for extension centers.
Thank you JWINK….and…..the first wooden propellor was made by George Siedhoff the first at The Broadview Hotel…and there’s more stories that go with that too!
Andi Atwater: In the interests of full disclosure, your comments above should state the breakdown of diversity of medical students in American medical schools including osteopathic, chiropractic, podiatry schools and nursing programs.
Your comments would lead readers to believe that if only 2 or 3% of medical students and doctors are black, the other 97% or so are white caucasions.
My guess the percentages are similar to our schools and colleges, portions of white, black, hispanic, Asian, people from Indian sub-continent, Iranians, and so forth.
Presumably medical schools like other professional schools meet various education, experience and aptitude entry requirements in order to enroll people who have potential to succeed in the field and … are not in it for the money it pays.
Now P.J., as brilliant as you are in book learning, you know that driving up food prices is only one of the myriad of problems caused by ethanol manufacturing particularly here in relatively dry Kansas.
One is that without government subsidies, no ethanol manufacturer would even consider producing that product.
Two, here in Kansas, many of us who are life long loyal Kansans see the hand writing on the wall. Pumping the water needed for ethanol and associated irrigation is draining our relatively pristine deep underground water aquifers. This will evenually lead to tremendous drinking water shortages in Kansas as are now being experienced in other states.
Furthermore, draining the aquifers will lead to obtaining our drinking water from the already turgid, polluted surface rivers such as the Arkansas River and other surface rivers that run any length through Kansas.
In the last couple years, our ill-informed Sedgwick County commissioners allowed Sedgwick County trash to be hauled to the new Harper County landfill which will eventually poison the picturesque, free flowing Chikaskia River.
The Chikaskia River begins not far away, somewhere south of Cunningham near the fabled St. Leo, Kansas, where it begins in a jumble of old Budweiser beer kegs from the St. Leo Catholic church. Its said Chikaskia River water has a slight taste of stale beer from those old wooden kegs which feed the giant channel catfish along there. Now the Budweiser taste will be traded for the taste of fresh garbage from Sedgwick County.
I GUESS ETHANOL MANUFACTURING IS FOLLOWING THE OLD LAW … THAT IS, THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
Why the vitriol against P.J.? KSFARMGRRL sounds like a frustrated sapphic treehugger who couldn’t find her way out of a ethanol tank with a flashlight and a ladder.
P.J. is a newsgatherer. She disseminates the latest news with flair and efficiency. So you have a problem with the way the government is handling ethanol production and rising food prices and all the other economically challenging factors that impact Kansas farmers and the economy? Fine — but stop shooting the messenger.
I don’t always agree with the stories, but I respect the reporting. Try reserving your comments for the news itself, or perhaps challenge the government or researcher perspectives. Constantly attacking a reporter is sophomoric and belies your lack of understanding.
Somehow, the whole doctor–patient arrangement should be changed to achieve better outcomes. Several acquaintences have died after going to doctors for problems, admittedly serious problems with cancer. But I believe the treatment did them in, not the cancer.
I would like to hear more discussion of alternate arrangements of health care. Perhaps eliminating the doctor level and promoting up the ladder through various levels of nurses, medical aids, osteopathic aids, chiropractor aids, and podiatry aids.
Perhaps the “doctors” at the top should have business or journalism degrees rather than medical degrees so they see the patients’ big picture.
I’m not in the health care field so haven’t given much thought to this but definitely don’t like the low level of treatment with the current system.
In my view the jury is still out on corn-ethanol. Inputs of fertilyzer and irrigation for corn, coupled with ‘wear and tear’ on the soil may well exceed the output in fuel.
In and area like Iowa where it rains more it might make more sense.
I’m looking forward to cellulosic ethanol – especially if it can be done from trash.
With Ray Frederick as President and a new building, WIBA is dramatically reaching out to the community.
Tim Witsman as executive director has really helped them put the move on.
Is P.J. Griekspoor an editorial writer or reporter for the Wichita EAGLE?
The EAGLE normally stresses the difference as though an invisible line or wall separates the two overall activities. At the Wichita EAGLE, editorial writers are actually physically separated from news reporters who reside in a large noisy, clattering news room.
Would Phil Brownlee, lead editorial writer, run out onto Douglas and interview participants in say a truck and city bus collision? Or would Brownlee cooly maintain an aloof gentlemen’s distance in his role as EAGLE editorial writer? I suspect the latter.
But what is the standard in regard to the blogs maintained by the EAGLE? Should Brownlee and other EAGLE opinion writers continue to honor their role as editorial writers and not reporters? After all computer blogs are a different medium from newspapers.
By the same token, should we, the Wichita EAGLE readers and WE Bloggers expect EAGLE reporters to honor the traditional separation and continue to write news articles giving both sides of the story. And tell the old “where, when, who, and what really happened”? Should EAGLE reporters continue as news presenters when participating in the blogs, particularly the “BUSINESS CASUAL” blog?
If so, is the learned P.J. Grieksmoor, one of the EAGLE’s environmental writers, stepping over the line separating editorial/opinion writers from the coldly dispassionate, two-sided news reporters?
This is right in line with what those of us predicted who were and still are opposed to the 1/2 billion dollar white elephant downtown arena.
Not only is the arena vicinity not developing, the threat of the arena’s lack of parking has already chased a lot of good companies out of the central core. I won’t name them because their defense will be they had other more altruistic reasons for moving.
In fact, I have been keeping a list of the arena insiders, the cheerleaders for the albatross, screaming the “little people” of Wichita desperately wanted the arena … WHO HAVE SINCE MOVED OUT OF WICHITA LEAVING THEIR UNPAID ARENA BILLS FOR OTHERS TO PAY.
The skeleton of the arena is being constructed so I’ve been told. Of course, the big operational expenses for management, insurance, heating, air conditioning, electricity, natural gas, water for the ice slabs, snaks for the arena cheerleaders in their skyboxes, haven’t even began yet.
But now the list is mounting of what the citizens of Wichita and Sedgwick County CAN’T HAVE BECAUSE THE ARENA EXPENSES WILL HAVE TO BE PAID.
Things like repair of our potholed streets. And construction of storm sewers needed all over the city and county. And repair of bursting water mains. And replacement of bridges and overpasses that are exceeding their design life. And adequate schools for our youth.
But yippy de dooda, we are getting one helluva billion dollar arena whether we want it or not, whether we need it or not, and whether there is any user who will adequately pay to use it.
So, I say, “Mr. Mayor, just stop this idiotic arena before it’s too late.”
jwink – it’s already too late to stop it. I hope the remaining arena boosters find a way to make it work but I still don’t see what is going to fill it. As I noted before the opportunity was lost when WSU revamped Koch Arena on campus. Had the suggestions some of us made back then been looked at perhaps we would have the Shockers as an anchor tenant.
One thing I don’t understand about local businesses is that we have not seen restaurant/bars near Century II. That venue fills regularly (MTW doing All Shook Up this week) but my wife and I usually end up eating out elsewhere. Hopefully the Broadview will hold together and the renovations go through. I like Chisolms and Le Parc as occassional dinner spots.
I don’t see how a few or even a few dozen nights can support restaurants nearby – C-II on the other hand has many more nights (albeit smaller numbers). I guess that as a businessman myself I still do not see the business model of this Arena project.
“Build it and they will come.” has been the motto of the city and a few promoters/contractors that are trying to benefit from city’s spending. Let’s see, there is the Hyatt, (now city owned), Waterwalk, years in the making, little to show for the tax investment, Old Town bar district, getting to be more and more tax financed with very little hope of further development. What is sad is that private development, the very essence of development continues to leave. Talk about parking and eyes glass over and the very promoters that are pushing these projects deny there is a need. 5 years from now the city will pay $1MM to study the situation and parking will be listed as the main problem. People go now west or east where there is plenty of parking. These areas in town are better planned, larger in scope and with private development money. They continue to grow without the city and without their tax money. The very problem of promoter/contractor projects is that they are political in nature and poorly planned.
Hey, even I buy bottled water once in a while. I’m not much of a soda drinker and I hate 3.2 beer…
But seriously, bottled water is one of the most harmful things in the world. Outsourcing our water supply to coke and pepsi is never a good thing. And in many developing nations, they are taking over and privatizing the water supplies. Hell, privatization of water is happening right here in our country. A VERY bad thing.
Support your local businesses. My suggestion is always pack a good ol’ fashioned Coleman jug with ice water. And the ice should be made at home, in a small chunch, not purchased from a cooler. (Unlesss it’s to ice down REAL beer!).
I know, when you are rushing out of the house in the morning, the last thing you need to do is pack something else to tote along. But really, if you freeze the ice as the last thing at night, and fix up the water jug when you make the coffee in the morning, you can just grab it on the way out.
I imagine Carrie doesnt pack a lunch very often, given her posts about lunches, but you can save waaaaaay more money by packing your water than your lunch. Not that packing lunch isnt a good idea too.
Go to the farmers market. Stock up on fresh goodies for lunch. Take a Coleman jug of water along your lunch every day. You could save up to ten bucks a day depending on your habits.
Farmers and water advocates everywhere will thank you!
It’s going to work out. Just like OKC and Omaha, things really started to develop after their arenas were built and things keep on building. This will happen in Wichita as well.
I never understood the naysayers who think the Downtown Arena is going to be a failure. I guess that means the Kansas Coliseum was a colossal failure for all these 30 years. Then the Naysayers will say that the Kansas Coliseum is what we need and is successful, but they fail to recognize that the downtown arena IS a replacement for the Kansas Coliseum.
If the Kansas Coliseum isn’t a failure, then what’s going to makes the downtown arena a failure? Because of cost? It’s already bought and paid for with no interest to bond investors as waste, it received much more money than the naysayers could even stand and it will have an operating surplus to last it 25 years. It’s a huge success already.
JWink? He’s a transplant from white flight JoCo that hopes to bring out the worst in Wichita. A nobody with silly thoughts in his head. Basically he isn’t a Wichitian, so that tells you enough.
I agree ksfg. A very easy and convenient approach is to fill a plastic (flexible) bottle about 1/3 and put in the freezer. Then fill the rest of the way with water on the way out and you not only have water you have COLD water.
If I am going to be at work where a faucet is handy make that 1/3 more like 2/3 and have cold all day.
Dave Warren and his crew provide us with very high-quality drinking water here in Wichita.
Another idea to save is to use non-paper coffee cup for your morning Joe. People in my office mindlessly use multiple paper cups a day, often two a time to protect from burning their delicate hands, while plenty of perfectly good, reusable ceramic mugs sit in the cabinet three steps away from the coffee maker.
I think there will be many, many more “bank” closings. I use the term “bank” loosely because if you bought your house through IndyMac (and others) there was no credit check of any kind. Home prices are going up, so who cares about bad credit? And these facilities are FDIC insured?
The late 80’s and early 90’s were much worse with over 500 banks closing due to the S&L crisis.
Since I fall into the “grumpy old man” category I would prefer to throw out all democrats and republicans and start over. But it is very ironic to me that the granddaddy of the Keating 5 is soon to be the republican nominee for president.
That’s at least one person that should have known better than to allow that type of financial activity AGAIN.
The Archer Daniels Midland Corporation (ADM) has been the most prominent recipient of corporate welfare in recent U.S. history. ADM and its chairman Dwayne Andreas have lavishly fertilized both political parties with millions of dollars in handouts and in return have reaped billion-dollar windfalls from taxpayers and consumers. Thanks to federal protection of the domestic sugar industry, ethanol subsidies, subsidized grain exports, and various other programs, ADM has cost the American economy billions of dollars since 1980 and has indirectly cost Americans tens of billions of dollars in higher prices and higher taxes over that same period. At least 43 percent of ADM’s annual profits are from products heavily subsidized or protected by the American government. Moreover, every $1 of profits earned by ADM’s corn sweetener operation costs consumers $10, and every $1 of profits earned by its ethanol operation costs taxpayers $30″
Uh, gee. If ethanol is so freakin’ wonderful, how come the free market cant support it?
If you can stop drinking bottled water that is one of the most important things you can do for the environment and for our local water supply.
What incentive do we have to be sure we have a safe drinking supply if we don’t ever use it? I know people who won’t drink tap water. At all.
If you refrigerate your water (and it doesn’t need to be a Brita filtration pitcher) the chlorine comes out of the water and you are left with cold, refreshing water… just like they sell at the store.
Well, thank you KSfarmgirl, for that timely, objective bit of reading. A 1995 paper citing statistics from 1979 and predicting what dire consequences might arise by 2000. All brought to you from the highly objective, non-agenda pushing Cato Institute.
The order backlog race is kind of a warped yardstick. It is important, but it also contains a lot of false achievement because the orders are placed by customers with a history of financial problems or not following through on commitments. The real test is actual deliveries.
Good point about attacking the messenger. That is not productive, it does not add to the understanding of the subject, and it is not even interesting reading. Several of the people who post to these blogs have a good intellect and it shows in their writing. Let’s hear more from those people.
Has it occurred to anyone that the reports used by the anti-ethanol people usually contain data which is not consistent with mainstream research? When a K-State authority refers to them as “math-challenged”, isn’t that noteworthy? There has to be something more relevant than using a 13-year old study based on 30-year old data.
Here is a challenge for P.J. As mentioned earlier here, there are several dimensions to the ethanol issue. Each of the issues gets mixed in with the discussions on any one subject so that the original subject gets lost. How about doing an article on each of the separate issues; energy in/out, cost in/out, the role of subsidy, food cost, and water?
Good idea. Lets add R&D to the list. ICM is working not only on the cellulosic idea, but with developing the by-products of the process into marketable products. I understand that the prototype plant in St. Joseph expects to collect as much revenue from the previously discarded by-products as from the ethanol by itself. Are you listening, P.J.?
And the next step. It is my understanding that the facility planned for Harvey County will use recycled waste water. Now if it can also use cellulosic trash it could be a great development.
A bit off topic but … MTW did a great performance of All Shook Up last night. I am really looking forward to their season finale Les Miserbles in three weeks. They will have extra performances of that one – should be good.
Its not really funny but at&t promised me that it would have 3G over a year ago. They do in Rogers/Bentonville Arkansas. So how come AT&T cant get it working here?
I was going to upgrade from iPhone v1 to iPhone v2 cause I wanted the 3G and the new GPS, but when I found out that Wichita area doesn’t have 3G coverage, I have decided to wait. No need to upgrade since v1 can still run the new 2.0 software.
Ms. Rengers: Sounds like you got taken by the old “silver dollar-with-two-tails” trick! Hope you enjoyed the lunch.
And also, the old “one hundred dollar bill wrapped around 30 one dollar bills” trick. Always looks impressive.
Incidentally, are you holding a locked canvas bag which he said was full of thousands of thousand dollar bills? Your check for $1,000 which he is holding is merely to prove your honest intention to hold the money bag safely for a few weeks until he returns with the key so you can divide up the money.
Be sure to hide the bag safely somewhere in the news room upstairs in the Eagle building!!!
It appears that the “Capitol Federal”s of the banking world will do fine. These are the ones who stayed dull and boring – taking in deposits, hosting my checking accounts and credit cards, making dull boring conventional home mortgages to ordinary working people.
In many ways this is a re-run of the S&L debacle a couple of decades ago. The ones who stayed true to their roots and mission (dull and boring) thrived. The ones who got ‘modern and fancy’ failed.
I agree with you, but please correct me if I’m wrong. The “modern and fancy” lenders became that way when Congress and the president loosened loan guidelines, basically giving the banks license to steal. From my understanding this (Congress) was exactly what caused the S&L crisis with one major difference: the S&L crisis was not FDIC guaranteed and most investors were crushed.
With McCain’s Keating 5 background (his self proclaimed biggest political mistake) he should have been screaming from the top of his lungs.
I think that is part of it. Also, as they became more sophisticated with creating an alphabet soup of derivitives they could hide the risks – for a while.
You are right about McCain and the Keating 5 – I would add that with Bush’s brother Neil involved with Silverado that GWB should also have been aware.
The difference you note wasn’t really there – S&Ls had FSLIC. Investors got hit; not depositors. As it whould be today. Note that shareholders of IndyMac came out empty-handed.
Another red flag – super-fast growth. I worked in Pasadena back in the 70s – never heard of IndyMac. But they balooned into a rather big bank. And on what?
People are reading the blogs because they will comment to me about them. I’ve been surprised that officeholders and business leaders are reading them. The posts are better than the uncredited opinion line comments. But they don’t go through a journalistic filter to verify accuracy and often the posts are assaults instead of comments. Although not as often in the business casual blogs.
I love this blog. It’s the best one offered by the Eagle. JWink is another story though. I really hate to bag on the guy, but he can be part of the problem.
People love reading the blog post and the comments if they contribute to the subject and offer good insight to it. But when people go on about crazy conspiracies and just bag on everything that has anything related to Wichita (naysayers we call them) it just kills the thread.
WE Blog when it first started was great. The people who commented were also very good. But then it just got overran by kooks, political hacks, naysayers, the JWinks and etc and it just became a very boring and uninformative place. Even the posted entries from the WE staff to the blog and it ceased to have anything to do with Kansas or Wichita. It’s solely focused on National events and national politics.
I just hope that it doesn’t happened to this blog. Please don’t let the likes of JWink steer this wonderful blog into one that caters to his naysayer, ultra negative and conspiracy point of view.
I can tell the authors who contribute to his blog are passionate and have a positive outlook on Wichita. Please keep it that way.
Joe: You have been missing. Some of us thought you had finally joined the military to get your life straightened out. I recall you indicated at the WE Blogger meetup at the EAGLE’s building, you were considering finally doing your patriotic duty.
” I really hate to bag on the guy, but he can be part of the problem.”
Yea right Joe! You seem to make bagging on certain people your life’s work.
One problem I see is that there are those who take constructive criticism of government decisions as ‘nay-saying’ or ‘Wichita-hating.’ That kind of attitude fosters group-think and in turn can lead to disaster.
I like the idea of a blog that focuses on our City rather than the more global/political arena of the WEBlog. However, if everyone just goes “rah rah” we don’t learn anything and we also don’t refine our approaches in a fashion that might just improve them. In particular it would not be good to have things totally dominated by WDDC and other booster groups at the expense of contrary views that might be held by ‘rank-and-file’ Wichitans.
All that said I’d like to make another pitch for Music Theater of Wichita. Their upcoming performances of Les Miserables promise to be fantastic. Their season so far has certainly not disappointed and they consistently draw thousands of people downtown. For Les Miserables they are scheduling extra performances so tickets should be available.
Carrie – might I suggest a thread on MTW in support of these performances at Century II? I have been to theater in New York, London and elsewhere. Our MTW can stand proud among them.
You’ve got it all. Power, passion, precision, and style. You’re sensuous, exotic, and temperamental. Sure, you’re expensive and high-maintenance, but you’re worth it.
“Take the Which Sports Car Are You? quiz.
Another thing that Rene Stevens has been able to do is periodically get her name out in public in ways that generate good will. I saw a bit of a good-natured swipe she took at Dawson Grimsley this morning – both of them are active in community charity work. This kind of thing – even without mentioning the company names – benefits the business.
An interesting disconnect – ‘my business is doing well but the economy is lousy’. I wonder if this is keeping businesses from investing and expanding. As a result, I wonder if a PERCEPTION of hard times ends up CREATING hard times.
*Sigh* I arrest my case. As you can see, this is what JWink is all about. I’m not going to be the only one he will be personally attacking on a regular basis. He does this to everybody that doesn’t subscribe to his negative and conspiracy points of view.
Great! Just great. I didn’t want a real example to happen, to see how a fire is started in a thread, but there you go.
Oh well. That’s the internet. The JWinks will always be there plugging away. Best just to ignore him.
And Mr. Ben I don’t make it my life’s work. I rarely post and I don’t go over to the WE Blog anymore. You know better than most that is not what I do.
You can criticize public officials and public projects all you want, but I don’t have to sit here and let the likes of JWink start spewing lies about public officials and projects. I call him out on it.
JWink, who believes that Wichita is ran by some oligarchy communist group is some unknown building downtown (his exact words) and me calling him out on it is hardly constructive criticism. He’s a kook.
I enjoy this blog very much, it’s wonderful to have an opportunity to both voice my opinion and view other’s as well. Many times it’s educational.
I think to many readers this format may still be a bit new and believe that the Eagle will know their true identity. I discovered first hand I was wrong. As more readers become comfortable, I look forward to very lively discussions and debates.
On what charge Joe? Or do you mean you REST your case? Well, “As you can see, this is what Joe! is all about … he’s not going to be the only one Joe will be personally attacking on a regular basis. He does this to everybody that doesn’t subscribe to his points of view.”
Jerry – welcome aboard! Picking up on my comments this afternoon – check out our own MTW in a couple of weeks. Should be a great show! I don’t know if you caught any of their shows earlier this season but they are really something to be proud of!
No matter. I don’t have any beef with you. You can back up JWink all you want. It doesn’t change my or anybody else perception of JWink.
You can be his friend, but just beware. That is all I have to say. You’re an adult. You’ll learn.
Besides that. Ben-welcome aboard! Nice to see you still have the passion to promote the wonderful treasure of our community and that is the Music Theatre of Wichita.
On Les Miserables, did you know that the Unabridged Novel by Victor Hugo is a 513,000 words novel (approx. 1700+ pgs).
It’s a great story indeed. I would love to see the performance at MTW.
ICT/Joe: I notice you have been busy this PM punching in your usual vitrolic comments … always attacking the messenger, but no attempt at debating the important issues facing Wichita.
In your absence and the absence of a couple of your associates, these blogs have actually been making sense.
And why no mention of your plans to join your peers in the military? This could get your life straightened out and back on track.
If you need directions, the all-military services recruiting offices are located at Central and West streets adjacent to the new Dillon’s Store. I suspect the U.S. Army can find an appropriate spot for you to get you back on track and in the ranks of the employed.
By the way, I have been wanting to ask someone, perhaps you know, where did Ed ________, (how soon we forget), former supervisor of downtown office buildings, go to after he left Wichita? Do you still keep in touch with him? Hope he is able to do better wherever he went than he did here in Wichita.
How long will it take until the rest of them figure out your con game. You never mention why you were chased out of Johnson Co., now you are in Wichita peddling.
It won’t take long. Don’t worry. You think you have everybody fooled.
Wondering how much you are going to flood the in-boxes to borderline harassment to the good people at the Eagle?
They’ll figure you out too, soon enough.
Oh! And by the way. I don’t need to pass on your message of disdain to the soldiers of the American Armed Forces for you. They understand that some people, like yourself JWink, are ungrateful about and hate the members of our military. They’ll still go on fighting for your freedom anyways.
May you soon leave Wichita, JWink. And let the door slam you in your butt on the way out. Go to your next stop and peddle your snake oil away from here.
Funny Joe … I was in the U.S. Army and reserves for quite a few years, left as a Captain. On the other hand, about three years ago when I met you at the EAGLE’s WE Blog meetup, you said you were “thinking” about joining the military to get your life in order. You are at that age where your peers are serving. What happened to you?
My my Joe, you do seem to get hot. I read and re-read JWink’s post and see no evidence of “message of disdain to the soldiers of the American Armed Forces” anywhere in it.
As for ‘beware’ I’m not worried. I’ve known JWink for a couple of years – not real well since we don’t really run in the same circles. I probably disagree with him politically more than I agree. But I don’t see him as a back-stabber.
I notice that you seem it to be a real negative for someone (other than a recruited city manager I guess) to be a ‘transplant.’ As a transplant myself I ask you: just how many decades do I have to live here to be a Wichitan in your eyes? Especially since I suspect that I have more adult years working, paying taxes, and investing in Wichita than you do. And doing pro bono work for the City.
Carrie – a suggestion for the Eagle. Ya’ll have done some of this recently with some features about nearby attractions. My suggestion goes a bit further. Publish a pull-out booklet of “trips on a tankful” featuring “mini-vacations” in Kansas. Advertising could be sold to various Bed&Breakfasts, restaurants, etc in the various towns that would be destinations. This benefits everyone – the nearby communities where I might spend my money and Wichitans looking for afffordable get-aways.
I can’s remember the exact title but an Eagle writer wrote a book 83,000 square miles or something like that. It has a lot of good stuff – but maps etc would help!
A Note to Mr. Rod Stewart. Hi Rod, I was also on that RV trip with all of you guys some 32 years ago! Your story couldn’t have explained Jack Hunt any better. He will certainly be misses forever, but what he did in Wichita and all the life’s that his life touched will live on for a long time. My deepest thoughts and sorrow to Wichita and all of his many friends and family.
Sincerely, Patty Warren
Do you remember the Chili Story?
I think most small business professionals think business conditions are good when they can make payroll week after week
Seriously, the economy is humming along quite nicely in some markets (i.e. Wichita) and really sputtering in others, like Arizona and California. I consider it more of a “bubble correction” than anything else out there.
Doesn’t the economy always “stink” in election years?
That’s too bad because that would have been and would have brought some more much needed retail development on Wichita’s south side. In fact, there’s very little visible retail of any kind anywhere along the I-235 corridor, unless you consider west Kellogg.
That, and that mobile home park has clearly never recovered from the storm that hit nearly 10 years ago.
There could be some hope. It might be awhile though.
There is still that one developer who wants to put a massive shopping center on 47th and I-135, pending that KDOT gets the funding to redo the 47th exits and bridge (which I assume they will.)
With the Harrah’s Casino going in to Mulvane, I suspect that 47th St. to Mulvane could be a great corridor for shopping and a Bass Pro-Shop.
The whole BassPro/WaterWalk fiasco is a tremendous black eye for the entire WaterWalk project and everyone involved in that project. Mayans makes a very convenient scapegoat for those who deserve the real blame – the boosters and developers of WaterWalk.
Even though City of Wichita has spent a bundle of dollars for temporary city managers, Wichita hasn’t had an effective city manager since Chis Cherches quit back in about 2003.
After Cherches left, I believe George Kolb arrived from somewhere in southeast United States. Mr. Kolb had some good points but didn’t relate well to people so he was soon history.
Kolb was followed by “acting” city manager, Ed Flentje, a WSU professor, who more or less temporarily filled the city manager’s seat at city council meetings.
Then came the short and aborted attempt to bring former Sunrise, Florida, city manager Pat Salerno from Florida to Wichita. Word on the street was that while visiting Wichita to look for a house, Pat recognized the hopelessness of doing anything constructive with Downtown Wichita due to the white elephant downtown arena and its unbelievable lack of parking and no tenant. So Salerno said NO TO WICHITA and let the chips fall.
Then the city council looked at the city’s stable of potential acting city managers and chose Scott Moore, an assistant city manager with excellent people skills if minimal experience in managing larger cities.
Again word on the street is most people feel the city council should settle back and give Scott Moore a chance to show his skills for at least a year. This would give time for the next April city elections to take place with a probable turn-over in city councilmen.
But, again, it appears the same city council people who messed up the Pat Salerno search are again out hiring another expensive search firm to come up with more names of city manager prospects.
So look for more big tax expenditures for travel and dinners by council people with little or no progress.
It should be clear Wichita doesn’t need more government subsidized FISHING AND HUNTING SPORTING GOODS STORES.
First, Gander Mountain in Wichita has been a collosal failure even though it’s the Wal-Mart of hunting and fishing retail stores.
Two, Wichita already has a number of privately owned sporting goods stores selling hunting and fishing equipment. We don’t need local government meddling in this fragile business.
Three, Wichita is definitely not a fishing destination unless you like to stand on the Harry and Lincoln street bridges casting out into the polluted Arkansas River when it is actually running some water after a rain. I suspect Carp are the main fish caught there.
Hunting in the Flint Hills northeast of Wichita and in the Gyp Hills southeast of Wichita has some potential mostly for ducks and pheasants. We used to hunt jack rabbits out in the fields of Pratt County near Preston and Cullison but I suspect the jack rabbit population is much diminished from those days. In fact, jack rabbits might be extinct.
Most likely the wild game left in Kansas, like our “wild geese,” will run up begging for food unless camoflaged hunters manage to shoot them first.
Ben: You are correct, others fouled up the River Walk project around the Boathouse and it’s still fouled up. But Carlos Mayans took the black eye. Carlos, where are you now that we need you back in city government?
I agree – give Wichitan Moore a chance. I’m sure he can also tap Ed Flentje for advice and connections whenever he needs them. Perhaps a home-grown Wichitan will make a better choice than a hired gun from outside.
The ill-fated WaterWalk was a half-baked idea from the beginning. I was at the Council meeting where it was initially approved – plans were nebulous at best. It was to be the great netertainment district where “east meets west” and all of Wichita would frequent. Of course, I remember all of that being said about Old Town which has not lived up to expectations (see today’s Eagle about TIFs).
WaterWalk today looks nothing like what was sold to the Council. Over-priced condos and a sub-market sporting goods store – hardly the glitz presented long ago. As for Gander Mountain check out its financials at http://www.morningstar.com. Hardly impresssive.
It is sad to see the Boathouse in such derelict condition. Assuning it doesn’t get torched I expect it to be declared an eyesore and demolished … so the prime real estate can be given away for a dollar a year.
Now lets see shockball and Joe! (ictbest) back up their claims that Carlos “reneged” on a contract. My memories of the history of this ill-fated fiasco are consistent with Mayans’.
If Bass Pro moving to Wichita was entirely contingent upon the Wichita City Council approving the Waterwalk, why wasn’t the Waterwalk approval by the City Council completely contingent on Bass Pro locating here?
Sorry Ben! But I know the truth and I have never said that It as Mayans that botched it. Go ahead! Do the search on every single one of my post. Lord knows you have the time.
I liked Mayans, I voted for him and I supported him.
So that blows your assumption out the water. But that is the usual with you.
I should have been more specific that it was just shockball this time. But Joe, you know it is your typical MO to blame failures in government projects on so-called nay-sayers somehow sabatoging them rather than acknowledging that they were simply ill-conceived in the first place.
As for Bass Pro Shop coming elsewhere locally – ain’t gonna happen.
That’s a tough one. I would guess that the physician should give detailed WRITTEN instructions to both the patient and some sort of ’significant other’ or care-giver. After all, the DR can’t go home with the patient but hopefully he has some sort of companion.
Carrie – I got a rather slick mailer today from “Sumner Resorts – Harrah’s Kansas”. Quite a booklet touting their proposal as the biggest, most jobs, most revenue etc. Real postage stamps, not metered. I wonder if they sent those to everyone or if they have some sort of mailing list – and if so what is the list from?
They are definitelymaking a big push at the state level – oretty much against the Sumner County Commission.
Since I don’t really have a dog in this fight I find it rather interesting to watch this play out. As a prediction I think Harrah’s will win. It is a state decision and they will look at the bottom line rather than the specific Sumner county position.
Basically, the doctor and patient relationship is broken. Society needs a whole new way of accessing health care.
One step would be if Wichita (and other metro areas) emphacized special training in and after high school for health care workers. Instead Wichita is pandering by training aircraft workers which should be done by the aircraft companies themselves.
Step two is to replace “medical doctors” with “medical applicators.” M.A.’s would be people who work their way up the health applications ladder to reach various designations along the way.
Medical doctors obviously have choked the health pipeline system to the point that very, very few people can obtain adequate medical care in the United States. Amazingly people who belong to special socialized medicine groups such as employees insured by large corporations, university insured groups, and veterans … can obtain better care. Perhaps that points to the future of medical care.
JWInk, I strongly disagree. We do NOT need another government “fix”. If government wants to do something contructive, get rid of the laws that disallow small businesses to pool their resources for better benefit packages. Get some competition out there and let the free market reign.
When government saddles the medical community with medicare, medicade, HMO’s, frivilous law suits and servicing the illegal alien community through emergency room visits this does not equate to “medical doctors obviously choking the health pipeline system”.
The more government jacks it up, the more they think they can fix it.
I’d like to see more progress with these but from probably a slightly different perspective. Since my parents were both in medicine I am probably a bit more ‘medically literate’ than many. However, I can see a role of a ‘retail clinic’ in conjunction with a person’t ‘medical home.’ It is often diffficult to get medical advice in ‘real time’ (night and weekend for example). If a clinic coud handle the simple stuff and then leave ‘real’ issues for the DR we might all benefit. Also, from my own perspective, being able to get routine tests done at convenient times (and then commuicated to my DR) would be a definite benefit.
I don’t see these clinics as replacing the traditional DR-patient relationship but rather supplementing it.
The gasoline filling station companies probably think like the Wichita’s Water Department. If Wichita water consumers use more water … up goes the price. If Wichita water users conserve and USE LESS WATER, UP GOES THE PRICE EVEN MORE!
JW – there is a difference. In the case of water there is a great deal of infrastructure that needs to be maintained and improved. Also there is the forward-thinking recharge project. It all costs money but believe me – ‘tomorrow’ we will all be glad we made the investments.
According to EAGLE reporter, A. Atwater, author of this thread, Secretary of U.S. Health and Human Services, Mike Leavitt, called blogging “a very powerful engine for setting public policy.” Of course, Leavitt was talking about federal public policy.
I also hope that positive thoughtful blogging also contributes to public discussion of local issues right here in Wichita, river city, as well as Kansas, USA.
In Wichita, we have very few, if any, local government politicians who have the people skills, political abilities, knowledge of local issues, etc. to stand up with hands on their hips before an audience of TAX-PAYING CITIZENS to receive questions and comments and offer replies in an intellectually acceptable manner.
Here in Wichita, most of our local highly paid but underqualified politicians prefer to hide behind a dias in their commission/council chambers … attempting to appear as judges … to avoid a dialogue with the citizens who elected them.
So, the only way the public can hope to talk to elected representatives is through this relatively new phenomena of “blogging” and hope that some of the information reaches ears of our elected politicians.
Let the market decide. Obviously, given the quickness with which the decision to close was made after the store opened May 23, the market may have already decided. Good luck, though, to those who think a petition is going to change any minds at corporate.
At one time, the price of oil was regulated; as I recall, the maximum price allowed per barrel was $25, and, the price of gasoline reflected this regulation.
Not that I really care (to me coffee is coffee) it does seem awful quick to pull the plug. I would think they would give it a winter – figure hot drinks sell better in cold water.
BTH: I had to think what “Dave Warren’s best” refered to. Then I remembered that David Warren is head of the Wichita’s Water Department. I happened to talk with David Warren recently at Wichita’s city hall.
I mentioned the city of Phoenix tries to save water by using treated sewage treatment effluent for some purposes. I presume those uses include watering golf courses, parks, etc. Frankly I don’t recall the uses but it seems to save a substantial amount of water.
I also don’t remember price of oil being regulated. However I do remember the airlines being regulated although don’t know how that worked out in practice. I do believe the glory days of TWA, Braniff, Frontier, etc. during the 1960’s and 70’s were during those days of airline regulation.
I wonder if anyone has noticed that there are TWO water pipes across the ditch at Zoo Blvd. The larger one is blue; the smaller one is red. They added the smaller one several years ago … so West Wichita now has hot water!
If you don’t believe me ask Dave Warren – he confirmed it for me.
The right answer is: “think about but do nothing.”
Frankly the purpose of these kinds of agencies is to provide government funds to support “think tanks.” These often employ out of work politicians who want to remain within the Washington beltway before returning to their home states.
In the end, nothing of value will be produced by this $300 mill. About the only saving grace its a little less waste than Wichita middle-class taxpayers are financing for the unwanted, unneeded white elephant downtown ice hockey arena.
BTH: When I was driving on Zoo Boulevard across the Big Ditch, I looked but didn’t see the red hot water pipe. I also looked for the red pipe next to the big blue pipe at K-96 and Halstead Road that brings part of Wichita’s drinking water in from the Equus Beds, but again didn’t see it.
As you probably know, Pratt has it’s world famous twin water towers on north Main Street marked HOT and COLD … so most of Pratt has hot water as far as I know.
As evidence it works, the water in the Pratt municipal swimming pool is currently up in the eighties. And the McDonald’s Restaurant on east First Street (Highway 54) uses the water to make its steaming hot coffee in the mornings.
In defense of the study it does strike me that some of our systems seem to work better than others. Might we learn something by studying the successes and failures of different approaches. That said, it is hard for me to see $300 million.
Three methods of appraising the value of property are 1) cost approach (land + improvements), 2) sales comparisons and 3) income capitalization.
Obviously as the potential income rises from a piece of agricultural property, the value based on income capitalization for that property is going to rise accordingly.
However, beware of the 1929 effect that might be just over the horizon. Or the game of musical chairs … if you are a buyer, don’t get left without a chair to sit in.
Starbucks is the dumbest business idea yet. Yes people have been paying $4-5 for a cup of coffee until they started to have to pay $4 for a gallon of gas or milk. By the way does that make that cup of coffee $12-15 dollars a gallon. What is more important the milkshake coffee or getting to work?
The reactions Starbucks evokes are interesting. Got a vitriol-laden voice mail from a gentleman this morning proclaiming “why does anyone care” about a Starbucks failure and blatantly stereotyping its customers.
I’m not a Starbucks customer – I don’t like coffee and gas prices are destroying my budget – but I’m rather intrigued by the anger and the political overtones in this gentleman’s voice about the company.
I think some people view it as ‘conspicuous consumption’ and lash out accordingly. As I noted above I really don’t care one way or the other – been drinking battery acid so long I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference anyway.
As for “why does anyone care” I tend to agree – from a political perspective. Should it be a ‘public’ concern whether my favorite coffee house or bar or whatever remains open? I think not.
“There’s a balance out there that will have to be achieved between reckless government spending and equally reckless anti-taxation zealots.”
I agree. That is why I support school bond issues and supported Vo-Tech’s efforts to not be eviscerated several years ago. However, the Arena crossed the line to reckless; that will likely haunt local politics for many years. This has created a substantial level of distrust toward both County and City leadership. Remember, last election cycle two incumbent Commissioners were turned out.
This distrust also was a factor in the defeat of the casino proposal last year. Without a concrete proposal of where and what we were told “trust ut.” Also, “Vote Yes Yes” began to sound a lot like “Vote Yea Rah”
In the spirit of full disclosure, I’m not an arena critic. I’m quite confident, actually, that the arena will prove itself an asset to Wichita.
But with that said, I think the point Mark made that I’m trying to reinforce is this: Economic development can’t happen in today’s climate with the taxpayer on the sidelines.
It’s a wonderful thought that business should create its own incentives to stay or go, but it’s unrealistic in today’s competitive climate. Dissent is an essential part of our form of government, and it’s got a place in the community’s policy dialogue – as long as it doesn’t evolve into zealotry.
It’s fine to keep spending down. But not out. We can and should be vigilant about how our tax dollars are spent. We should never become obsessed with preventing their expenditure.
I ’sort of’ agree. Where we part company is when we subsidize one local business at the expense of another. For example – subsidizing sports bars in Old Town with taxes collected from Players out northwest. Ot Gander Mountain at the expense of Dick’s, Sheplers, etc. If you look carefully at the economic analysis of these you will find that all we are doing is re-arranging WHERE entertainment money os spent within Sedgwick County – not increasing anything.
I fear that you are correct that taxpayers are retreating to the sidelines. And I am not a supporter of Karl (although we are friends). But I do think that our current leadership (sic) has so alienated the public that there will be bad consequences.
Our hope now is that Marcey Gregory wins in November. As a successful business person and small town mayor she might bring some new ideas to the Commission. And, as a business person she knows you have to both keep spending in check but also ’spend money to make money’.
It will be an interesting race out in my part of the County.
We really don’t part company, save the merits of the question, “To what extreme does city government go to breathe some life into downtown?”
Former GWEDC chief Dave Wood called the dilemma you note the “transferral effect.” No new money, just the same money headed to different places.
The notion that tax money has a limited place in economic development is a legitimate subject for discussion. I think you can argue that the city needs to incentivize downtown redevelopment. To what extent should make a lively policy discussion.
The notion that it has no place in economic development will damage Wichita’s economy.
I frankly believe that McCormick’s column is a complete over-reaction to a democratic process. I don’t recall Lambke being the “yes-man” of city council either. Perhaps Gray will carry the torch.
“Economic development can’t happen in today’s climate with the taxpayer on the sidelines.”
I agree completely with this. But taxpayers cannot fund unlimited economic development.
Paying $6,000,000.00 to clean up the Warren Theater TIF situation was a mistake. Yes, it was the cleanest way to absolve the mess, but the mistake should have never happened. The Waterwalk should have NEVER been authorized without Bass Pro Shop being the anchor tenant. The downtown arena location should have NEVER been discussed until all land was acquired. Exploration Place and Cowtown’s business plans should have been scrutinized by on outside, independent accounting firm like AGH. And I am definitely weary of the recently passed arena zone TIF.
More transparency. Less conflicts of interest. More accountability to taxpayers.
My concern, quite frankly, is with an environment where support for a major economic development driver – which is exactly what the Jabara tech ed center is – could cost a politician their seat. Jabara is tax money well spent.
There has been reports that State or local incentives to recruit companies or the level of taxation has very little to do with companies locating.
Other than extreme taxation and heavy regulation, which will deter and even have business leave the area, the things a company looks for is: An educated work force, amenities of the area (i.e. the downtown arena is a huge + for us), low crime (something we really need to work for), and the general attitude of the people that live here.
If we really want to do good for our community we really need to focus on lowering crime and bringing about a unity positive attitude for our community. Wichita needs an identity, and it is getting there. But we can do more and it doesn’t really take more taxation to do it.
Lower the crime substantially and build a positive identity for Wichita and business will come.
Karl Peterjohn will serve the county well. He isn’t a zealot as everything thinks he is. A zealot is somebody like Ms. Stuart in Park City. That is somebody we don’t need in Wichita or Sedgwick Co. government.
I think it was Des Moines I read about in the Washington Post some years back. They took the approach of focusing on education/training. Develop your work force for high-value-added jobs and the companies will come in to take advantage of that work force.
The ‘Think in Green’ sessions we had here presented a lot of evidence that educated workers want amenities including outdoor recreaton. Improving our river front and bike/hiking trails support that. I have been told by personnel people at local companies that prospective employees ask about such things.
My only beef with the Jabara facility is its narrow focus. We need to be diversifying away from over-reliance on aircraft. And I guess I am still a bit angered over the evisceration of Vo-Tech; including its aircraft programs. Why didn’t we build upon what we already had?
I also question the VERY job-specific training we seem to be heading to at Jabara. Having been involved in education/training for many years it is my position that we (the public) provide a strong basic foundation and then the employer provides the specifics of special machines etc. As a community we should be preparing our workers to fill MANY possible positions; not just one.
What happens when Boeing out-sources to China and their workers are so narrow they cannot transfer their skills to elsewhere? I want Boeing to have made that NARROW investment; I want to make the investment that allows them to move elsewhere and continue paying taxes.
Now, for a possible product that we should be building here – an item often bought overseas and whose demand is increasing. It is related to aircraft in that it requires the combination of strength and light weight. Aerodynamic design. Looks like a giant airplane propellor. WIND TURBINES! We should be building them here to exploit the “Saudi Arabia of Wind” that we sit in the middle of.
I disagree strongly with any suggestion that economic incentives have little to do with company relocation. There’s a boatload of evidence out there – including reporting we’ve done in the Eagle – that suggests that our neighbors have more money and more incentives to attract business than we do.
One recent example – albeit apparently unsuccessful – comes to mind: When SemGroup – now in the bankruptcy headlines – bought Koch’s asphalt operation and moved most of it to Tulsa, it received a seven-figure annual payroll rebate from the state.
BTH, you raise several legitimate points: Jabara does appear tailored – at least in its formative stage – toward aviation. However, again referencing stories we’ve written, the competition for airplane builders is intense and laden with money. It’s clear that we’re going to lose some of the major builders if we don’t prepare a workforce to address the onslaught of baby boomer retirements they face.
Jabara’s long-term future, though, is exactly what you suggest. It’s hard for me to find fault with addressing an acute aviation need first, however.
Vo-tech is another issue, one built around leadership issues, it would appear.
This is a significant step for hospitals and for physicians. The culture of secrecy and hiding errors only serves to protect a system which is more interested in preserving the guild than in creating systems and structures which result in higher quality care. Only when we are open and honest about mistakes can we learn how to prevent them in the future.
I’m willing to accept an apology and a recognition that we are all human … IF … they seek to make me whole. Any and all costs of remediation should be on them.
I doubt that they will fall much further. While the speculative bubble might have burst the underlying supply/demand factors remain – particularly the massive increase in demand in the developing world.
I do hope the demise of Suburban Assault vehicles continues. I thoroughly enjoy laughing at those drivers when they whine about how much it costs to fill their Hummers!
Great… now they’ll have even more to spend on direct-to-consumer marketing. Heaven help us all! The biggest losers will be the doctors’ office staff who will now have to buy their own bagels.
Having been “wined and dined” by professional sales reps in the past I can see two sides to this issue. In order for me to take time from my schedule to sit through a presentation about the latest innovation in “whatever” it makes a certain amount of sense to do it over lunch or something similar. I’m not saying the drinks buy the sale but perhaps they “buy the time” for the presentation.
At the annual Kansas Environmental Conference the food and drinks are routinely provided by vendors. These vendors take advantage of the situation and have a captive audience for their wares.
It’s a fine line but can be respected IF the vendors realize it.
This isn’t really news. The VA hospital in Lexington, Kentucky piloted this policy of error self-admission and reporting over a decade ago. You know it works when their malpractice insurance costs have trended downward, reflecting lower costs of litigation and settlement. Plus, when local litigators start pitching a fit about how they can’t make as much money, you know this policy is working.
They have a sign at the front door that says “Human error is inevitable” and back it up with a policy that does not punish those that come forward and admit they made an error. Moreover, the hospital sends out a representative and doctor to apologize to former patients, or their survivors, and even refer them to legal counsel if they feel the need for remuneration.
The reason this is taking so long to filter through the health care system is two-fold:
1. Doctors are loathe to admit they are wrong, even when facing irrefutable evidence. Their hubris and unwarranted confidence is a major personal malfunction and unforgivable sin.
2. Lawyers who profit from the status quo ante will fight any move or policy that results in a lower paycheck for them.
These are two powerful and greedy groups, but the American public deserves the best, and that comes from free-market forces that allow businesses to make the best fiscal choices, even though it may make some doctors ashamed, and cost a few lawyers an extra million in revenue from the litigation lottery.
The wheels of big democracy grind slowly but eventually get there … if the wheels do roll too far at times. Lets face it, it wasn’t the “danishes and bagels,” it was the free trips to the Caribbean, Hawaii and/or Aspen with a “medical class” thrown in. That might still go on, who knows.
Or split the money made on the 50 cent ticket surcharge among the various museums in Wichita on the basis of attendance. As a Kansas history buff that would help museums I am interested in.
How about putting a condensed version of the museum in the new Intrust Arena? Surely there’d be enough people who would want to visit and pay a nominal fee to defray housing costs, maintenance, etc.?
Robert … I was thinking of that as well, but I’m sure that is something that would have had to have been thought of prior to the arena design.
BTH … You also have a good idea, although I think it would still be easier to raise it 25 or 50 cents at a time.
And JWink … I can’t say I agree with you. I’m not sure what a ticket surcharge at a sporting event would have to do with, say, Cowtown. I think it would be hard enough to convince people in Lawrence sports fans to support a state-sanctioned sports museum in Wichita.
Put the Kansas sports Hall of Fame in the salt mine at Hutch. Kill 2 birds with one stone – they’re having a difficult time attracting visitors and it’s already fully staffed.
Being just a bit more serious, the clear solution to me, anyway, is to incorporate the exhibit into another existing museum to defray expenses. It is not viable as a stand alone entity and I am absolutely not in favor of paying surcharges on anything to fund something like that.
I am curious of your opinion on the new Ken Mar TIF passed by the council. Also, do you believe there is a conflict of interest regarding Kevass Harding?
Don – NO. My point is that those who believe the KSHOF is worthy of support can support it. Just like I do with my membership to the Zoo. Don’t tax the rest of us.
Onlu two bits? How about a 2 bit tax on tickets to buy me a new house?
This issue and Bob Lutz’ column today about next summer’s 75th anniversary of the National Baseball Congress tournament in Wichita – which is one of my favorite things on this Earth – left me pondering in the early morning hours today.
We write a lot about business models, and it should be pretty clear by now that the model at the HOF isn’t working. That’s why I have to side with Dan’s idea for a ticket surcharge.
And if you haven’t been to L-D lately, go take a look. It’s a rundown mess – faded outfield walls, restrooms with gang graffiti, advertising literally peeling off the walls. The only things up to date are the outrageous concession prices – a nice lady from Goddard apologized to me yesterday when I dropped $2.75 for a very good but small cup of sweet tea.
I wonder why Wichita is so apathetic about its sports history. I suspect the HOF is going to have to retool its management and business models to survive. As for Lutz’ ideas to spruce up next summer’s anniversary tournament, I look around L-D and wonder if anyone cares enough to even listen.
Jerry,
Having been to Ken Mar recently – and with the disclosure that I appreciate the historical and cultural significance of the area – I believe the Ken Mar TIF is one of the best-intentioned that the city has created. Unlike many in town, this one does appear consistent with the definition of a TIF – the redirection of tax revenues to improve a blighted area.
You might recall the the Maize IMAX theater idea died because the city couldn’t bring itself to declare an empty wheat field along K-96 a blighted area. It’s reassuring to find a governmental body with a conscience, isn’t it? In a nutshell, I see Ken Mar as a perfect spot for a TIF.
I’m not sure what you mean by a conflict of interest with Mr. Harding. His interest in the property has had more than a year to be vetted. Tell me more about what you mean.
Bill – I agree. I see the KenMar one as similar to the Hillside TIF by Wesley. Driven not by a few eclectic over-proced bars but by genuine commercial enterprises.
Thank you for the response. I’ll address Mr. Harding first. I have a rule of thumb I try to live by that states “if it can appear as a conflict of interest, treat it as it is a conflict of interest”.
Numerous comments have been made in this paper regarding the electorate being ignorant on City/County issues being the reason Tom Winters lost. While Mr. Harding may have been totally vetted (and I trust your opinion on that Bill) it simply does not pass the smell test. This is exactly how good people lose elected office.
TIF seems to be the flavor of the moment in the Wichita area and this concerns me greatly. This is a very slippery slope in which the more I am exposed to it the more I am against it.
My greatest concern is the council lacking the business acumen to make such decisions. I would like to see at a minimum a transparant meeting with the council and numerous local business members and academia to discuss the pros and cons of any TIF transaction. What is the business model? what is the marketing plan? What is the employment outlook? The number one question to me anyway is what is the ROI (return on investment)?
At the same time an independent accounting firm (preferably local) presents their review of the data presented.
That being said the numbers should meet established goals and criteria prior to reaching the council level. This combined with an EXACTING standard on what constitutes a blighted area or an area of historical significance should lead to the councils’ vote.
In closing I am absolutely in favor of economic development, however I feel there must be a strict justification process that the council needs to adhere to for these types of transactions.
“I wonder why Wichita is so apathetic about its sports history.”
I think I can address that a bit … and my comments will also show my antipathy to the Arena. A significant portion of our population is college educated – particularly those of us with significant disposable income. We tend to follow the college games – not local (semi)pro teams. Thus you will find me at Players cheering for my Bruins in basketball or maybe the Bulldogs in football. That is one of the reasons sports bars do so well here (and someone really had to try hard to fail at Oscars).
So, in regards to Wichita’s ’sports history’ many of us do not share that legacy.
NBC draws well because it is simple entertainment and during a ‘doldrum’ time. I remember my young son’s reaction getting a ball signed by the ‘big players’ one night. Of course, the players aren’t really all that big but to a 7-year-old they sure are.
I would think that baseball would be the exception to my rule – largely due to the fact that it needs smaller numbers to make it work and also that many of our colleges play much earlier. Of course, for me at least there IS the competition with my beloved Cubs and Red Sox!
If the HOF is going to succeed it needs to have a reasonable plan. For the life of me I cannot see having BOTH a KS and a Wichita HOF. Perhaps just one and perhaps on a smaller scale. Also, does it need a full-time director getting paid twice what the taxpayers make?
I suspect the Sports Commission has reached its high point when it convinced a narrow majority to vote for their Arena. Perhaps now they should focus some of their energy on raising donations to support their venues – including the HOF.
Interesting issue. How many of these couple would have been living together anyway – things have changed a lot over the decades. In fact, looking at the reverse, how many couples do NOT legally marry due to the possibility of LOSING survivor benefits etc.
Now, to open another can of worms – this is one of the reasons for the ‘gay marriage’ issue. If they are a ‘couple’ then why not allow the legal status?
The attitude for the museum has been “Build it and they will come.”, there is no business model. There should have been a restaurant in there. There should have been a private Kansas Athletic Club that was associated with the restaurant with preference to members and an annual meeting for inductees. It amazes me how worthless these museums have made themselves and wonder why no one wants to support them. There has to be something of value that brings people in and back. Bob Hanson adds no value to the Hall. I’m not sure what value he brings to Wichita.
That’s the trouble with the medical, dental and hospital businesses in a nutshell … they don’t guarantee anything they do and when they screw up, they still try to charge you.
About the NBC tournament … a few minutes ago I was driving by Lawrence-Dumont Stadium. I heard Michael Dean, the perennial score keeper from somewhere up by the Great Lakes, playing “Take me out to the ballgame” on his harmonica. Good job again Michael.
So I stopped by for a few minutes and talked to Paul and Betty, the traditional ticket takers at the NBC games. Paul has been working the Wichita baseball games so long, he started at the old Island Park in the Arkansas River next to the Broadview Hotel. Considering the first games in L-D Stadium were played in 1935 or 36, Paul must have started at the Island Park stadium in the early 1930’s.
Paul has told me that he reached that “island” baseball stadium by walking part way across the Douglas Street bridge and then walking down an old stairway, down to the southern tip of the island below the bridge. Then it was only a hop, skip and jump north to that Stadium entrance.
The story is that wooden stadium burned down. Later the old WPA, one of Franklin Roosevelt’s reconstruction programs, filled in the channel on the west side of the island, about where McLean Boulevard is today, using wheelbarrows and mule drawn drag lines to completely eliminate that historic storied old island park.
Somehow, about the same time, the WPA also built Lawrence Stadium, later renamed Lawrence-Dumont Stadium to honor Wichita’s father of baseball, Hap” Dumont. An interesting book about Hap Dumont and his experiences at Lawrence-Dumont Stadium is in most area libraries but I can’t think of its name right now.
Meanwhile on the east bank of the Arkansas River was the headquarters of the Arkansas Valley trolley line that headed out for Newton and Hutchinson and other Wichita suburban locations. The two story AVI building was adjacent to and on the west side of the Broadview hotel.
The historic, magnificent Broadview Hotel towered over the entire area, anchoring the west end of Wichita’s then busy Douglas Avenue, perhaps the busiest intersection in Wichita during the 1920’s to 1970’s.
On the west side of Waco, where Wichita Chamber of Commerce stands now, the southwest corner lot was reserved for another hotel about the size of the Broadview that was started but never finished. Also the old downtown Missouri Pacific Railroad station stood on that lot.
And to complete the railroad story, the Midland Railroad had a railroad station on the west side of McLean Boulevard, south of Douglas, where the Metropolitan Baptist Church is located today.
The Midland Railroad’s tracks ran south on the east side of L-D baseball stadium offering free seating to watch the baseball games on the outside of the right field fence.
So Wichita’s railroads, hotels and baseball seemed to go together in the old days.
Did they say not BILL? Be careful when you get your next bill in the mail cause they might try to adjust other areas (hidden fees for their mistakes). I was one of them that was billed incorrectly but still had to cough up the dough!
“Arkansas Valley trolley line that headed out for Newton and Hutchinson and other Wichita suburban locations”
While a bit different perhaps a ‘local’ trolley throughout downtown might be something worth supporting. Such downtown transportation might help answer the parking question about the Arena and also help with parking problems in Old Town.
This would allow me to come downtown; do dinner at one place, perhaps take in a show, a drink somewhere afterwards, then back to my car. Only have to park once.
We need to start thinking ‘outside of the box’ in finding ways to make downtown successful.
I’m interested in what you mean by “adds no value” to the HOF in regards to Mr. Hanson.
As a volunteer for the Hall of Fame, I know that Mr. Hanson is NOT an employee here but gives his time and efforts voluntarily as well. He works very hard to support the future of this great organization and knows the true value it brings to our community.
With the moon headed to Full as it rose above Lawrence-Dumont Stadium earlier this evening, the final championship game was played with the Santa Barbara Foresters emerging as the winner and the Seattle Studs the runners up.
After a variety of awards were announced by the NBC staff and the final shakes and hugs given, these NBC championship teams entered their large traveling buses to leave L-D stadium to head for homes and/or colleges in many cases.
While it’s warm this evening and the conviviality is still echoing in the night … the cool north winds will soon arrive to begin another fall and winter.
jerry – I plan to work out in more detail a transit proposal that might just work here in Wichita. I start rather conservatively – trying to serve the area between Ridge and Hillside and about Pawnee to 29th N. Couple that with almost saturation downtown from Delano to Old Town (and points in between) during ‘critical’ times. I’d add special park-and-ride service for events when and if they occur.
This could be done with existing infrastructure. Then, if this works, we can build upon it.
bth: I think the Wichita transit bus routes should be extended south to Haysville and north to Park City. I looked into extending the system to Haysville perhaps three years ago and gave a voluntary written report to the Haysville mayor. The main point I recall is that the projected ridership might not justify the expense.
I really look forward to seeing your ideas, especially the park and ride. The area has some pretty large parking areas on the outskirts that would allow the funneling of people downtown.
I would like to see major east/west (Goddard/Andover) and North/South (Newton/Mulvane-train?) trunk lines. As an employer I think it would be a nice “perk” if I supplied shuttle service from the trunk line to the front door. Add simple, straight line of sight branch lines in key areas combined with downtown saturation (trolley, monorail or buses) and I truly think we could have something nice.
This is a great city that desperately needs some infrastructure. Safe, dependable, cost-effective transit would really make this place attractive for new businesses, conventions and families.
While I would LOVE to have the out-lying trunk lines (like we had in Chicago area) I am staying conservative – at least to start. Trying to work with only existing infrastructure and rolling stock.
Ridership is in many ways a ‘chicken-egg’ question – and right now I cannot ‘prove’ that riders will use a system if I build it. So, instead, I just want to look at re-deploying what we have.
bth: You just reminded me why transit BUSES will probably always be preferable to electric transit vehicles on tracks. Buses are a lot more flexible.
Of course, as we know, Wichita had a full fledged electric trolley system back in the years before 1940 that finally succumbed to the automobile. I know it went to Newton, Halstead and Hutchinson. I haven’t had time to research if it went south towards Wellington. I think it did because someone pointed out an old embankment going through Waco-Wigo vicinity down south of Haysville. I know from the old maps, a trolley line went up through Riverside area with a turn around in front of the “Perk.”
I wonder if there is a map of the old trolley lines in the 1930’s?
Incidentally, I would like to see a “Museum of Old Cameras and Photographic Equipment,” replace or augment the Kansas Sports Hall of Fame. I think a lot of interest might exist and a lot of old photographic equipment is becoming extinct with the new digital stuff.
I wonder how to get the ball rolling on this idea?.
I’d rather take your word for it rather than have to experience this first hand given the usual life changing stressors associated with hospitals. On the other hand, flavorable food can be an emotional comfort strategy…
As a civic activist mentioned recently, it would be better if the Wichita City Council quit using these TIF (tax increment financing) districts to white-wash the tax monies they want to contribute to private developers. The city council should go ahead and write checks using the taxpayers money. After the hoopla ends, that’s basically what the City Council is trying to accomplish.
By paying tax money directly to private developers, the subterfuge of giving the money away on flimsy excuses and reducing taxes for schools and other uses would not be needed by the Wichita City Council.
Also remember, a special tax is already assessed against property owners in the central business district. This is used to support the so-called Downtown Business Corporation which cost a small fortune to support the “Music Man of Wichita,” Ed Wolverton, who fled for the east coast when the “band uniforms didn’t arrive.”
As usual in Wichita, looks like everybody is grabbing for the same tax dollars and using the 1/2 billion dollar unwanted, unneeded white elephant downtown ice hockey arena as the excuse.
Incidentally, can anyone remember who wanted this 1/2 billion tax dollar albatross arena other than the three holdover Sedgwick County Commissioners, TOM WINTERS (soon to be gone), DAVE UNRUH AND TIM NORTON.
Remember that old Communist Party saying: “Take taxes from the hard working middle class taxpayers of Wichita, all of whom have better uses for their money, according to their talents and abilities …… and give to private developers who want your hard earned tax money to spend on their personal visions and dreams whether or not they have any possible chance of success.”
JW, I have a hard time equating TIF money with a direct government handout, since its nature actually is rebated tax proceeds from increased development value. Instead, a TIF, to this layman, actually is a government bet on the success of a development.
Which isn’t to say that TIFs are perfect development tools. An argument can be made – and apparently is by the county – that the packages are being handed out by City Hall without proper analysis and monitoring.
Again, it seems dangerous to me to drift away from the public-private partnership to redevelop downtown. That partnership can certainly be improved, but any move away from it is foolhardy, in my view.
I find it somewhat amusing that the County complains that TIF money might be used for infrastructure in support of their Arena. County seems to be saying that the City should be paying for that infrastructure directly. NO! That infrastructure should be paid for from the $200+ million sales tax collected.
In their ads for their Arena the County claimed that the sales tax would cover infrastructure, parking, and operating reserves. Unfortunately cost overruns in construction have depleted those funds. So, the City is picking up the tab for infrastructure. It should come as no surprise that the City would want to shift at least some of that Arena-related cost to other taxing agencies.
As for “the success of Old Town” I would note that these are other TIFs that are not paying their way.
Successful TIFs are those that are primarily private-driven. A good example is Central/Hillside; I expect Ken-Mar will be similar. In these cases the public portion acts as a catalyst; in these others (Old Town, WaterWalk, Arena) public money has predomiated.
“Does the creation of a commission and a cost-benefit analysis accomplish that?”
I believe that is an excellent start. I would only add that I would set some type of “not-to-exceed” financial number on the City Council and if that was to be exceeded it needed to be on the ballot.
What is wrong with letting individual actors in the free-market sort out the winners and losers? Why do governments always feel the need to take from some and give to others?
It isn’t a given that development anywhere “needs” to be a public-private partnership. Governments should get out of the way and let the market work.
I’d like to see a required ration of private:public. I think when you look at the ones I mentioned above you will see that the ‘good’ ones had a large ratio; the ‘not-so-good’ ones a low ratio.
What it does it helps pay for the public access improvements in the area. They are not free give-a-ways to developers.
What the City wants to do is redo the streets (converting some of the one-ways to two-way, sidewalks, street lighting, public parking, tear down blighted and abandon buildings, landscaping and etc. This take a considerable amount of money to do, and what the TIF does it helps pay for that cost by the property tax collected in that district.
The county and the school district wouldn’t get their take from the area until it was repaid, and that is the ONLY draw back. It is intra-governmental fighting over who gets to keep the tax dollars for their coffers.
I think that TIF’s are a very good thing. It gets things done.
I agree that they can be good things when used properly. However, when used to pay for things that wuld normally be paid for by the developers (e.g. parking) then I wonder if they are going too far. Even with streets etc – I am paying for the streets in my development myself – while still paying property taxes. An alternative to a TIF in such cases might be a benefit district.
I favor TIFs in places like KenMar and Central/hillside. In these developments we also have substantial private investment – the TIF is a catalyst. However, in some others the magnitude of public investment is just too large – and these are the ones having problems paying off their bonds.
My favorite sports bar – Players – had to pay for the parking lot I use when I go there to watch a ball game. Why should their competition (Heros, Oscars) have their parking funded through tax dollars?
ictBest and bth make precise and accurate points, with the latter pointing out accurately how TIFs can stray from their intended purpose.
As for the free market point above, I think history is pretty clear: Downtown didn’t redevelop at all. It deteriorated, and a deteriorating downtown benefits no one. I don’t agree – at all – that the public has no proper role in development.
I agree with ictBest – TIFs are miscast as a government giveaway. As I may not have been clear enough earlier, they are a tax revenue deferral that’s a bet on the part of governments in the success of a redevelopment district. That would be why it’s essential, I think, for governments to remain vigilant on projects after they grant a TIF.
All the politicians in Congress from 1994 who voted to kill heath care (with nothing proposed in its stead) should be made to wear a scarlet “H” for “hypocrite” on their Brooks Brothers suits and Ferragamo loafers.
We should celebrate National Aviation Day every day here in Wichita. If it wasn’t for the airplane business, Wichita would be just another nice small town on the prairie.
I think there can be another role for local government here – assembling small parcels for re-development. There is a national brogram called ‘brownfields’ that relates to this since in many cases there are also environmental issues to be considered. This also brings in another can of worms – eminent domain. While I instinctively tend to oppose eminent domain there are exceptions. One might be in a situation where many parcels have been assembled via negotiation but a couple of small pieces remain. In some cases, in fact, a fractional ownership might exist where the owner cannot even be found or things are tied up in probate etc. So, some mechanism to assemble these needs to exist.
Some years ago I discussed this issue with an attorney who specialized in fighting eminent domain matters. Even he agreed that there is a place for its use.
It is so easy to go out in the country and buy a Section of land from a farmer. It can be MUCH harder to do the same in a City with a hundred owners. Add environmental due diligence issues and a lot of developers will just walk away. So, the need for mechanisms.
Or leased, as the ground under the SC Telcom building was prior to its acquisition by the Minnesota Guys. Good point.
There’s a happy medium that can and should be reached here, and I think the Kansas City model is a start – with citizen and elected oversight. I’m inclined to agree that the city’s been a little too anxious to partner with developers without dealing their constituents in on the decision. It’s just hard for me to find fault with their willingness to buy into these deals.
The danger still falls, I think, in the short-sightedness of the “no taxes, no way” attitude. Would Oklahoma City’s Bricktown have become an entertainment mecca without a publicly-voted bond issue? The answer is a categorical no, but maybe we can learn something from the approach.
Without Bricktown, though, Oklahoma City doesn’t become a major league sports city.
On eminent domain – it is interesting that my conversation with the attorney was with one who was pretty much a ‘hawk’ on private property rights. However he agreed that there must be exceptions.
Professor Jabara is indeed a great man and a kind person. I often see him in the grocery store, on Sunday mornings after first service, purchasing groceries for a friend.
I’m just happy it’s finally decided, and actually pleased it’s going in at exit 33. I thought aesthetically it was the nicer proposal.
But I’m not a big fan because I have never believed that a casino is the economic “cure-all” that supporters and many politicians believe. The sooner one is built the sooner we’ll know I guess!
For the people of Wellington, I’m sorry. To quote Shelly Hansel: “It sucks. It absolutely sucks…”
I would encourage people to check out http://www.relayhealth.com This company has already established coverage from several Health Plan carriers. They also give the patient the ability to pay for a online consultation out of pocket if their insurance plan doesn’t cover it. My doctor uses it and my kid’s pediatrician uses it.
Given the fact that they increase health insurance costs it makes a certain amount of sense to charge them. As long as there is a ‘way out’ for the worker (as seems to be the case here) then it just might be a good idea.
In early 2004 I was told that due to the health problems of one employee (heart condition) I could have reduced the individual employee premiums by over $125.00 each by eliminating that one employee. We had 13 employees at the time. That is not a solution to rising health care costs.
How do you handle “obese” health care issues like depression, diabetes, lupus? Because someone is overweight thay should not be discriminated against, for any reason. They can either do the job or they can’t. That is the employer’s responsibility to make that decision.
This “slippery slope” needs to be stopped immediately. We may be only a few years away from genetic markers that if we continue down this path of judge and jury will make health care coverage a true thing of the past for many individuals.
Is it just too simple to allow small business to pool companies to decrease insurance premiums?
Jerry – I think this answers at least some of your concerns:
“employees will have a year to see a doctor at no cost, enroll in a wellness program, or take steps on their own to improve their health. If they show progress in a follow-up screening, they won’t be charged”
Thank you for the response but I am still not in favor of it. Let’s say that there is a race of people that have a much higher risk of liver disease than another. Should they be subjected to higher insurance rates? Should they be denied insurance altogether? Should they be denied employment?
Interesting that Wichita Downtown Development Corporation’s former leader, Ed Wolverton, and the holdover Sedgwick County Commissioners, Winters, Norton and Unruh, were the chief culprits along with some fellow travelers, in bringing us their vaunted $500,000,000.13 ice hockey downtown arena that now threatens everything good we wanted for Wichita.
They should have listened to the public when the arena idea first lifted its head but they thought they knew best what was good for the people of Wichita and Sedgwick County.
I suspect Wichita is going to have to find some alternative use for the white elephant arena to try to offset the huge operational expenses that will soon arrive when the arena opens.
So Jeffrey Fluhr I hope this is more than just a stepping stone job for you like it has been for all the other out of town “hired gun bureaucrats” who have come to Wichita. They all come offering new band uniforms but like the MUSIC MAN SHOW, after they take the money, the band uniforms never seem to arrive.
Slippery slope – agreed. And the devil is in the details. BUT – if it is the sort of thing that can be addressed as indicated and IF not punitive it might not be a bad thing.
Interesting question. I, for one, would happily discuss ideas with him. I have supported some things and opposed others. I have voted for school bonds and, based on what I understand, support KenMar and Central/Hillside TIFs. I helped establish the ‘reverse’ TIF that supported so much downtown by dealing with the Gilbert/Mosley pollution.
I opposed WaterWalk from the start. I gave detailed comments to City Council. My comments were deleted from the minutes with just a statement ‘bth spoke against the project.’ I don’t think that is the way to “invigorate a dialogue”
Fluhr has a long track record of trying to incorporate all opinions – not just favorable ones – in downtown planning. Hopefully, both proponents and opponents of the current downtown redevelopment strategy will take the time to talk – and listen – to him.
There are two camps of the so called “anit-tax” crowd. One group, such as Karl Peterjohn and a few others actually have respectable and philosophical standings behind their quest behind low taxes and reliance on privatization. These are people who really know their stuff, research and gather data and present it for case of debate.
The others, a very small group, have a vindictive nature behind their stance. Not only do they present false and nonfactual information, but they have no relevance to the debate for the future of downtown or our city. Basically squatters coming in from another part of the state and bringing their baggage of negativity with them. JWink is one of those. So I seriously doubt that Fluhr will ever give the time of day to the JWinks, because its a waste of time and unproductive.
bth and Bill Wilson are the exceptional and intelligent members of our community and rightly deserve to have their voices heard on the direction of downtown and the city of Wichita.
ictbest/Joe: Now that Ed Wolverton is long gone and Tom Winters will soon be gone, I presume you are now the de facto spokesman for the final two holdover Sedgwick county commissioners who pushed for the downtown white elephant arena, Tim Norton and Dave Unruh. Do they write your comments for you?
Somewhere you said renovating the Kansas Coliseum would have been paid for with bond financing. WRONG! WRONG AGAIN. You are echoing the BIG LIES previously told by the pro-arena people.
Most likely the $60 million dollars or so of Kansas Coliseum costs would have been paid with a sales tax just like the super expensive 1/2 billion dollar downtown arena. If we had done that, perhaps Wink Hartman and his staff would have contracted to operate the renovated Kansas Coliseum. I have been told that renovation would have made the Kansas Coliseum a sparkling jewell for southern Kansas, a beautiful arena with even more parking, more ingress and egress, more restrooms, wider corridors, etc.
It would be connected to the now closed dog racing track property for uses not even considered so far.
And we wouldn’t have needed some 90 additional police officers downtown to protect pedestrians as they walk up alleys, down dark streets, through railroad underpasses to and from the downtown arena.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE COULD HAVE USED THE REMAINING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO RESTORE DOWNTOWN WICHITA INTO A SPARKLING JEWELL THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DESTINATION FOR PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Whatever the past the Arene is a reality. I hope those behind it can make it work. BUT – they need to recognize that it passed only narrowly and that many who voted ‘Yea’ have said they would now vote ‘Nay’.
The Arena has, in many ways, poisoned the well. It was one of the factor in the failure of the Casino vote. Many of the Arena backers were involved with the Casino push and the growing distrust of them translated into ‘No’ votes. While these were not the only votes against the Casino (obviously the ‘moral objectors’ were important) they provided the margin. That is how an initial 70% approval for the Casino turned into a 45% defeat – and it was predicted in detail.
Now we face a school bond issue which I consider important to see passed. Unfortunately it, too, shares high-profile backers with the Arena. I fear that this will bring it down. I sincerely hope I am wrong on this – 259 schools direly need the money.
Like Fahnestock I live outside of 259. However I work and shop inside the districtso the tax increase will pass on to me just like it will to Fahnestock. If I lived there I would vote for it just as I have voted for ours in 265. Let’s hope it passes.
“That group, he said, might have ideas to help further the city’s growth plans”
He better realize that there is no such thing as “That group” – there are many DIFFERENT groups and individuals who have questioned various public spending projects. Looking at the Arena TIF proposal it was the County Commission (Arena SUPPORTERS) who questioned its wisdom.
The key to obtaining approval for projects will be coalition-building. This must be done if we are going to have the support for downtown that Brewer and others want. And they have failed miserably in building such a coalition.
bth, I could not agree more. Coalition-building is a clear path to broader public confidence. We tend to struggle in Wichita bringing together diverse interests to bring a coalition, largely because we struggle shaping a message.
I’m not an arena opponent; quite the contrary, I think that the selection of SMG as a manager is a guarantee that we’ll be pleasantly surprised at its success. And I think the public dialogue on the arena project was better than we’re accustomed to in Wichita.
With that said, though, Fluhr brings a breath of fresh air to a city that tends to force-feed major economic decisions to the populace. I think it can be argued that some of today’s anti-tax sentiment is fueled by that force-feeding.
Again, I think there’s a place for a public-private partnership in the economic redevelopment of downtown, and in Wichita’s economic development as a whole. Rejecting such out-of-hand is both short-sighted and extremely dangerous to Wichita’s future. If you’re upset over government’s role in the new Cessna plant or in the construction of the Jabara tech ed center, then you need to closely examine the alternative: The departure from Wichita of our plane makers.
It must be a transparent partnership, though, and it must be a partnership formed out of community dialogue. If city and county government, and Fluhr, fail at that, there’s a collision coming down the road that fails all of us.
The President of the U.S. should force the resignation of the presidents of the various American oil companies because they are obviously playing the old shell game with prices of gasoline to American consumers. It’s not up to the gasoline companies to keep gasoline prices high and thereby making obscene profits.
Keeping gasoline prices high might have social value such as 1) less green house gas pollution, 2) less wear and tear on highways and roadways, 3) less traffic congestion, 4) less importation of foreign automobiles, 5) higher birth rates (I just threw that in to see if you were paying attention). IF needed, intentional rationing of gasoline should be done by, I hate to say it, government, not by the gasoline production and marketing companies.
I think the next 18 months will be real interesting. The Arena opening in early 2010 will say a lot and a lot will be riding on a strong opening act. Let’s hope SMG gets something good.
A sort of aside – something I have noticed that bugs me a bit. C-II has numerous sellouts – routinely brings in about 2000 or so people. However, I don’t see many reastuarants within walking distance – pretty much only the struggling Broadview. Any thoughts why?
We should all remember that Peterjohn will not necessarily be walking into that Commission seat. He has a credible opponent in Marcey Gregory, Mayor of Goddard. If the voters want to move Wichita forward, she will win. If they want to stand still with a guy who’s been nothing but a “no” vote for lots of things (like bth says, some of the things he’s against have been valuable) then so be it. But we are at a critical point on many issues — downtown redevelopment included — and it seems to me we need to elect reasonable people to balance the need for fiscal accountability with growing this community. Fluhr brings us a real opportunity to come together and discuss valuable options — I, for one hope that he’ll be talking with Gregory as an elected official on the Commission and not Peterjohn.
Absolutely right, Bill. I ran to the pumps on Saturday ahead of Gustav’s landfall because an analyst on a cable news channel predicted $5 gas if infrastructure in the gulf was severely damaged or pulled offline for a substantial period of time. Sounded reasonable, I thought, considering the spike in the price of gas following Katrina. But since I filled up the price of gas fell two cents at the station to which I went. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Your post brings up two questions: What is the current barrel price down to and what was the national average per gallon of gas the last time the barrel price was at this point? Without seeing the numbers, how come the price at the pump isn’t retreating as fast as it shot up?
Early last week I filled up for $3.38 and, at the time, thought it was a heckuva deal. Sad, isn’t it?
Yes, lets hope no more in Kansas go belly up. My sister had deposits in the Alpharetta Bank that failed, but fortunately, for her the deposits will be O.K. since the other bank took them over.
It’s difficult to follow the moving target rationales for the price of gasoline at the pump – but I do recall that it wasn’t long ago we were told at both the governmental and industry level that we had crossed the point of no return on demand over supply and would never see gas fall again.
And yet, two months later, here we are.
I don’t profess to be an expert, but it appears clear to me that unregulated oil speculators are the culprit for the run-up, with decreasing demand the influence that has cut them off at the pass.
So personally, as we move into the home stretch of the presidential campaign, I’d like to know why speculators have been allowed an unregulated frontal assault on the U.S. economy.
Arena neighborhood development is a curious animal. I believe it’s clearly been hurt by the lack of a leader at City Hall and in the WDDC office. Those positions both will be filled.
And I hear rumblings that the state’s work release center has been a significant wet blanket in early efforts to move property around the arena.
Also note that Marcey Gregory is a business owner. So, she understands what it takes to run a business in the downtown area. I don’t know that Peterjohn has even had a real private-sector job; much less run a business.
Bill – the area I am talking about is not near the Arena but near C-II. We have had a successful venue there (albeit smaller scale) but haev not seen ancillary development. With ROUTINE 2000 attendence one would think there would be some such development.
I thought there was a direct correlation between the SEC banning “naked shorting” and the drop in oil prices, along with the perceived increase in performance at financial institutions.
I’m not smart enough to explain why. Just an observation.
I’m not sure that’s enough irregular attendance to pull that off, bth, given the business models that a handful of local restaurateurs I know operate under.
Bill – you may be correct. However, I would note that, unlike the arena, C-II pulls 2000+ weekly or better. Thus my claim that 300,000 is more than 300,000: 1500*200 nights (C-II) has much more impact than 15,000*20 nights (Arena – THEY HOPE).
In other words – if irregular attendence cannot support ancillary business when it is weekly then how can monthly (at best) crowds do the same?
MTW alone fills C-II about 30 times a season. Add WGO, Symphony, etc and there should be a fairly constant stream. And, I would add, an affluent demographic.
And while I’m at it, another beef directed at our corporate sources:
If I need to talk to you, I need to talk to you today. I need a telephone number. I don’t need a gigantic e-mail form you may or may not see soon.
It makes me feel old, growing up in an era when you could pick up the phone and call anyone – then fast-forwarding to today where companies do EVERYTHING in their powers to avoid you, from pre-recorded “press one for” threads to these idiotic e-mail forms that are designed specifically to avoid people.
The doctors and insurers aren’t the only problem. The problem is the government that mandates coverages for lifestyle choices, such as drugs, alcohol, smoking, and obesity, as well as the “get happy” society that abuses the mental and nervous coverage mandates.
The solution isn’t the government, because they take a solution and create a problem. Doctors are providers, and should be removed from the financing of health care (insurance). The best solutions I’ve seen are where private companies opt out of state mandates for group insurance and provide coverage through a self-funded plan.
One employer, with over 6,000 employees nationwide, reported 0.06% in total plan cost inflation over 6 years, without lowering benefits, and without increasing employee cost. That’s 0.01% inflation per year.
How? They canceled their group plan, with it’s many state mandates, and created a self-funded trust with strict controls over behaviors and choices that adversely affect health and job performance.
First, they mandated participation in the wellness program. Those that refused to participate found other employment.
Second, they mandated smoking cessation. Those that want to smoke found employment elsewhere.
Third, those who were obese were required to lose weight, maintain proper BMI, or find other employment.
Fourth, they mandated the EAP, or Employee Assistance Program, be the gatekeeper for any and all treatment for mental and nervous disorders. These plans cost about $2 per month, and include 6 visits to a mental health professional with no co-pay. This move eliminated all coverage for “get happy” pills being prescribed by family physicians who are generally not qualified to diagnose or treat for mental health. With the rare exception of an organic problem where medicine is necessary, ALL people who wanted “get happy” pills had to get therapy to develop coping skills and learn how to deal with the stressors in life. If someone was addicted to a psychotropic/psychoactive drug for a non-organic mental/nervous issue, then they would have to pay 100% of the cost if the Rx was prescribed by a family doctor, if they didn’t seek therapy. Over 90% of claims for these drugs dried up virtually over night.
End result: Productivity is up, absenteeism is down, presenteeism is down, and that all translates to an improved bottom line while enabling this company to compete in a global marketplace.
The solutions to fix health care financing already exist. All we need is to kick the government out of the patient room, and kick the government out of the business decision process at private employers, and we can all enjoy the best care without turning to failed ideologies like socialism and communism.
When I was accepted into the plumbers union 15 years ago I could not stand to take the 15 minute break in the morning and afternoon. But I now have experienced that the break allows a person to recover and do better work more efficiently. We get the same amount of work done in the same or less time. And less rework and be more refreshed after a days work.
What if my crew of prozac popping fat smokers out-perform the workers who are deemed “healthy”?
I’m not sure you can reform the health care industry without reforming government first. With proper reform employees health patterns would fall in line.
Also, I find the claim that this enabled the company to compete in a global marketplace highly dubious.
It was a tongue-in-cheek response to a post I believe is way off the mark. When employers try to force employees to change their personal behavioral habits yes, there may be a bit of success. But the ones that truly win are the lawyers leading the litigation between the employees and employers.
Maybe the answer to the question “Who screwed up our health care system-doctors or insurance carriers?” is neither. How about lawyers and the court system.
So long as we failed to recognized that Health Insurance is really Health Coverage.
Insurance is spreading the risk for a low probability event. What is being offered is a Health Coverage policy. Is it the best way to facilitate health care?
I’m not for sure. But I think if we just went back, before the HMO’s and the legislative forced health coverage on insurance policies, we can see a drastic reduction in health insurance.
Basically, Health Insurance is for those times when there is an accident or chronic care. The rest of the cost, routine doctor visits, pharma pills (not related to chronic health problems), broken bones, test and etc. Then we can see the market place react, such as it is doing now in $4 prescriptions, minute clinics in Walgreens and etc. These are great solutions to the rising cost of medical health needs.
As far as people who cannot afford it? Their is medicaid and charity clinics and hospitals across the country.
We are going to have to get rid of the NIMBY fear that everybody has, and move forward on bridge energies. Natural Gas for transportation, nuclear and clean coal.
The Wichita area needs to rid itself from Westar also. A nuclear plant outside the Wichita area to service the needs of S.C. Kansas and ran by another company, other than Westar…maybe ran by the county or city (remember the coal gasification plant in the 1970’s?) much like many communities do.
I’m not bagging on Westar for rake hikes or anything like that. Nothing against them, but I know that Westar (former mayor Bob Knight knew this too) that they do not have the interest of S.C. Kansas in mind. Their focus is primarily to the N.E. Kansas area.
I don’t know that a city-owned nuclear plant makes sense at this time. The capital costs are just too high. However, a variety of “community wind” might make sense. K-State has been working on the structure for wind turbines that would be owned BY the community FOR the community. This could feed a local grid. A MSW incinerator can also feed the local grid.
I would then look to partner with Westar for nuclear power. I think that nuclear is likely to be more regional than local.
One point in favor of your idea Joe is the new small ‘microsphere’ design that is being developed for nuclear power. I’m not sure of the current state of development but they are to be smaller and thus might make sense for local use.
Joe – even better – for maintainence drugs it’s 10 bucks for three months at Dillons.
Where I work they are starting to implement wellness programs I think companies are beginning to realize that our desk-bound workforce is suffering health impacts as a result. Add to that infinite coffee drinking and sugar/salt. I have suggested that alongside the junk in the break room they have apples, oranges, V-8, etc. I would bet the cost would be more than offset by savings in health costs and in improved producivity.
It might also be useful to rotate assignments so we get up and walk around – carrying stuff etc. Especially if we can get outside a bit.
I think the point is that ‘coverage’ is for routine care and ‘insurance’ is for accidents and illnesses. I would disagree with Joe about broken bones – I’d put those in the insurance basket.
I’m beginning to like the combination high deductable/HSA system although there are times it seems that you have to be an accountant to keep everything straight.
Boo-hoo Dillards. I went there with my two children on Labor Day because I wanted to get each of them a pair of Merrell shoes for school. After waiting for a salesperson to come help up for over 15 minutes in the children’s shoe department, I wrote down the styles and sizes we needed and went home and ordered them from zappos.com… they arrived the next day.
Do doctors/hospitals give you the “insurance rate” when you have a HSA? My son had pediatric hernia surgery last month and the total bill from the hospital/surgeons was $8500. Insurance allowed $3500 and the rest was written off.
Just as they say, “all politics is local” same can be said about the economy.
But it is a major concern. 6.1% is the measurable unemployment. There are plenty of people dropping of the unemployment stats that are still unemployed.
I also heard that SSDI applicants are increasing 2.5 million people a year. The backlog is so long for evaluating cases of disability, that SSA is requesting millions from the Congress to hire thousands of new case judges to hear SSDI claims.
So you can put at least 2.5 million needing SSDI each year, which contributes to unemployment too.
The good thing is that we don’t have it as bad as Europe, but the economy is a wave. So long as Wichita is in good shape, I think we will be fine.
“The good thing is that we don’t have it as bad as Europe”
Actually we do not know that. Their numbers look higher but that is because they count everyone who is out of work. If used their statistical methodology our unemployment rate would be about 7.5-8%
The best salespeople for Wichita are those us us who came from elsewhere. I have lived in BOTH of the regions represented by Burkel’s Medical Marketing & Media (as wlll as other regions); I choose to live in Wichita.
Doctors or health insurance companies? If those are the only alternatives, I choose both.
But where are politicians? Lobbyists? Big Pharma?And what about patients who don’t take care of themselves? Hospitals that don’t take care of their patients?
Or the arrogance of a country that thinks it knows all the answers when its people don’t even know the questions.
Add all that into the equation, and you’ve got a good recipe for a system that’s FUBAR.
Before 1943 few in this country had any form of health insurance. If they did, they called it hospitalization, because it only helped with unexpected expenses in a catastrophic situation at a hospital.
The premiums were very cheap. It didn’t cover doctor visits, prescriptions, maternity, or many other conditions that are now expected to be covered by health insurance.
Most people made every effort to stay healthy and tried to set aside funds in the budget in case a family member needed medical care. They had a friendly relationship with their local physician.
In the 1950’s my father was a car mechanic and traded services with our doctor in case he needed to treat one of our family members.
We have now become a nation of unhealthy people who see no direct correlation to our life style choices and our wallet. We expect the top of the line care and want someone else to pay for it.
We want the insurance company to accept everyone and not base premiums on potential risk because that isn’t fair. Then we wonder why premiums are so high and many people choose not to have insurance until they have a health issue.
We expect our employer or the government to pay our premiums to an insurance company who should then pay for any conceivable claim we have. Then we wonder why we haven’t had a raise in three years, and complain about how much is withheld in taxes from our paycheck.
Before more people develop uninsurable conditions, maybe we should look at an alternative.
What if we all purchased our own plan like we do our car and home owners insurance? What if it had nothing to do with our employer. (For over 50% of employees of small businesses this is reality.)
Many of them have already purchased a private health plan.
They now realize this:
1) The healthier you are when purchasing, the lower the rate. Once you have a policy, the carrier cannot raise your rate or drop you based upon your claims (Lesson:apply while you are healthy)
2) If you stop smoking, and lower your weight to within a normal BMI, you can save between 30%-70% on the premium (Lesson: make healthy choices and save)
3)The younger you are, the lower the premium (Lesson: since the majority of the uninsured are young and healthy, most could afford a policy)My 26 year old pays $37 a month for 5 million dollars of coverage.
4)The higher the deductible, the lower the premium. An HSA qualified plan limits your out of pocket. (Lesson: pick the low premium, budget for the small things and use your insurance plan to protect from the catastrophic)
5)Aprivate plan is truly portable. (Lesson: you never have to consider a health plan when considering a career.)
6)Nearly all carriers now offer individual policies giving more choice to the consumer.
7)Most states have a high risk pool for those whose health issues prevent them from purchasing a private plan.
Maybe so many employers not offering health insurance has a silver lining. People have found a better alternative.
DAN LOVING — MY QUESTION FOR MR. T. BOONE PICKENS:
I believe your proposal is to assemble a land easement or pathway across Texas and Oklahoma towards southwestern Kansas on which to build a line of wind energy windmills and electrical power transmission lines.
Is this actually a subterfuge to build an underground pipeline in the easement to drain the Ogallala deep underground water aquifers under Kansas and Oklahoma south to Texas to sell the water to the large metropolitan areas in Texas and Mexico that desperately need water?
I presume you know this would lead to destroying our relatively pure Ogallala underground water sources in Kansas and Oklahoma that have very little ability to recharge themselves.
I would hope the oil industry is doing well considering they have us over the barrel (and that’s putting it mildly) with $3 to $4 gas everywhere in the country. But what’s disturbing is that you’re saying the price gouging is justified to keep our “strong oil, ag and aircraft sectors” going.
If the press would do its job and hold accountable those who’ve been taking advantage of the American public we might not be in the mess we’re in.
Ask him to compare the technical difficulty of his plan compared to putting man on the moon with early 60s technology. Note that we succeeded in realizing JFK’s dream.
He pretty much hit my point. We HAVE all the technology today to accomplish his plan and more. Thus it is a straight shot. Compare that to the situation when JFK said we would go to the moon. That was a six-ball three-bank combo! I remember that – watching our rockets blow up on the launch pad at Canaveral and this guy says WHAT? To the moon? HE’S CRAZY!!!!! And we did it.
If America commits to energy independence we can do it by 2015. As a scientist myself I know the technology is there – unlike when JFK challenged us. All we have to do is DO IT!
While I think it is highly admirable what Pickens is doing, I would simply prefer nuclear power to wind power. I do not see an adequate ROI on wind power at this time and I have seen the large wind farms in California and found them visually awful.
I would personally like to see a handful of the smaller reactors built in western Ks. I think it would create many jobs and allow the state to sell the excess energy to neighboring states while lowering our energy costs (and taxes overall).
Combined with our vast natural gas fields this would allow Kansas to be a true energy leader.
It might not be cost effective to build new nuclear power plants, because of the enormous cost involved and the taxpayers footing the bill for the waste (half the DOE budget is on monitoring and storing nuke waste.)
Nuke plants won’t work in western Kansas either, because of the water supply issue.
But a great plan would be to expand and update current nuclear sites. Basically all current nuke plants have the capability to expand and to output 2 to 3 times their electric generation capacity. The logistics, site permits and staff are all there.
Cost shifting to employees is effective to the extent that it makes them more mindful of how much money they spend – e.g. thinking twice about going to the ER for something that can probably wait or be handled at an urgent care or doctors office the next day.
The limits are quickly reached though in terms of how much information and “health literacy” the average person has to be able to make good decisions about health care spending.
While shifting costs to the “users” of health care is necessary to get more accountability in the system, lets not forget that this does not directly address the “cost” of health care.
I think the compact ones use less water. In afct, I suspect that with some real good engineering they might be able to be designed with no ‘disposable’ water use. Think a car radiator that just transferes the heat to the air.
I have been say this for months. Now is the time to start filing charges and naming names. This way everyone who had to pay outrages gasoline prices will know just who is responsible.
“Perhaps they fear retaliation?”
Hmm…company hires you to do a job, you choose NOT to do a job to make them give you more money to do that job, and repeat this process every 3-4 years or so…why would the company be upset?
Maybe Congress should use this method when they vote themselves a pay raise — just vote under an assumed name.
With the announcement that it’s “extreme thrill rides only” and kids and families aren’t being marketed to or even welcome, I predict a quick closing next summer. And entertainment dollars will continue to flow up and down the turnpike to destinations that WANT families.
Bring back Joyland…
It’s typical. Blame management for everything. I understand. If not, then I guess the thugs with the concert shoes and the sledge hammer come out and play.
Podunk, you’re misreading the story. There’s no “only” in extreme thrill rides. Those will be the emphasis, because no park survives without appealing to young adults. However, there will be other rides not dissimilar to the rides Thomas Etheredge put in the original park.
Could the flooding happening in NW Wichita, in areas I’ve never seen flood like this, be a direct result of filling in Cadillac Lake and building a Lowe’s?
Jerry – not that project specifically but our overall policies allowing filling in the floodplain is making things progressively worse. I would note that KDOT’s plan for Kellogg through Goddard will make it even worse.
When the assisted living facility next to Dillons at Central/Maize was built I was the lone dissenter on CPO. My reason: likelihood of flood. In 1998 it was evacuated by boat. I wonder if they have evacuated yet today?
This mess CAN be solved; but not by continuing to make it worse by filling in more floodplain.
I couldn’t agree more. I had seen flooding at the “usual suspects” like Central/Maize and along the Cowskin. I was truly shocked to see the amount of water at 21st/Maize and Ridge Road around Reflection Ridge. With losing Cadillac Lake, the trashing of the Ridge Road area between 29th and 37th St. N. and additional acreage of parking lots it appears the flooding concerns have moved north.
jerry – as long as the developers get everything they want this will only get worse. All this professional licensed geologist can do is watch. And periodically say “I told you so”.
Bill, I appreciate your enthusiasm for debunking all the myths surrounding the surge in gasoline prices we’ve seen over the past several months. But how about an in-depth investigative piece or series on it instead of small posts on an obscure blog? The whole reason the oil prices have spiked is because the players in the game have been allowed to get away with it. Now that we’re on to them, the prices still aren’t coming down near as fast as they went up. If it’s not one excuse, it’s another. Journalists, historically, have been the voice for the voiceless but I’m guessing the deafening silence comes from the fear of losing one’s job in the next round of newsroom downsizing. Why won’t the press stand up to big oil instead of merely reporting the current price of gas? Do reporters in the newsroom – not just The Eagle but all around the country – no longer feel an obligation to their readers to dig for the truth?
Right, because what’s wrong with that? It would be laughable, if it weren’t so true, that many in this country can’t afford to be sick. I’m not suggesting that doctors aren’t worth what they’re paid. But it’s inexcusable that walk-in clinics in Walgreens is this country’s answer to affordable health care.
I think a lot of people go into nursing because they want to help people. In order to do a better job of that they need better conditions – not just more money.
There is also a question of malpractice. If overwork leads to mistakes a nurse might be lieble.
Duh! More pay is great, but if a nurse isn’t happy or satisfied with his/her job, they’ll move on if they can. Personally, I took a pay cut for better hours and a better schedule. I have much less stress now, and more control over what I do. I still work occasionally at my old job and enjoy doing “hospital” things again, but after every shift I’m thankful for my new job and the better situation I have.
There were some days at the hospital when I was “earning” $35-40 an hour because of differentials, holidays, etc; but I usually still felt underpaid because of all the stress, long days, physical labor, paperwork, and dealing with difficult doctors, patients, and families.
Health care institutions have spent millions to figure out how to attract and keep happy, competent nurses. The answer doesn’t lie completely in bonuses and monetary incentives. Nurses usually want to feel that what they do is making a positive difference for someone, and that their job has meaning, value, and purpose. Fostering an institutional culture where the nurse has value and respect beyond a warm body with a license is very difficult to do. It’s not something you can just throw money at to accomplish.
Reducing paperwork is great, but extremely difficult to do in today’s legal world. Reducing caseload is very important for happy nurses and happy patients. In the end, it is a combination of things that will make for satisfied nurses and other health care professionals, as well as better health care for patients. If the health care industry can’t make some progress in these areas, they will continue to have problems with staffing.
Not yet, but at least they’re talking to us… which is a lot more than you can say about Cox.
The evildoers want $70,000 a month to put the five stations not on cable on cable… and they don’t charge the others.
Uverse is only an option if AT&T’s strung fiber-optic cable in your neighborhood. They haven’t in my neighborhood and evidently have no intention to any time in the near future. But they WILL come and bolt a dish to my house and sell me Dish Network programming.
And really…who WANTS to watch KU beat up Sam Houston? The same people who want to watch the basketball team beat The Blessed Little Sisters of the Poor U?
bw – the Eagle carries the TV listings for Cox but not for the broadcast stations. I would guess that many Wichitans don’t even know these stations exist.
And, the TV editors don’t mention anything about (a) their existence or (b) the fact that Cox would charge a prohibitive amount to carry them.
Who cares about these so called broadcast channels??? They are not ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX. They are low power stations, nothing to get excited about. Complain about somthing that matters people.
The guys on the Gameplan will try anything to get some exposure, like trying to bring back Shocker Football.
I’m so ready to kick Cox out and get U-Verse. But as podunkboy has stated, they have yet to provide it in my area and there is no timetable when they will. I hope it’s soon.
Whatever happened to the Wichita City Paper?
Could it be that mr controversy ran it into the ground?
So, a worker punked a supervisor and used you as a tool. Tough.
If you’re going to hold yourself out as a journalist, don’t whine when you have to make a correction to an article you decided to print without a proper investigation.
Also, if you’re assigned to this story and you don’t already know why the people are on strike, well, then you need to educate yourself.
I don’t know what is reality any more. Where can an individual turn to get a straight answer on this crisis? Every talking head is arguing the same incessant rant on McCain vs. Obama. We are 4 1/2 months from one of them taking office and we will probably be in the Great Depression Part Deux by then.
This is a huge story and the media is on the sidelines watching it go by. Newspapers used to be a “Beacon” for the underrepresented. They went after the TRUTH regardless of political affiliation.
The Democrats, Republicans, Independents, SEC and Federal Reserve need to be ripped to shreds over this fiasco. People need to be held accountable. These “Masters of the Universe” need their corrupt behavior exposed to every person available with the same fervor as Britney Spears entering a mental health clinic. Camp out on their yards. Hassle them at lunch. Stalk them.
Where’s Tiahrt? Roberts? Moran? Brownback?
If the newspaper wants to survive and even flourish it needs to LEAD. Less opinion and more fact. Inform us. Educate us. Arm us.
First of all I have been a broker for 25 years. There are several things that are at play in the current market. Including some not so savory SEC practices. Until recently you had to borrow stock from someone else at the firm or the firm had to have it in inventory before you could sell short. Selling short is selling stock you don’t own in hopes of buying it back at a lower price and make a profit. The SEC director suspended that rule sometime in the recent past. He also suspended the rule that you could only sell short after an uptick. Which meant you had to wait until the stock was actually going up before you could sell short. This has allowed organizations to pick a company and run it down for no apparent reason. AIG would have been fine if it could have sold some of its held stock to cover their short term cash flow problems. The company was well capitalized with great assets but someone has attacked the company. Other similar attacks are being discovered in the financial sector.
I believe there are billionaires who want Obama to win this election and will do virtually anything to make the markets look as bad as possible so he gets elected. You may ask wouldn’t that be easy to discover? The answer is no because they are using Hedge Funds to do the dirty work. For more information on my theory Google George Soros’ Quantum Fund
Hedge Fund – Definition
A fund, usually used by wealthy individuals and institutions, which is allowed to use aggressive strategies that are unavailable to mutual funds, including selling short, leverage, program trading, swaps, arbitrage, and derivatives. Hedge funds are exempt from many of the rules and regulations governing other mutual funds, which allows them to accomplish aggressive investing goals. They are restricted by law to no more than 100 investors per fund, and as a result most hedge funds set extremely high minimum investment amounts, ranging anywhere from $250,000 to over $1 million. As with traditional mutual funds, investors in hedge funds pay a management fee; however, hedge funds also collect a percentage of the profits (usually 20%).
Any way you slice it there are things going on that should not be. These hedge funds need to have more regulation and watching. Millionairs should have to follow the same rules ther rest of us have to. Other than that. The market fundementals are still reasonably good and eventually this will all go back to balance. I would expect some stabilization after the election but that actually means we have opportunities in the short term.
My personal experience with Cox is a double-edged sword: Their tech people are terrific. Very helpful.
And frankly, I’ve always found the local office to be pretty responsive.
On the other hand, I was pretty surprised by the curt response to the entrance of UVerse into the Wichita market – and I’m fairly surprised by the lack of response to the KU game Saturday night, neither coming from the Cox faces we’re familiar with in Wichita. Neither is reflective of how the Wichita office has responded to issues in the past.
The fact is: UVerse offers WAY more sports for the money than Cox. If Cox doesn’t address that, then I’m sure UVerse will gain as much market share from sports fanatics as their system will allow.
The Eagle’s coverage of this entire thing has been very one-sided. While this might be understandable given Boeing’s clout in Wichita it would be nice to see a bit more of the other side.
I bet the papers in Alabama have a VERY different take on this.
You also have to consider the cost of training all the Tanker Pilots for the Airbus Tanker, when the training for the Boeing Tanker would have been a lot cheaper and faster.
Another thing was that you would have to rebuild a lot of hangers, because many of them wouldn’t fit the Airbus Tanker.
Then there is replaceable parts, maintenance training, retrofitting all the jets with a another catch and delivery system to accept the Airbus model and on and on.
There is a lot of cost that goes beyond the tankers initial cost and payload capacity that the Pentagon also must look at.
Thank you, that information is quite helpful. As of this morning perhaps the run has bottomed. I certainly hope so.
My greatest concern was this reaching Goldman Sachs and in turn they were allowed to go belly up. They appear to be the last one standing relatively unphased (compared to the big picture). If they did go out of business, I think it may have been some of the darkest days in Wichita’s history. I may be wrong on that but that was my concern.
One of the more interesting articles on what’s happening in the financial industry was written by Don Bauder, of the San Diego Reader:
“One quadrillion. That’s 1,000,000,000,000,000 — one plus 15 zeroes, or one thousand trillion. It is incomprehensible. And that’s what’s terrifying. This summer, the Bank for International Settlements, the bank for the world’s central banks, estimated that the face value of derivatives floating around the world is $1.14 quadrillion. Derivatives are incredibly complex securities whose value is derived from some asset such as a bond, a stock, or a currency. They are used to bet on the weather and upcoming inflation, among many things. But derivatives aren’t really assets; they are crapshoots on the value of the underlying securities — a wager on another wager. They are based almost completely on borrowed money. And all too many are held by the nation’s largest banks and investment banks — yeah, one of those places where you may have parked your money.”
I’d like to see us diversify based upon the technology we have developed for aerospace. Composites and aerodynamics also apply to wind turbines. With wind energy being a wave of the future why not build the turbines here?
Another area is ground transportation. Lightweight but strong materials can be used to build cars, buses, trucks, trains, etc.
I believe Business Links is a fantastic idea, as an avid golfer I can really appreciate a little extra focus on Wichita’s golf scene. Tips from pros are always accepted on my part and I really like keeping up to date with when the next tournement will be. Thanks.
The latest proposal from our current insurance provider is an increase of almost 15%. This raises the monthly premium on families from roughly $930.00 per month to $1065.00 per month.
If we partake in an employee wellness program our increase is over 17%. That is not a typo.
Just watch – when a small number of banks have established their monopoly they will whine and complain about foreign competition when a foreign bank out-hustles them. Just like a certain aircraft company we all know …
What if these commodities were treated as a public utility? Price increases could only be implemented by a commission after approving an application to increase rates. No more profiteering speculators. No more spikes in prices of fuel oil, gasoline, or diesel for homes, businesses, cars, trucks, buses, planes, and trains.
Boeing Credit Union ATMs charge a $3 (!!!) fee to non-members. I haven’t seen one that high before. And since BoA charges me $2 to use a non-BoA ATM, that’s $5 I’m paying for the privilege of accessing my own money.
Is there a reason that businesses are tacking on all kinds of extra fees rather than increasing the base cost of their products? Why not make the pizza cost $2.50 more? It seems like the nickel-and-dime approach calls more attention to the increased overall cost.
Try at an amusement park. $9 ATM fee inside Universal Studios. This was about 10 years ago. And that didn’t include the fee that my bank was going to charge me for using an ATM outside of their network.
Whoa! Sounds like funny numbers to me. For every $5.00 six pack of beer I buy I will get back $1.00 from selling six cans? 12 cans? Still it’s an interesting enough question that I will try it.
The Eagle reported that there was going to be a delivery charge for pizza delivery from several companies. So we knew that. And aren’t you married to Joe Stumpe? Why are you getting pizza from someone else when you have Joe? HA.
I called a local recycling place, and they said you get something like 69 cents a pound for cans. Think they pay more where that was written? Anyway, it still might pay better than putting the money in your mattress.
Wichita’s economic outlook is fine, “As long as there are no shocks to the system.” Who is living in a dream world here. The storm clouds have been gathering for at least a year but no one had the guts to be first to yell: “the wolf is coming, the wolf is coming.”
Boeing might look fine to outsiders but evidently Boeing’s stockholders don’t agree. The price of Boeing stock has cut in half during the past twelve months.
While not directly related to Wichita, another stock I watch is Haliburton Oil company stock, a company heavily involved in Iraq and international oil production. It’s stock has dropped like a rock from about 50 to 21 during the past three months.
It’s only wishful thinking that Wichita’s overall economy, related as it is to the airplane manufacturing industry, is not tied to the national and world economy. It looks like we are in a dribble down economic situation, the domino effect, a house of paper.
Wichita business and citizens need to immediately go into a strong defensive position against the coming recession.
The hard hit industry is going to be ethanol. Just with the recent news with ICM and the largest Pratt, KS ethanol company going completely bankrupt today is a sign that the ethanol boom is over.
While this might not affect Wichita too much, it will affect the small rural towns around Wichita, and those people will be needing jobs. I can see the rural community migrating to Wichita for work, so we will need to prepare for a population boom in our area, for towns like Pratt that could be loosing half their population in the coming years as people leave that community to come to Wichita.
Pratt, the Aspen of Kansas, is doing just fine. Located on the rushing headwaters of the south branch of the Ninnescah River, the beautiful river that that criss-crosses Highway 54 between Kingman and Cunningham.
Most of Pratt’s downtown buildings are occuppied. Pratt has both a large Wal-Mart store and large Dillons Grocery store. Pratt has a thriving industrial site at the old U.S. Army Air Force B-29 base only about three miles north of town.
Pratt currently has very few houses for sale due to influx of new residents from Greensburg and Wichita.
2853 Comments
Love your coffee break! Very interesting!
Despite the construction, things may not be as rosy in Manhattan as first glance might suggest.
Many blame the anticipated return of more troops to Fort Riley for the March elimination of 61 positions and the closure of two programs at Mercy Regional Health Center in Manhattan.
Why? Those swell of troops, anticipated for several years now, has just not happened yet and businesses that invested lots of money to beef up services and employees are now facing tough decisions about sustaining that growth.
You are too funny! What a great blog item!
No kidding! I have many friends in the health system and the physician stories are seemingly unbelievable! Part of the “god” syndrome? Probably. It’s a cultural problem, I think; that we allow such disrespect towards these other professionals challenges the definition of treating patients/co-workers with human dignity and respect.
Used to be one in Tulsa. Gone now? And is the nearest Krystal closer?
No White Castle in Tulsa. However, according to its Web site, it appears you can get them in some stores around here. Although I’m not sure why anyone would want to do that.
Looks like the nearest Krystal is in Fayetteville.
If you do have to park far away, you have to admit that it is pretty nice to stroll through downtown.
That is of course unless you are late!
That’s ridiculous! Why can’t the police allow 5 minute coffee parking at their coveted but seldom used parking spots? Apparently to “serve and protect” doesn’t apply to a cup of coffee!
How many blocks is it from the Eagle to Old Town? Three? Save yourself a few more minutes and some gas. Leave the car at work and walk from there.
There’s a nice Daily Grind coupon in rotation on Kansas.com. Just fyi. … I’ll be biking over to use it.
Given the surfeit of high-end condo/loft housing materializing, I think what downtown really needs is Whole Foods Market. (The real Whole Foods, not the vitamin shops we already have.) Anybody with me?
I’m with you! Great idea. Or a Trader Joe’s. Or even just a nice local grocery store. It’s almost blasphemy to suggest a Dillon’s or a Wal-Mart downtown. That would ruin the feel that is being created down here. Instead of crying because you can’t get a pint of fried rice, a bottle of contact lense solution and a roll of toilet paper all in one stop, why not ask for: an Asian restaurant, a drug store and a small mom and pop grocery store – all within walking distance of each other. Actually, we already have Hana Cafe in Old Town. I’m sure you could get your pint of fried rice there. It would taste better too. We just need a drug store and a grocery store!
The city is to blame because a retailer chooses to do business in a spot without what you consider ample parking? That’s a good one.
Besides that… there’s parking all along Market St. How willing were you to walk a block for that coffee? It doesn’t take as long as you think.
I think you missed the point, Snarky. I’m not saying the city is to blame. I’m saying retailers might be less likely to locate downtown if they can’t provide parking for customers nearby. And if one of the goals of the city is to get a more active downtown, which I think it is, the might want to give a retailer one or two spots in front of the business for people who are running in and out.
I’m all for walking. But when I’m on my way to work, I’m not going to park two blocks away, walk to get coffee and then walk two blocks back to my car. What’s the point?
Not Dillon’s, please! Having lived downtown for 14+ years, it would be great to have a decent small grocery/drug store downtown. Thankfully, we do have the farmers market on Saturdays where we can at least get fresh produce.
Government has to subsidize the wages of Wal-Mart employees through our social programs.
Very Interesting. I missed this if it was in the paper. More people moving into Kansas than out. Twice as many moving out of Nebraska as in. Hmmm.
It boils down to this issue: As people move downtown to live, into the WaterWalk condos, into the other residential developments and into the new projects that will inevitably follow the arena, they’re going to need more essential lifestyle services.
The form those services take is anyone’s guess, but drugs, groceries, et al. are going to have to happen downtown in some form.
Would prefer to read that Wichita passes on Salerno.
BRAVO!!!!! We’ve all been there, have we not? I purposely have NOT bundled because I have little confidence in their customer service support and genuine concern for the customer.
It’s AT&T rudeness & power over us, not just the bundling. Several years ago they would not let me transfer service, discuss charges or other programs until I first paid an amount $100.00 over anything I had ever been notified of. They won’t even let the new occupants have phone service for over a month.
Get’um Carrie. Deb Gruver would explain it to us but we need something done.
I think what Jean-Cyril Spinhead is trying to say is “We Frenchies would like to have an airplane that leaves a massive carbon footprint, burns more fuel than the space shuttle and have an aircraft capable of bankrupting Airbus”
To top his previous statement he claims: “High fuel prices makes the longer version important”
Just exactly which country invented LSD anyway?
Renewing downtown Wichita by building a 1/2 billion dollar tax-financed downtown arena first was the total flopheaded approach by Wichita’s good old boy network, county commissioners and a small group of opportunist “hired guns” brought here temporarily to help “the little people of Wichita.”
A plan for development of downtown should have the first order of business.
Among the disasterous problems is the white elephant downtown arena is sitting on the site that should have been reserved for the 500 car parking area for a revitalized downtown passenger railroad station in Wichita’s grand old Union Station.
The downtown arena reminds me of that old nursery rhyme:
Humpty dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty dumpty took a great fall.
All the king’s horses and all the king’s men
couldn’t put Humpty dmpty back together again.
In short, the unwanted, unneeded downtown white elephant arena is going to be a rotten egg in the middle of trying to develop a great new downtown Wichita.
Lonnietheplummer said, “Government has to subsidize the wages of Wal-Mart employees through our social programs.”
I work at Wal-Mart and I get nothing from the government. You are wrong and you don’t know what you are talking about. Now, when I did work for a mom and pop hometown grocery store, I did receive government subsidies because they did pay minimum wage and that’s all they pay.
Any place where a single mother works, there will be subsidies, but don’t blame it on Wal-Mart.
Has Wichita become the unwanted step child of North Carolina and the east coast?
In the past several years, Wichita has regularly imported “hired gun” administrators from the southeastern states for some reason.
Now Wichita is considering hiring Pat Salerno, a washed up city manager from a Miami, Florida suburb for an exorbitant amount of money. Salerno is probably worth it in Florida where he knows the politicians, laws, developers, contractors, etc. But here in Wichita, it will take him several months to find the restrooms in city hall.
The recent Wichita downtown development director after working in Wichita for several years and not accomplishing anything but being part of the downtown arena debacle reportedly fled for some town in North Carolina.
George Kolb, recent Wichita city manager applied for a similar job in North Carolina.
And just reported in the past few days, Spirit Airplane Company is planning to build a new assembly plant, not in Wichita, but in North Carolina.
Anybody see a pattern here?
What about a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market? It would be perfect and would give a lot of single mothers a place to work.
Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart_Neighborhood_Market
Also, we lost our business school (WSU) dean to northern kentucky, who then wooed WSU economist Janet Harrah.
Ugh! No more Wal-Marts of any flavor in this town. Why don’t we have a Costco? I’d love a (real) Whole Foods too, but even in the entire KC metro area there’s only one so I don’t know if we have the population base.
I think Kansas is out of luck on a Trader Joe’s until we move our alcohol policies at least up to the 20th century… you need to be able to buy wine and beer (real beer, not that 3-2 crap) in a supermarket. I’d love to have one though. It’s one of the few things I miss about California.
California real estate is cratering fast, and the majority of those “exotic” mortgages haven’t even reset yet. We sold a house in So Cal in February 2003, and it subsequently increased another 50% in value over the next three years. According to zillow.com, it’s now worth about 10% more than what we sold it for.
But KU whipped North Carolina in the Final Four, so there’s that going for us.
I understand you want to bundle but Vonage is WONDERFUL as phone service. I *LOVE* it. Very easy and the tech people are fabulous!!!
Of course, we lost our great Kansas Senator, Robert Dole, to Elizabeth Hanford, later Senator Elizabeth Hanford Dole from North Carolina.
As stated above by the EAGLE’s Dan Loving, USA TODAY reports that Wichita’s municipal airport will experience an 8% REDUCTION in flights by October. So presumably the city’s airport planners will immediately begin planning reduction of the size of the existing terminal and adjacent parking lots.
To avoid sawing off the west end of the airport terminal building, perhaps that space could be converted to additional space for Sheriff’s Steed’s jail. And perhaps a Quik-Trip convenience store could be built in the parking lot to serve airport passengers and employees.
Dan Voorhis: Now give us more information. Off the top of my head, I suspect the growth is in the following activities:
1) Airplane manufacturing in Wichita,
2) Continued growth of the corporate and regional headquarters in Johnson County,
3) Increased oil production due to higher prices per barrel,
4) Increased grain production for ethanol manufacturing,
5) Military base growth particularly Ft. Riley in Junction City,
6) More federal money coming to Kansas for various federally reimbused projects.
Unfortunately, most of these “growth” activities contribute to inflation and further increase our already enormous national debt.
Perhaps Boeing should offer similar perks to the U.S. Air Force to sell those tankers to them.
How the heck did the WSJ find little ol’ Mid-America and its panty hose policy?
So the ‘Tortoise and the Hare’ Story is true!
Yeah, and it could be good for buying horses and train tickets, too! If the average American is priced out of flying AND driving, then horses and trains may be all that’s left to us if want to travel any distance! Good grief.
And motorcyles, motor scooters and bicycles. Funny thing … the big jet airplane manufacturers are now trying to build even bigger airplanes.
Perhaps China with 1.3 billion people is buying. Its my understanding that Chinese technicians are all over the world exploring for oil.
Reminds me of the theory by some historians that Japan inadvertently started WWII in 1941 in an expanded search for more petroleum for their growing industries.
We can’t stop progress even if we don’t like it. the wealthy run the economics of this world. If they want more business jets, that’s fine. It won’t make a huge dent in the commercial market anyway – I mean who do you fly with? Big business flies their execs on business jets most of the time already. the mid-level managers are still going to be flying in the cheapo seats on airliners, there is no way these companies can justify sending their low-paid help on a business jet that costs thousands of dollars per hour to operate. Its not a big deal to the average consumer.
The real problem is that gas prices are going up and so are fares on comercial airlines. Business jet sales will not change that. It’s a simple supply and demand issue, like everything else in the economy.
There is a major point missed here. It is not just sales of business jets that will benefit from the airline cutback, it is also turboprops and piston airplanes, new and used. All of General Aviation will benefit. Business leaders are discovering that General Aviation is a valuable business tool and not all that expensive.
It is not possible to get new businesses to locate in the area without significant financial consideration from government. Yet, that consideration is definitely unfair to other existing businesses. Aircraft parts manufacturer Lopresti got $40 million just for its location. Piper Aircraft got $35 million to remain in its location. If government wants the businesses and therefore the jobs and tax revenue, it must pay. Said another way, your job may only exist because your government bought it. Sure it is unfair to existing businesses, but what else do you do? How about some ideas?
The ICON of the American dream is the Statue of Liberty. It promises freedom, liberty and justice for all … not based on class structure, race of ethnicity … but based on honest hard work by each person to achieve his/her goals and ambitions, thereby helping not only themselves but society generally.
Is this dream still available and achievable? Or has it evaporated like the huge billowing cumulus clouds after a spring rain?
The great old Broadview Hotel was opened for business in 1921. Builder and, I believe owner for a time, was George Siedhoff, a contractor who built some of Wichita’s best buildings back in the 1920’s and 30’s. Coming from Kansas City and eventually retiring in Emporia, downtown Wichita would be a lot less than it is now without his contribution. Unfortunately most of his buildings are now reaching “old age” and need to be renovated before its too late.
On the west side of the Broadview Hotel, between the hotel and the Arkansas river, was the headquarters of the Arkansas Valley Interurban lines that extended throughout the Wichita metropolitan area to places like Newton, Halstead, Hutchinson and presumably south as well.
Also the famous “island” in the Arkansas River which contained the baseball park that later burned down. The Lawrence-Dumont Stadium was built in 1936 to take its place. A government WPA project wiped out all traces of the old island.
During the middle 1920’s, headquarters of Travel Aire airplane manufacturing company was located on Douglas just west of the Arkansas River. It was on the south side of Douglas just west of today’s Metropolitan Baptist Church. The Baptist Church is on a site of the old Midland railroad station.
Oops, I almost forgot too mention, in the mid-twenties, Travel Aire was owned by Clyde Cessna, Walter Beech and Lloyd Stearman. Prior to WWII, Boeing from Seattle bought the Stearman airplane manufacturing company. Wichita’s Walter Innes and a Pratt banker (Peoples Bank of Pratt) were said to have assisted these air pioneers with financing at meetings in the old abandoned house on the Ninnescah River bluff five miles east of Pratt.
Under the Broadview, it was said a “speakeasy” existed in a former large restaurant during prohibition days but does anyone alive today actually remember this?
I’ve been told a coffee cup sign hung along the south exterior wall of the hotel marking the entrance to the hotel coffee shop probably in the 1940’s or 1950’s. However, I can’t find a photograph that shows the cup sign.
The Koch engineering company was located in a rather nondescript building on the south side of Douglas from the Broadview Hotel until the 1960’s then they moved up north to make way for Century II. The original Fred Koch had officed in the present day Boathouse at Lewis and the Arkansas River for some 15 years before moving his company to the building across Douglas from the Broadview Hotel.
Presumably the Broadview Hotel coffee shop got a lot of usage from the Koch entourage across the street.
And some people tell about dancing the night away in the old rooftop gardens on top of the Broadview Hotel. Glenn Miller orchestra anyone?
It seems the Broadview Hotel represents the icon of Wichita business history. Much more there than the bricks and mortar of a regular hotel building.
Is there any question the Broadview should be renovated and returned to its former days of glory?
How about deep-fried bacon strips dipped in gravy?
Wichita has had a city manager form of government of some kind since 1917. Apparently Wichita’s Rotary Club championed the city manager form of government in 1916. For many, many years, Wichita had a five member city commission plus the city manager. According to a list I have, the first three city managers were L.R. Ash, L.W. Clapp and R.C. Elliott.
In 1927, a local fellow, a Quaker, who had worked in Wichita’s city engineering department, Bert C. Wells, was appointed Wichita City Manager and continued on until WW II. (I’m not sure what year he left the job.) He was well liked and could do everything asked of him but one … it was said he couldn’t give a speech!
It was during Mayor Bob Knight’s reign that the five member city commission was changed to the present seven member city council.
Even so, Wichita has one of the most conservative, “strong” city manager plans in the nation. In Wichita, the mayor can’t even hire an assistant or secretary or purchase an office chair without the permission of the city manager.
If our City Council had any saavy, what should have happened before hiring a permanent city manager was to establish a blue ribbon citizens committee to consider revising Wichita’s city charter and manager plan to give more power to the Mayor so he could adequately represent the voters of Wichita. Now the Mayor more or less takes orders from the city manager.
But if the current seven member city council wants a city manager who will run everything so they don’t have to do any work to earn their $35,000 per year per council person … then they have got their man.
Warren’s complaints ring hollow when you consider the subsidies he and the rest of the over-priced businesses in Old Town get.
They should have kept Flentje in the position. A manager should MANAGE – not set direction. That should be the job of the mayor and council.
I give him until the second Tuesday in April, 2011.
The title of P.J. Griekspoor’s ethanol commentary above should be lengthened as follows: Ethanol cuts gas prices, has little impact on food (according to some unknown commodity strategist) … BUT IN KANSAS AND ADJACENT STATES ETHANOL PRODUCTION USES GIGANTIC AMOUNTS OF OUR VALUABLE WATER FROM THE ALREADY DECLINING DEEP UNDERGROUND OGALLALA AQUIFER.
From my examination of various sources of information about ethanol production, every gallon of ethanol requires some 10 to 20 gallons of new water, over and above recycled water used in the process. The water is then discharged as a wet mass of stinking, air polluting sour mash effluent generally put in slit trenches by a battery of Catepellor tractors. This effluent then taints the shallow layers of soil around the ethanol plant or is fed to hogs and cattle in industrial farms.
These ethanol plants will hasten the coming day when Kansas will run out of its wonderful natural resource … the relatively pure underground Ogallala aquifer water for municipal drinking water supplies across the state.
Then Kansans will be relegated to obtaining its municipal water supplies from the already polluted surface river waters such as from the Arkansas River in Wichita.
Note to politicians: The best locations for ethanol plants would be at the outfall pipes of treated regurgitated sanitary sewage from our large urban sewage treatment plants. Or along the lower Mississippi River capturing billions of gallons of muddy Mississippi river water rushing towards the Gulf of Mexico.
Governor Sebelius and Senator Brownback: Can we offer you a glass of polluted drinking water from Wichita’s Arkansas River?
I fly between London and New York every few weeks. If your paper suddenly needs you to cover some business news in London, I suggest you fly Virgin Atlantic.
You get to check two bags, and are allowed one carry-on, along with a handbag.
The staff are always pleasant, even funny, and they feed you well.
I flew in on Tuesday, and not only did I get dinner, but pretzels, a choice of juice or soda, water, ice cream (in addition to the dessert), and a brownie with coffee a few hours later. They will give you as much juice, soda, and/or water as you want.
The planes are always clean. In addition, they give you a nice little bag with some useful items, like flight slippers and a toothbrush. Pillows and blankets are standard.
I never take the miserable American carriers.
Not to mention the fact that ethanol has a lower BTU content than gasoline so it takes more of it to do the same work, thereby aggravating the above mentioned conditions. The extra fuel required to grow all that corn, transport it to ethanol plants and then deliver it for use places an added burden on the diesel supply. And don’t forget the already terribly expensive supply chain for the man made chemical fertilizers used on those crops. Ethanol will never be anything but a wasteful short term solution to a much larger problem.
Good Post Wink!
And I notice “PJ” has NEVER missed an opportunity to shill FOR ethanol.
And Sunflower Electric’s Holcomb plant. Wasnt Greikspoor the one who bought and sold stevie miller’s “magic algae” story with NO critical analysis?
Considereing that kind of “journalism” (and I use the term broadly) shouldnt “PJ” be on the editorial page?
To put that blatent shilling on the “news” pages is an insult to readers. And does nothing to enhance the WE.
Put “PJ” next to values boy. Shilling is as shilling does. They have about the same level of credibility.
OH, and a question for PJ. Do you ever do ANY research beyond reading press releases?
Woof.
“According to Earthjustice’s own account, ” UNDER THE LAW GOVERNING THE PROGRAM and RUS’s agreements with Sunflower, RUS must also approve any expansion of Sunflower’s plants and any new loans that Sunflower seeks from non-government sources.”
A shill and a numbskull?
Perhaps, Earthjutice interpreted that NOT as saying they “must approve” like they HAVE to approve, but as in Sunflower must have their approval.
Which they didnt. Why not ask the question, why didnt Sunflower SEEK the approval as required by… wait for it… THE LAW!
Jesus WEPT!
RUS loans money WHEN APPROPRIATE.
It isnt automatic. There is an approval PROCESS.
In otherwords, Sunflower needed to follow the process. Which Earthjustice doesnt believe they did.
Apparantly, they only sought PJ’s approval. With the media in their pocket, what else did they need?
Big eye roll….
I bet he wont last that long.
Wichita would have been lucky to keep Flentje. This guy? Not so much.
You are always correct, Mr. C about the GOBN.
Rural Utility Service is part of the gargantuan U.S. Department of Agriculture in Washington D.C. This organization probably has hundreds of attorneys and law students on its staff … hardly a defenseless, toothless organization.
My the Rural Untility Service staff understands there is no Democratic or Republican way, no liberal or conservative way of solving our environmental problems … just the way that will provide an environmentally sound way of life for American citizens.
Francisco Blanch is hardly unknown. Dr. Blanch received his Doctorate in Economics from Complutense University of Madrid. He received a Masters degree in Public Administration from Harvard and a graduate degree from UC-Berkeley.
Dr. Blanch is Head of Global Commodity Research for Merrill Lynch. Before that he was an Analyst and Commodity Strategist, also for Merrill Lynch. Merrill Lynch has offices in 36 countries and has control of $1.8 trillion in client assets. To be employed by Merrill Lynch is an achievement. To be the head of a Merrill Lynch group is an extremely significant achievement.
Dr. Blanch is widely published, with 400 – 500 quotations readily available on line and several hundred quotations or opinions in print each year. He is used as a research source by a large number of companies in the commodity business, including many Fortune 500 companies. He is one of the most widely recognized sources of credible opinions in the world commodity industry.
Buswriter: I do appreciate extensive resume of education and experience in a complicated field such as you ascribe to Dr. Francisco Blanch. And yes, I had stockbroker friends working for Merrill Lynch in Kansas City back in the 1970’s although my accounts were with other firms.
My response is Dr. Blanch is most likely correct about ethanol economics although he did point out an extensive list of related drawbacks.
My concern and concern of other critical commenters here on the Wichita EAGLE blogs is generally the danger of ethanol production withdrawing humongous quantities of water from Kansas’ underground Ogallala aquifer located under most of western Kansas and the Equus Beds aquifer located near Halstead.
Wichita gets roughly 1/2 its drinking water from the Equus Beds aquifer near Halstead. The other 1/2 comes from Chaney Reservoir, a manmade lake which receives its water from the north branch of the Ninnescah River. Both branches of the so far always running Ninnescah River essentially begin in Pratt County, 75 miles west of Wichita.
The source of water in both branches of the Ninnescah Rivers is essentially seepage upward from the Ogallala aquifer. Unfortunately the upward rise of Ogallala water particularly between Hutchinson and Kingman absorbs some salt from the salt layers giving the Ninnescah Rivers some salt pollution in recent years.
My point is the state of Kansas is DEFINITELY NOT A GOOD LOCATION FOR ETHANOL INDUSTRIAL PLANTS NOR COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS. As I have said before, preferred ethanol production locations would be the outfall of sewage effluent in major urban cities across America. Perhaps the treated solids in the sewage effluent might actually increase the miles per gallon of the ethanol produced from that source.
Or perhaps good locations along the Mississippi River in Louisiana utilizing the muddy river water from Old Man River as it rolls toward the Gulf of Mexico.
But Kansas is not the proper location for these water gulping ethanol plants or coal fired power plants.
The “economics” of ethanol would be VERY different if big corn, big irrigation, and ethanol production were NOT being heavily subsidized by YOUR tax dollars. If ethanol had to truely pay its way, consumers would not be saving money at the pump.
And I wonder how much of their “savings” at the pump are lost by increases in taxes? Not to mention the ozone problems caused by burning ethanol. And it’s less efficient in the tank. Let’s see some analysis here.
But this part of the post is true:
“The real culprits in escalating food prices are rapidly increasing oil prices, increased global demand for meat and grains, commodity speculation, the declining value of the dollar, droughts and bad weather.”
If there’s ten cents of wheat in a loaf of bread, the price of wheat could double and it would increase the price of bread very little.
The biggest objection I have about ethanol is, as Wink pointed out, the water it uses. Not only in processing, but in irrigating corn and transporting it as well. And there are opportunity costs for planting other grains when corn and ethanol are so heavily subsidized.
Put the ethanol plants somewhere besides the Great American Desert. Develop OTHER sources for starch than grain. That technology isnt as near as big ag shills want you to think.
In fact, it’s really no closer to reality than “magic algae”.
Big eye roll…
…and since we are highly unlikely to see anything like this from o’l PJ, let me repost this from the Salina Journal. Evils of ethanol.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MO_BLUNT_ETHANOL_KSOL-?SITE=KSSAL&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
McClatchy plans to cut their expenses in half in just four years! What business can survive that?
Wichita has very little in common with Sunrise. Development in Sunrise was driven by EXTERNAL factors – the larger cities nearby. Wichita is a stand-alone city and must find developments that will likewise stand on their own. Salerno has not shown that he knows anything about that.
“There but for the grace of God goes … Kansas and Wichita.”
Was just watching more distress stories about the floods in Iowa. It’s unbelievable. Question is: could this conflaguration happen right here in Wichita/river city?
Anytime you have an eight inch rain, you will have a flood, even if you are standing on the top of a hill.
Here in Wichita, we have the flood ditch around the main part of Wichita. However, the gravel embankments would only last an hour or so at full flow before collapsing from the velocity of the water flow.
And what if tornadoes like the ones that struck Greensburg or Chapman/Manhattan last week … would hit Wichita? Is there any planning for these eventualities? If there is planning, it must be a well kept secret.
I’m very concerned about the deteriorating financial situation of McClatchy Corporation and by their newspapers, particularly the Wichita EAGLE, the Kansas City Star and I believe the newspaper in Olathe. Best wishes in pulling out of this nose dive.
bth: Not too mention that Sunrise is located in a different state with different laws, politicians, contractors, engineers, architects, problems, culture, etc. I expect one of Mr. Salerno’s first questions will be: Where’s city hall? Where’s the restroom? Is that the Missouri River flowing through town?
That lack of knowledge should give the GOBN about a year to get their ducks in order or find new jobs.
Very good point ksfg. It would seem that the wording should give Sunflower’s financers some control.
All the more reason to improve rail transportation. Even if not suitable for very long distances perhaps it would reduce the congestion at airports and make flying better for the long-haul traveller.
A side benefit of rail for Kansas. Instead of being ‘fly-over’ territory we might then get people to stop and see what’s here as they travel cross-country. When I toured Europe I visited numerous out-of-the-way places and found them much more interesting than the regular tourist stops.
“he guided the construction of an arena in Sunrise, Fla.”
I wonder how the population within the arena’s service area there compares to here. We have maybe a half-million people to draw from.
“He (Salerno, the new $250,000/year Wichita city manager, including salary, perks, termination guarantees and don’t forget, sumptious snacks) guided construction of an arena in Sunrise, Florida.”
My reply: So did some 50 to 100 white elephant arena cheerleaders here in Wichita … to “give the little people of Wichita an new recreational venue,” (while emptying those “little peoples” billfolds of half billion dollars in sales taxes behind their backs).
But now that the up front money has been spent on lavish parties, most of those fly-by-night arena cheerleaders have moved on to other “river cities,” to sell non-existent band uniforms … with the exception of the three holdover Sedgwick county commissioners, Tom Winters, Dave Unruh, Tim Norton.
Why no mention of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas? Or Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City? Or Delta Dental Insurance Companies? Perhaps they are on the longer lists.
Thanks Ben. That always means a lot coming from you!
Each state should establish a “Health services users council,” and eventually blend these into a “National health services users council.” At least 10% of members should be individuals responsible for the health care of large diverse families.
And no doctors should be allowed on these “health users councils.”
Actually, in my comment above, I should have said every state should establish a “health services users ROUNDTABLE.” The term “Roundtable” was used in the large building and highway construction industry beginning some thirty years ago with what I thought to be some success.
I believe its easily forgotten the “users” side of any industry has a lot at stake in these service issues. For example, in the health care industry, in my opinion, doctors are the last ones who should be asked for advice on how to make improvements … they will be self serving every time.
It’s pathetic that Joyland cannot be resurrected. The infrastructure and brand are there; but the location is out of style. Big deal, not all of us are addicted to far east or far west Wichita.
Joyland borders I-35. That fact should be exploited and the western side of the park built up so that it is obvious from the highway, like Frontiertown in Oklahoma City.
I worked at Joyland when I was a kid. Does anybody know that Joyland once had it’s own locomotive diesel engines in a building behind the roller coaster, and generated it’s own power? The place is living history, and needs to be rescued.
Wild West World was a pie-in-the-sky idea from the very beginning. Ugly, corny, barren and too commercial.
Too bad for Wichita.
TUESDAY EVENING, 6/17/08 ABOUT 9:30 PM: A few minutes ago, I drove over the Kellogg flyover near downtown Wichita. From a point near Lawrence-Dumont Stadium, I noticed the almost full moon rising up from the southeastern horizon.
I recall the June full moon is known as the “strawberry moon” by the Shawnee Indians, presumably because its strawberry picking season no matter what your culture.
Technically, the full Moon is not full until tomorrow, Wednesday, June 18th. The Moon is precisely full when it reaches a point every 29 days on the opposite side of the earth from the sun. Checking a moon chart, I see the moon will be precisely full tomorrow just after noon … but, alas, for us here in Wichita, the moon will be out of sight, on the other side of the Earth, presumably somewhere over China at noon tomorrow.
But no problem. The moon will continue to look full tomorrow night and even the next night as it begins to wane away from the full moon position.
Tomorrow evening, Wednesday, June 18, the strawberry full Moon will rise at 9:22 PM over the southeastern horizon. A few minutes earlier, the sun will have set on the other side of the earth. The few minutes difference is due to geometry, parallax and dust/rain droplets in the atmosphere.
************************
By coincidence, and with no astronomical connection, the summer solstice on the longest day of the year and shortest night will take place a couple days later on Friday/Saturday, June 20th and 21st. Some people call the summer solstice the beginning of summer … I consider it the middle of summer because on that day the days begin to grow shorter bringing on the fall and winter months.
The summer and winter seasons are brought to us courtesy of the 23 1/2 degree permanent tilt of the earth to the line vertical to the horizontal line from the Earth to the Sun. So thank your Intelligent Designer for this wonderful life giving tilt.
Ksfarmgirl:
are you aware that the “magic algae” was not Steve Miller’s proposal. It is the brain child of the K-State related organization NISTAC, which conceived the integrated bioenergy park and asked Sunflower to partner in the project. Which Sunflower agreed to do. AND Nistac intends to proceed with the project regardless of the coal plant outcome. In reality, what you call “magic” algae is in advanced stages of commercial development, which is a lot more than can be said for “magic” batteries that can store wind power and feed it out to the grid when needed.
AT&T U-verse will be here before the end of the year… whether the Eagle likes it or not.
well pj, given the number of times you quoted steve miller in this article:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1083945/out_of_algae_a_green_idea/index.html
and others, I stand behind my statement that steve miller’s press release was your major source. Did he direct you to Nistac? Or vice versa? Which came first here, the chicken or the egg? ‘Cause your “sources” certainly are birds of a feather.
Of COURSE the two have each other’s backs.
There is substantial professional disagreement about how “near” commercializtion that technology is. Yet, your foxlike “fair and balanced” pieces have NEVER included comments from those who believe this technology is a looooong way from being viable commercially.
I never said a damn thing about wind. But the fact that you brought it up in such a negative way tells me you really ARE shilling for big coal and steve miller.
Heheheh. The best you can do is to say “yeah, well, it’s better than wind….”
Hell, a sharp stick in the eye is better than being fatally gutted by a Bowie knife too, but that is little defense for a sharp stick.
But please, if it makes you feel better, attack wind instead of doing BALANCED research on the magic algae.
I’m calling you out on your shilling. I wonder if it will matter then next time you get an opportunity to write a very misleading, one sided article about coal.
Or ethanol. Yet another of steve miller’s projects. You know, among many statements, he says the coal plant expansion is needed because of ALL the ethanol plants in the desert area of sw ks.
So… when the water is gone for corn irrigation and ethanol processing, will Sunflower’s end users get stuck with the stranded asset at Holcomb and be holding the bag for repaying all those loans?
You need some schoolin’ there kiddo. Believe it or not, steve miller isnt the only opinon you should publish. Some info from those who oppose Holcomb and ethanol plants in the desert my actually give you info instead of press releases.
Oh, and btw, will you be shilling for HFCS next? It’s gotta be in a Corn Grower’s Association press release somewhere. Jere is thorough.
“In reality, what you call “magic” algae is in advanced stages of commercial development”
So… why dont you tell us the projected date it will be commercially viable?
Because if you dont have such a date, such weasel words as “advanced stages” mean no more than steve miller’s empty promises.
What the hell does “advanced stages” mean? Are they experimenting at Holcomb? Then say so. Dont act like it’s ready to go if it’s not.
And btw.. how much WATER is it going to suck up and are the water amounts to be used included in the 30,000 acre feet of water sunflower says it has secured? Or will it require additional water rights, and are THEY secured?
Seems like somewhere closer to reliable water would be a better place to test this “magic alge” technology.
Somewhere like an ethanol plant in Iowa, Illinois, or Missouri… Why would you test such a water hog in a declared drought area like sw kansas.
You DO know governor “leadership” declared counties down there to be in drought emergencies? How will THAT affect the water available for all of Sunflower’s projects and the ethanol plant.
Water is the biggest issue of this decade and the next. Why dont you report on those issues?
Or does big ag pay you enough to ignore the water issues?
Interesting that the author didn’t seem to want to identify the company.
Mrcontroversy … I’m not sure what you mean by “whether the Eagle likes it or not.” Can you enlighten me? As far as I’m concerned, I can’t wait for U-verse. The competition will be good.
Actually, PetroSun, an Arizona-based company, began a commercial algae to biodiesel operation on 1,100 acres of saltwater ponds in Rio Hondo, Texas on April 1 of 2008. They plan to produce 4.4 million gallons of biodiesel and 110 million pounds of biomass annually and have reserved 20 acres of ponds for testing algal jet fuel for the Department of Defense.
Give me a break!
Take that hit piece the Eagle wrote in January of 2007 that was slanted wayyyy too much toward Cox.
Take the fact that trying to get anything past Lori Linenberger regarding any of the four local stations Cox refuses to carry is tantamount to a act of espionage.
Take the fact that the Eagle–at the urging of the local cable company–took KCTU out of the TV listings in 1995. Now they say the TV listings are “a paid supplement”… never mind that the Monday through Saturday listings show no such annotation. Would the higher-ups at McClatchy like to know that the Eagle is giving Cox $20,200 a week in apparently free advertising?
And then there’s the whole TV guide thing… you ask the newsroom, they tell you it’s an advertising product; ask the advertising department and they tell you it’s “news content provided by Cox”.
Care for any MORE enlightenment?
“news content provided by Cox”.
Sounds almost as bad as FAUX running GOP campaign ads as “news content provided by the GOP”.
The day I was liberated from Cox and went on to much better by the simple installation of a dish started out a good day. It wasn’t until I encountered the lack of customer service provided by Cox Communications that it went downhill.
The monthly bill came in the mail and I noticed a “converter box” rental had increased to $5 per month. I needed to be downtown for another reason so unhooked the box, tucked the bill into my purse and added that stop to my list of errands.
I was greeted pleasantly and asked how I might be helped when I approached the counter. I explained we didn’t use the television the box had been hooked to any longer so I wanted to return it and not be charged that monthly rental in the future.
After typing in some info I was told I wasn’t on the account and couldn’t make changes — only my husband could do that.
We need to back up a tiny bit so you will understand that I had personally set up our account with Multi-Media and my future husband moved into my house and my existing cable services after that point. Through the buy outs and changing of hands somehow now with this Cox Communications company he was the only person on the account. I don’t know when or who made that change, I just know it wasn’t either of us. Just as I won’t ever work on a small engine, my husband won’t ever interact with a cable company. That’s just not how it’s done at our house!
Back to the present and me standing at the counter trying to return the rented box.
I offered the bill that arrived in that day’s mail, several forms of ID showing I lived at that address. Nope! I couldn’t make changes to the account that was in my husband’s name. I asked for the Supervisor.
Long story short. I had to ask for the Supervisor’s Supervisor. Now, I’m seated at a desk of the third person I have explained my need to. Pleasantly, she repeated the “not on the account” meme. I asked if my husband could make changes over the phone and she said, “Yes.” She turned to her back bar, dialed the number I gave her and handed the receiver across the desk to me.
I said, Wayne, I’m at Cox and they need your permission for me to return a rented box. Now, hubby knows me and he knows this was code. Remember, he knew this was my area and needing his permission meant some “stuff” was going down. Some “stuff” he wanted to avoid! I handed the receiver back across the desk and after she and he exchange a few words she hangs up, turns back to me with the announcement that “Your husband, the account holder, said you had his permission to make changes.”
I asked if I could make any and all changes. She said, “Yes.” And she never even saw it coming!
A man on the other end of a phone number I provided gave me permission to make changes to his account. I don’t do business with people that stupid! I didn’t wonder for long whether they ever figured any of it out as I headed out the door after canceling the account in its entirety!
The day they could have ruined turned out to be a great day! I have a superior product, superior customer service and a lower price. All because they decided I wasn’t on the account!
Linda, Ben:
Just had another great conversation with AT&T
This sounds ALMOST as bad as my experiences with Verizon Business Solutions since their takeover of MCI. Unilateral changes in service conditions, false billings, overcharges, etc.
I wonder if Alltel cellphone customers will have similar problems with Verizon cellphone.
PetroSun went commercial with its 1,100 acre saltwater algae farm in Rio Honcho, Texas on April 1.
GreenFuel Technologies (same company that did the pilot at Holcomb) is building a $97 million commercial plant utilizing CO2 and Nitrogen gas from coal-fired electrical generation in Europe. It should be online sometime in 2009.
PJ – I hope as much as anyone that the algae technology can be commercialized. However, I also know that there is a very long road from lab to pilot plant to demonstration plant to full-scale commercial production. I have shepgerded tachnologies along that road. I have also seen too many technologies not make it the way down that road. So, my standing challenge to Sunflower remains: build such a plant at the existing Holcomb plant and I will believe it. (After K-State or WSU verifies it)
I know the science works; I am less sure about the engineerig.
Tom, ol buddy. That’s my company your pounding on. If you think about it, little miss Payton pulled the same thing that Darlene Drunyan did when she was at Boeing. Payton distorted the facts and the numbers to make Airbus look like it was the King. I think that congress should launch an inquiry to find out how and why the numbers were fudged to favor Airbus.
What is going to happen if the USAF decides to stay its course, those senators and congressmen who sided with TT will vote to cut funding for the project. Thats great for the people who are in the spares business which leads me to ask. Just where will the USAF get the spares for the A330 and will they get them in a timely manner. AOG’s need parts immediately and God forbid we do anything to upset the French.
I’m just curious as to what’s going to happen if Airbus loses out. Are they going to leave Mobile hangin for the costs of building the 600 million dollar plant and will they keep their promise to allow Northrop to build the A330 cargo plane?
The water issue for ethanol is a bogus issue. First, when agricultural land water rights are converted to industrial use, only half the agricultural water rights are available to the industrial user. Each acre of water rights purchased for use by an ethanol plant cuts the use of the water per acre in half. The ethanol plant would use half of the water the farmer would have used. The more land water rights converted to ethanol use, the greater the savings in water use per acre.
Very little irrigation is used to produce grain for an ethanol plant, at least in Kansas. According to data approximated from the Kansas Sorghum Producers Association, only 10% of the grain used for ethanol is corn and only a small portion of that is irrigated. Ninety percent of the grain used is grain sorghum and 90% of that is dry land grown. Notice that is possible for a farmer to sell the water rights for his land to an ethanol plant and then turn around and grow dry land grain sorghum to sell to the same plant. He wins both ways and the water use for the land is cut in half.
The numbers shown for water use are large and seem to be daunting. However, when the numbers are put in perspective a different picture emerges. According to City of Wichita data, the capacity of the City water plant is 105 million gallons per day. According to filings with the City from Abengoa when applying for water supplies for their Colwich plant, Abengoa wanted 821,000 gallons per day. That is 0.7% of the city capacity. By comparison, City documents show that Spirit Aerosystems uses 2 million gallons per day. Abengoa does not plan on using any agricultural land water rights at all and their entire water use will be less than half of that used by Spirit.
According to data provided by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, one of the states than keeps data on water use by ethanol plants, water use per bushel has declined by 20% in recent years. According to data from ethanol plant builder ICM Industries, the water use in 2007 for the plants it built is less than half of the water use reported state-wide by MN-DNR. Further, the technology already exists to use non-potable water. Newly constructed ethanol plants can use secondary water from water treatment plants and run-off from animal containment facilities.
Whatever the problems are with ethanol production, water use isn’t one of them.
Well, I am a member of Gen X too and do NOT think it’s okay to overdraw your checking account. Last year, I was livid with one of my vendors, who I pay online, when they took out the amount of my payment TWICE and overdrafted my account. So, at 35, I paid overdraft fees last year, but hadn’t paid them before that since I was 18. And to be honest, I thought I had over draft protection tied to that account. Surprise! I never sent the paperwork in. Luckily my bank waived the overdraft fees when I appealed to my vendor. (Who stilled claimed they were not at fault and that I had intentionally paid them twice!) I still had to pay fees to the vendor for reversing the payment to them. Not being responsible and paying these fees is a gigantic waste of money!!!
Is someone editing the postings? My last two submissions did not get posted.
Apologies, Buswriter. You were mistakenly identified as spam. Everything should be posted now. Thanks for the heads-up.
Stop fighting it. You will tweet and you will like it.
This could be fun. It does seem that the City did everything it could to run them off. Compare/contrast that to the $6 million handout they have for Bill Warren.
Thanks, Buswriter for sharing some of sound science. And thank bth for your sane comments. I, too, hope that algae promise will be realized. I know that a lot of the technology to get us past where we are today has yet to be developed. And that’s what I meant by my wind comment. I’m not against developing wind. I just think we have to realize that there are a lot of hurdles to cross before we get where we need to be. The people who wnat to pretend that algae is way out there like to pretend that wind batteries are just around the corner. In reality, both have a long way to go. I applaud the sincere, hardworking people who are trying to make real solutions happen. And that includes the people in the ethanol industy who are working to improve technology every day that goes by.
Algae farming, by the way, using pratically no water, especially the closed system they tested at Holcomb. Small amounts of waste water from the electric plant are captured to grow algae, but the water consumption is virtually zero. Most other systems use saltwater or brackish water. Algae farms are absolutely NOT a water issue.
Retailers could do more to deal with the credit card costs than they are now doing. Our company accepts credit cards and has discovered some interesting details. First, the discount rate for all credit cards is not the same. The cheapest is Visa/Mastercard, Discover is in the middle, and American Express is the highest. There is a 2 1/2 % difference between Visa and AX. AX is so expensive that we chose not to accept their cards. Our prices have to be set to accept the discount rate of Discover and we make an additional 1 1/2 % margin on Visa.
We encountered a problem with one particular bank on a Visa card issued by them. We chose to add an extra 3% fee to the invoice if a customer wanted to present a card issued on that bank. It was an issue with a bank, not with Visa. Kansas law prevents the adding of a fee for credit card transactions. We increased all prices by 3% and granted a discount for all cards except that one. The bank received some complaints about the practice, eventually fixed the problem, and we eliminated the practice.
Think what would happen if retailers priced the product according to the impact of the discount rate that was applied to them. If Visa was 1 1/2 % less than the other cards and the price reflected that, it would not take consumers long to figure out that was the card to use. It would not take credit card companies long to see that the discount rates assessed to their retailer clients was no longer a secret and consumers were making purchase decisions on that disclosure. I’ll bet the discount rates would start dropping.
How about it, who’s first?
Doesn’t this mean that cash customers have to pay the higher credit card established price?
That brings me back to my challenge to Sunflower: build the algae plant NOW at the existing coal plant. Don’t rely on Neufield’s bogus claim that an experimental pilot plant would make a new coal plant carbon-neutral.
brackish water – I wonder if they can use water from the lower (Dakota I think) aquifer? That would be quite interesting.
Isn’t the x factor here, though, the wholesale fuel buying power of QT and Kwik Shop? We’ve had several independent operators tell us that they need to charge more for fuel, but can’t because they are forced by the market to compete with the two major convenience stores.
Bwaaaaa-haa-haaaaaa!
“The people who wnat to pretend that algae is way out there like to pretend that wind batteries are just around the corner. In reality, both have a long way to go.”
Please dont assume I’m a fan of wind power. I’m not.
But thanks for FINALLY admiting that “both have a long way to go.” After you made it sound like algae was indeed “ready to go”. That was might point in the first place, and why we call it “magic algae”. It DOES have a long way to go to be commercially viable.
“Algae farming, by the way, using pratically no water, especially the closed system they tested at Holcomb. Small amounts of waste water from the electric plant are captured to grow algae, but the water consumption is virtually zero. Most other systems use saltwater or brackish water. Algae farms are absolutely NOT a water issue.”
Link please? “practically no water” is not a very specific term. “Small amounts of water water”? Link please. What is a “small amount”? And the water consumption cant be “virtually zero” unless the algae water is “virtually” all recycled. If it’s dumped at the end, it “consumes” one hundred percent.
Algae farms may not be a water issue in areas that have NOT been designated just this month as serious draught areas. Which is my point all along. Why put algae farms AND water sucking coal plants in a region that is notoriously short on water. Put it in eastern Kansas where there is more water.
“The people who wnat to pretend that algae is way out there like to pretend that wind batteries are just around the corner. In reality, both have a long way to go”
Dont assume I’m a fan of wind power. I’m not. But nice try of painting me with the wrong brush.
And thanks for admiting that “both have a long way to go”. That was my point about algae in the beginnning. Despite Steve Miller’s rosy projections, algae DOES have a long way to go to be commercially viable.
Unlike what you said here “In reality, what you call “magic” algae is in advanced stages of commercial development”. Thanks for admiting the truth.
Oh, and one more thing. The question I asked was if the water to be used by “magic algae” was included in the water use figures submitted in Sunflower’s original proposal to the state? I’m sure steve miller is on your speed dial…
I love your implication that my comments are not “sane”. And yet… you finaly admitted the truth on some, and ignored the others.
Defensive?
“The water issue for ethanol is a bogus issue. First, when agricultural land water rights are converted to industrial use, only half the agricultural water rights are available to the industrial user.”
Link please? I could be wrong, but I thought it was only reduced by twenty percent, not half.
No one challenged Jwink’s figures of about ten gallons of water for every gallon of ethanol. That is the figure we are looking at, not “water per bushel”. WTF? Nice try at mixing apples and oranges. “water use per bushel has declined by 20% in recent years” is very different than water used per gallon of ethanol. And I’d like a link to read it for myself.
“Very little irrigation is used to produce grain for an ethanol plant, at least in Kansas. According to data approximated from the Kansas Sorghum Producers Association, only 10% of the grain used for ethanol is corn and only a small portion of that is irrigated. Ninety percent of the grain used is grain sorghum and 90% of that is dry land grown.”
Link please? Pardon me for being suspicious of the sorghum producers potential for skewing the numbers. I’d like a link to read it for myself. As a resident of western Kansas, that isnt my experience at all. And I bet those figures dont apply to ALL ethanol plants. The ones in southwest Kansas, you know, the ones located in designated drought areas, use almost ALL irrigated grains. How much dryland corn and other grains besided wheat are grown DOWN THERE?
Comparing water usage as a percentage of total usage in the Wichita area with the usage in DROUGHT areas like southwest Kansas are apples and oranges. If you want to use your more plentiful water down there for ethanol, go for it. But it IS insane to be doing it in southwest Kansas.
And I note that you did not address someone else’s questions about the fuel usage to grow and transport those grains used by ethanol. That just goes to ethanol being energy negative. It USES more energy than it produces, as Wink pointed out.
“According to data from ethanol plant builder ICM Industries, the water use in 2007 for the plants it built is less than half of the water use reported state-wide by MN-DNR.”
Well then, since the BUILDER of ethanol plants says it is so, it must be so? Tautology. Link please? I thought the data from MN-DNR was about use per bushel, as in irrigation, not ethanol use. That is why links are so useful for verifying industry provided info.
“Further, the technology already exists to use non-potable water. Newly constructed ethanol plants can use secondary water from water treatment plants and run-off from animal containment facilities.”
That may be true (link please) but if so? Why arent they using that “existing technology” in southwest Kansas instead of using potable water. Just because they supposedly CAN use that tech, doesnt mean they are.
Why not?
Or.. does the technology “exist” but isnt, as we started this debate saying, “commercially viable”.
I tell ya, you gotta read the fine print carefully when dealing with industry shills. And almost ALL of buswriters “facts” are unlinked, and from industry sources that have a vested interest in promoting ethanol.
Perhaps that’s why some of us CALL you shills!
I wonder if “buswriter” is short for Business Writer?
…I wonder who bizwriter writes for. The WE? Or the grain and/or ethanol industries?
Good points ksfg. I have been around the ethanol industry; I am not a stranger there. I’d LOVE to see cellulosic ethanol. However I have my doubts about grain ethanol for a number of reasons.
To me the issue is not the water used by the ethanol plant but rather the irrigation/fertilyzer used in growing crops – especially in a semi-arid region like western Kansas.
It rains a lot in Minnisota; in fact rainfall is increasing with climate change. It does NOT rain much in western Kansas – and rainfall there is decreasing with the changes in the jet stream. (It’s ironic that we are so close to western KS and our rainfall is up. That is one of the quirks of the jet’s migration)
To the extent that supply/demand is influence the actions proposed will make things worse. We know that even with new drilling supply will only increase slightly. However, the message we are sending is that we plan to do NOTHING on the demand side of the equation.
We would be much better off if we acted swiftly to improve energy efficiencies, use more wind and nuclear, and conserve.
It is interesting to note that when Bush gave his speech oil prices shot UP.
Yeah Ben. I’d be a little more sympathetic to the use of water in processing if Russell hadnt teamed up with Hays to drain Cedar Bluff for their ethanol plant. And, make no mistake, the processing uses LOTs of water.
But I do agree, the even BIGGER problem is the irrigation/nutrients in the water supply, and and other issues with corn and sorghum grains that are harmful. And those are harmful to the precious and dwindling water supply whether the end product is used in ethanol or cattle feed. And the same holds true out here for soybeans, sunflowers, and canola used in biodiesel as well.
And did I mention they are ALL energy negative, not positive? heheheheh! It’s like spending a dime to save a penny.
And, as you know, I’m a BIG supporter of research and development, especially the kind funded by non-industry sources. I dont hate technology, but I also, as we say, dont appreciate someone whizzing on my leg and then trying to tell me it’s raining! When technology is ready for commercial or large scale application, let me know. But I’ve seen waaaay too much university generated technology sitting on a shelf waiting for someone to commercialize it or take it to the next step. The old SBIR grants used to be good, until the MIC guys and big pharma and Monsanto types took it over.
But I digress from the shifting rainfall patterns, the futility of growing irrigated grains in a desert, and our rapidly dwindling and irreplaceable water supply…
That’s why I always say the ethanol plants should be put where there is plentiful water, for both processing and grain. It would help slow the decline of the aquifer and surface water, and it would save on fuel costs by not having to truck the grains so far.
But the downside is, people live where there is water. And NIMBY is not just for breakfast anymore. Population centers dont want their water drained away either. It’s only popular where there is no water, and hence no people anyway. And in places that are so desperate they dont care HOW bad they ruin the quality of life.
However, like most trendy economic development schemes, now every little dying desert town out here thinks it NEEDS an ethanol plant. Here’s a tip.
It might bring a few bucks into a dying region in the short term, but in the long term? It wont stop the draining of the water supply. Unless folks out here want to drain not only their kid’s pocketbooks with the massive public debt we’re running up, AND they want to make sure NO ONE lives out here ’cause there’s no water…
They need to rethink the “wisdom” of both irrigation and ethanol in western Kansas.
“It is interesting to note that when Bush gave his speech oil prices shot UP.”
Well hell, put an oil man in the white house and one in the vp slot, and WTF did people THINK would happen?
Prices would go down?
hehehehehehheh. Only in Bizzaro World…
Yet statistic after statistic indicates demand is down. Plus, there are some local refinery employees who question the supply-side issue as well. And none of that takes into account growing evidence that speculation is fueling at least part of the price run-up
So from this perch, I’m still looking hard at speculation as a culprit. There are too many vagaries in the supply chain, and too many experts skeptical of its impact, for me to buy the supply and demand argument today.
“fall” together?
Prophetic? or accurate?
You decide.
ksfg – I think they are building one near Newton and thinking about making it cellulosic. An interesting co-location idea is with a solid waste/recycling facility. Then feed cellulosic waste to the etahnol plant.
And THAT would be energy-positive.
It’s an ICM test facility and it is nearby the Harvey County solid waste transfer station.
Heh Bill, so I repeat. Put a coupla oil men in charge and WTF did anyone expect?
I agree about the supply/demand hoax as well. I used to live in the Beaumont/Pt. Arthur area and my pals there on refinery row say the same thing. Whatever shortage there is on the supply side is manufactured. Seems that at least down there, the “invisible hand” isnt so invisible.
I think speculation is also the biggest culprit in the run-up in grain prices. Yes, world stocks have been at thirty year lows and world wide demand is up. However…
Wheat here is nine freakin’ dollars at harvest time! Usually this is when we see our lowest prices because everyone knows harvest is either in progress or about to start. And harvest quantities for wheat look good this year. Not great, but good.
So.. even the grain blogs like DTN say this run-up is the result of speculation, not users stocking up.
And what goes up… will come down. With inputs at triple of last year’s, mostly due to petroleum related products from tires to fertilizer to fuel, the farmers out here have much more at risk in every crop. Yeah, insurance and gummit programs mitigate the risk, but not entirely.
I feel a repeat of the late seventies, early eighties coming on. High prices, high inputs, land prices out of control, interest rates on the rise, credit crunches from failed or shaky financial institutions…
… and you have the perfect storm for auctions on the courthouse steps in 3-5 years.
Remind me sometime to explain my “airstream trailer theory”.
In short, there will be NO people out here. Just big corps owning MILES, not acres, of land. And it will all be farmed by 24 year old boys looking for adventure, like fire spotters and crab fishermen.
And they will be living in airstream trailers, with groceries, parts and supplies brought in three to four times per year.
And every trailer will be 100 miles apart.
Mark my words…
Unless the water runs out before then.
Oh, and I chose 100 miles for a reason. Colby is about 100 miles from Hays, Hays is about 100 miles from Salina. Goodland is about 100 miles from Phillipsburg, which is about 100 miles from Topeka. Dodge City is about 100 miles from Hays, and about what, a little over 100 miles from Wichita…
You get the picture. It isnt exact, and I hope like hell I’m wrong, but you dont need a crystal ball or handwriting on the wall to see how this will all shake out.
When the water and people are all gone, I have two words for ya.
Buffalo Commons.
hee hee hee.
And my “perch” as you said, is at ground zero. I’m not likin’ the view from here either! Even if I did lease my ground for oil last week…
Correct Bill. Perfect location as I noted. In addition, it is my understanding that it will use grey water for process water.
ICM is probably the most advanced ethanol company around.
And to your point, Ben, about the dangers of fertilizer, this is what happens to be the ultimate destination of the nitrates used on THIS side of the continental divide.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080620/ap_on_sc/sci_midwest_flooding_dead_zone;_ylt=ArXfIe18pNwdYEw2L.O9gToiANEA
Not to mention that it makes raw oysters dangerous to eat. Red algae has almost destroyed oystering along the gulf coast.
Now THAT makes me mad!
Actually ksfg – I think the big culprit in the dead zone is land use and farming practices that lead to too much erosion and direct runoff. If water flowed to streams via interflow or other sub-surface flow it would be filtered and carry much less in the way of contaminants. Also, the use of filter strips along riparian zones would help.
OK, folks. Time to get serious on a couple of issues.
KSFG, I didn’t dispute jwink because if I disputed every weird number from jwink, I wouldn’t get anything else done and people expect me to do other things. Suffice it to say, Jwink came up with 10 to 20 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol. Even the wild-eyed crazies back off at about 6 gallons. I don’t do a whole bunch of web research. I’m more the interview and government filings and papers type. But if you google ethanol and water use, you’ll find a gamut of stuff and the top end is about 6 gallons. I used 3 gallons from the latest presentations of the Kansas Bioscience Authority and the International Ethanol Fuel Workshop which ended today in Nashville.
Now, let’s deal with the discharge of “wet mass of stinking sour mash.”
Jwink, don’t know where you live, but modern technology is contained affluent and dry distillers grain. Dry means dry. And it doesn’t get fed to pigs, because it contains fat and fiber and their single chamber stomachs can’t digest that. KSFG, that’s some of my “non-shill” research that didn’t come from press releases.
It’s cattle feed and comprises about one-third of the corn or grain sorghum taken in.
KSFG: The “Steve Miller” stuff is getting a little out of hand. I apologize to Steve that he was the tour guide that walked me through the plant when I came out to do on-site research and interview people which resulted in him being quoted. Jason somebody (MIT guy) I’m sorry you didn’t get credit for your research in the blog world.
One more time. It’s NOT Sunflower’s project. It belongs to NISTAC, the National Insitute for Strategic Technology Application and Research, which is by the way, a K-State affiliate. The Kansas Bioscience Authority put money into the pilot. Sunflower agreed to make a donation, be the site and partner in the project. BTH, Nistac says they are doing everything possible to move ahead. Let’s hope we see algae research in southwestern Kansas.
Correction to buswriter: I’ve been doing a bunch of online research and it appears your 90 percent of corn grown for ethanol is NOT under irrigation is wrong. The number should be 96 percent. And yes, KSFG, that is a Nationwid number and your point about desert country is well taken.
It does mean that cash customers have to pay the credit card price. Some retailers offer a discount for cash. The problem is that credit cards are so darned convenient.
The idea is to get retailers to create a pricing structure that accurately reflects their own cost of doing business. When consumers are able to control the competitive environment for credit card activities then card companies will become more interested in taking care of consumers. The retailer is caught in the middle.
Moodenbaugh’s a very bitter man for someone who’s not so old. Wichita isn’t the first, and won’t be the last town he’s run out of, I’m sure.
So PJ, your position has gone from “commercially viable” to “Let’s hope we see algae research in southwestern Kansas.”
Cool. I think that’s the point. It is research, and miller and neufeld et al are blowing smoke up our collective hineys when they make it sound like the magic algae is ready to go. It’s not.
You are indeed correct about the gamut of figures regarding how many gallons of water it takes to produce one gallon of ethanol. Industry shills go with the low end three gallons figure, and Wink is not far off on his 8-10 gallons for some plants. Every plant is different, but I found this from ABC news. It is on the high end at 15 gallons. And it does not include irrigation, etc. which, in southwest Kansas and apparently Minnesota is a real issue. Maybe in Illinois and Iowa not so much, but certainly it is in Kansas.
“A longtime analyst of ethanol production disagreed with Martin and questioned his figures, saying it takes an average of about 15 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol much higher than the roughly three gallons of water per gallon of ethanol Martin cited.
Groundwater tables in some states, including Missouri, have been drawn down to dangerously low levels near some ethanol plants, said David Pimentel, an ecology and agriculture professor at Cornell University.
The figures cited by both Martin and Pimentel include only a plant’s production of ethanol, not the water it takes to grow corn. After adding that, about 1,700 gallons are needed to produce every gallon of ethanol, Pimentel said.
The entire water-use picture, coupled with the fuel it takes to produce ethanol, makes long-term, mass production of ethanol unsustainable, Pimentel said.
“I wish it were sustainable, I’m an agriculturalist,” he said. “I wish this whole ethanol deal was a major benefit, but you’ve got to be a scientist first and an agriculturalist second.”
I encourage readers to indeed google “ethanol + water usage” and read the information for yourself. Obviously industry shills want folks to think water is no big deal, and water activists like me want you to know it is a very big deal.
I’m also unimpressed with the “yeah, but ethanol doesnt use as much water as (fill in the blank)” arguments. There is already a shortage of water in all of western Kansas, but especially in southwest Kansas. Water sucking industries are not sustainable. And, as Wink noted, ethanol pollutes groundwater too, as you will find if you google as suggested.
Wink generally has his stuff correct when it comes to water issues.
I’m sorry you and I got off on the wrong foot PJ. However, I’ve been reading your ethanol stuff for quite some time, and it makes me LIVID when you only quote industry sources. I thought “fair and balanced” was the standard for journalists. I know how important ag is to Kansas (note my nic) but Kansas will be nothing but a Buffalo Commons if people here dont wake up.
Or, maybe, paraphrasing Sting, we should hope that Kansans love their children too. Why piss, moan and sigh about economic development when NO development, or population, is sustainable without water.
Oh, and here’s a link to the ABC News article I used. It’s less than a year old.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=3465919
And for those too lazy to use the google…
http://www.google.com/search?q=ethanol+%2B+water+usage&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
And gee, I guess THESE guys “I used 3 gallons from the latest presentations of the Kansas Bioscience Authority and the International Ethanol Fuel Workshop which ended today in Nashville” wouldnt have a vested interest in getting the public, via the press, to believe water is a non-issue, now would they?
heheheheh….
And as for the steve miller thing, I see you have fallen under his charming and well spoken spell. Dont feel bad. Most press people do. But remember, he’s shilling too. He is a PR guy, not a scientist or environmentalist. And he’s a very good PR guy. As a scientist? Well, he’s a great PR guy.
When he stops lying and misleading, I’ll stop holding him accountable for it, and when you research and verify what he tells you, I’ll get off your back about shilling for him.
Deal?
Ben, I obviously defer to your expertise on all matters relating to science, but my understanding is that once nitrates enter the water supply, there isnt much that will filter it out. It can be used up, as with the red algae blooms, but I dont think it’s filtered. If you see this and you have time, can you expound a bit?
I agree about groundwater issues with nitrogen. A LOT of folks out here have to haul their potable water, or become a member of a rural water district, not because they dont have enough water, but because they have unsafe levels of nitrates in their ground water. That comes either from nitrogen leaching out of fields, or from leaching from confined animal operations.
And once it’s in there, to use MY scientific term, “yer screwed”!
We all think our ground water is pristine. As Wink always points out, it isnt always so. Giardia (sp?) has become a groundwater and surface water problem for folks out here, as are nitrates, and oil field contamination. The oil field problems were generally created long ago with inefficient and unsafe well plugging, but it still happens today. And the more we drill, the more of those problems we will have.
Maybe industry, from ethanol to confined animals to petroleum exploration and production, actually WANT people to literally “get the hell outa Dodge”.
That way they dont have to worry about polluting or draining the water supply…
Deer and pheasant and prairie dogs dont vote!
Would someone care to address this?
“The “economics” of ethanol would be VERY different if big corn, big irrigation, and ethanol production were NOT being heavily subsidized by YOUR tax dollars. If ethanol had to truely pay its way, consumers would not be saving money at the pump.”
Where is Karl when we need him?
ksfg – nitrate has a half-life in groundwater of about 3 years. It gets used in place of oxygen as an electron acceptor by facultative anaerobe bacteria. So, as long as an aquifer is functioning properly it should not build up – IF we are not overloading the system. In surface water nitrate can be used by a number of things – especially in a wetland. That is why I am such a hawk on wetland preservation and filterstrips.
pg – I am glad you seem to be recognizing that algae is still experimental. Take it from another ‘MIT guy’ that is still has a long way to go. Wind is a LOT further along – I can take you to functioning wind farms all over the world. And, wind IS reliable if done right – that is, wind farms rather than isolated turbines. It is always blowing SOMEWHERE.
The reason for the connection between algae and Sunflower is the BOGUS claims that were made last year that the algae plant would make Sunflower’s expansion at Holcomb essentially carbon-neutral. Morris and Neufield were deliberately lying with that claim. Thus my challenge – demonstrate algae in the similar coal plant already at Holcomb.
A concern about the residue as cattle feed. I read somewhere that there has been an increase in Salmonella associated with that. I don’t know whatever came of that but it would seem to be a concern – especially with wet cake. I always worry about what might ‘grow’ in such an environment. We have found in the past that messing around with animal feed can lead to undesirable unintended consequences.
ksfg, I think the “filter” that Ben is referring to in reference to riparian strips is that planting trees (or better yet brushy bushes with extensive, relatively shallow root systems) next to surface streams adjacent to farmland helps prevent runoff of nutrients into the streams bcause they soak up the nutrients before they hit the water. It’s not exactly filtration in the classic sense, but the result is the same.
Correct pg – ‘filter strip’ is a land-use term. As little as just some tall grass along a stream to as much as an entire wetland system.
You’re not alone! Facebook – I get. Blogging – I get. Twitter? What’s the point? Who has time for it?
Good work! You now have all the realtors in town wondering if it’s them who is “not so nice”!
The question I ahve is one of fairness: Is it appropriate to tax businesses OUTSIDE of Old Town to subsidize their competition IN Old Town? What ever happened to the idea of the private sector being the private sector?
Interesting to note on another thread that the QuikTrip adjacent to that booming area feels it needs to shut down to protect its people when the bars close. Makes me wonder if these tax-supported bars are really helping adjacent business areas.
You know what I always say.
Economic development, as practiced in Kansas today, is the BIGGEST hoax ever perpetrated on the taxpayer.
I recall downtown Wichita so well in 1996-97 when I moved to Wichita. Even though downtown was on the fence, it did still have occupancy in some of the buildings that are now vacant or nearly vacant.
The little known secret about Wichita’s downtown is that many of the imposing office buildings are basically empty except perhaps a few tenants on the first floors.
I hoped to become involved somehow as a volunteer to renew downtown Wichita in some logical manner.
But high paid elected county commissioners and high paid hired gun gurus mostly from southeastern states got here first. Eventually with taxpayers wallets in their hands, they turned downtown Wichita into a shambles by proposing the unwanted, unneeded white elephant downtown arena.
Now after the initial parties are over, the balloons and grafetti have fallen, the self-congratulatory dinners are finished, the going away parties held for the departing “hired guns,” the up-front cash spent …. all we will have for probably a billion dollars of wasted tax money is an ugly dangerous glass arena WITHOUT a regular tenant. Really really bad business and most taxpayers never even got a free cup of coffee out of the deal.
Additionally, the arena site eliminates the needed 500 car parking lot for the downtown railroad station in the event Wichita does get the north-south Amtrak “Flyer” train from Texas to Newton and onto the regular Amtrak east-west lines.
The list of the former arena cheerleaders is long. But now many, but not all, have left Wichita for greener pastures.
Now renewing downtown Wichita will be extremely difficult because of the white elephant arena and its demands for rogue parking.
Please tell me it was Intrust Bank because I too check my balance everyday and it was a mess!! And I’m not even a Gen Xer.
Sorry, Bill Wilson, you don’t get a prize for your editorial above, “$2 a gallon gas?” And your offer to dance down Douglas if it does happen. Reminds me of the dance Hitler reportedly did at his birthday party in the Bunker shortly before he wisely committed suicide as the Russians arrived at the front door.
In other words, $2/gallon gas would be welcome to individual American consumers but the wrong solution for the future of America.
With $2 gasoline, Americans would resume the race to consume its non-renewable energy resources at a fantastic rate. Americans would probably consume much of the domestic oil from various American reserves leaving this nation open to attacks from countries that still have petroleum in the future. No lessons would be learned about the value of conservation of energy resources and VIABLE alternative sources as opposed to Congressman Jerry Moran’s diatribe on this mornings EAGLE editorial page.
So, Bill Wilson try again. If you are trying to develop your editorial skills, try writing about the value of conservation of energy usage.
Do you really think any serious alternative energy discussion is possible given the substantial influence Big Oil exerts over the government?
Happy birthday Jerry – and I really believed you were just 39. I should take the cake back
This is what they do on my night job, and it works well. After 7 years on the job, I have close to $30,000 (more if I hadn’t taken three loans on it).
“Those not represented by a union who start work at Boeing after Jan. 1 will have a defined benefit savings plan”
Are you sure you are not referring to a defined CONTRIBUTION plan?
It sounds good, but I hope it goes better than all the failed proposals for small businesses to band together in pools and buy health insurance.
Good to hear. Honestly, how much direct mail that you receive in the mailbox is truly useful or even wanted? I’d say it’s less than 5% for me personally. The rest ends up in the recycling bin.
Is there any of this year’s corn crop that isn’t underwater?
I really hope these guys can make something positive of the WWW mess. I think most people in the Wichita area were interested and excited about the prospects of a family entertainment venue; Etheredge just couldn’t make it happen. Hopefully AHG Group will do it right.
Out of all the blogs the Wichita Eagle has, this is by far the best one. Thanks for taking the time to blog, I really enjoy it.
In rural areas there is even something better – Community Wind. The idea (K-State) is to build a local wind farm in an area controlled by the members of a sort of cooperative. Then, rather than just buying their power together, they actually make it.
K-State – through its existing extension program – has been working in this area.
Hey, I wonder if some kind of similar shared arrangement could be organized for residential natural gas users. I notice my natural gas bills have been increasing. Or to be more accurate, my “EPP settlement amount” after payment of my monthly flat fee has been increasing … so I have to pay several hundred more dollars to “catch up.”
I went back and analyzed my bills over the past year. It appears my usage is remaining fairly constant for similar months give or take a little for different weather. The difference appears to be from higher costs Kansas Gas Service is paying for the natural gas. Is anybody trying to put the brakes on this?
I would like to know more about this purchase arrangement. Who does Kansas Natural Gas purchase the natural gas from … is it directly from the producer? Or is a middle man in the picture? Does our natural gas come from the Hugoton gas fields in southwestern Kansas? Are various electrical power companies competing with us residential users for this natural gas thereby driving the costs up?
Can we trust and depend on our natural gas supplier, in my case Kansas Gas Service Co., a subsidiary of Oneok Company in Oklahoma, to actually try to give us a good deal? Does this natural gas monopoly come under the surveillance of our Kansas Utilities Commission or whatever its called?
Anybody know anything about this?
A vital downtown core is essential to the success of Wichita. The pieces are being put into place — Old Town, new arena, Waterwalk. Sometimes the city needs to pitch in and ease the way for investment.
Just how many over-priced bars can we support?
Waterwalk? How many years behind schedule is that project?
Couple of important distinctions, I think – first, the city’s refusal to fully fund WaterWalk five years ago is one of the big reasons why it’s not fully developed.
Second, the other high-profile city-funded projects involve more than just bars.
History tells us, I think, that downtown Wichita was dead in a free development market. So it’s difficult for me to fault the city for taking a proactive role helping downtown redevelop.
Bill Wilson is far more informed and interesting than I had realized before Business Casual. Reading his different perspective on Brent’s article gives value to them both, and the Eagle.
This issue isn’t new to the history of Wichita or to any major city in the United States. Downtown’s in every major city died beginning in the early 1980’s. The reason was suburban sprawl and shopping malls.
Cities left not knowing what to do with their cores deteriorating. After several decades they found the way, which is bringing entertainment and living, but they had to shell out the dough to do it. We are not alone and this isn’t nothing new.
KC, OKC, Dallas and the list goes on. They are all doing it. Public financing is crucial for the turn around.
A Wichita radio station reported today the historic and dramatic Minisa Bridge next to North High School reopened on a partial basis. I wonder what “partial” means when it comes to the bridge?
Over the weekend, Riverside Cafe was accepting colored glass for the decorative design on the bridge so I dropped some glass pieces off there. I hope they get incorporated into the bridge design. And, personally, I find the Riverside business community to be casual, friendly and comfortable.
I don’t think its predestined that all central business districts are eventually going to become dinosaurs. I think some do because many elected politicians think they have a “wonderful vision” that will save the business district. Perhaps they are right or wrong, who knows. But what is important is to obtain “buy-in” from the people who will pay the bill, the taxpayers. And I don’t mean a few minutes of listening at the water fountain, or doughnut shop or to the waitress at a local restaurant.
In Wichita, I have only seen one “politician” who would stand up and listen to some extent. That was School Superintendent Winston Brooks, now gone to Albuquerque. Unfortunately his assistants at headquarters have circled their wagons to block and resist public input.
If politicians don’t like to communicate with taxpayers, they should get out because they are contributing to failure. I suggest that our holdover Sedgwick county commissioners, Unruh, Winters and Norton are in this category. They are basically in it for the paycheck and not because they like to talk to the voters and taxpayers.
Also, I believe most of the present Wichita City Council are in the same non-communicative category.
Sitting behind their respective official barricades like tin horn judges doesn’t do it.
Wichita suffers from NO BUY-IN BY THE WICHITA VOTERS AND TAXPAYERS. No matter how glorious and glamorous the project, such as “old town,” the public won’t go for it if no initial buy-in.
I’m not particularly familiar with public financing of the downtowns of Oklahoma City and Dallas mentioned by WE Blogger “ictBest” above. But I believe there are many business districts that are successful without much if any public financing. Off hand, I’m thinking of the great Country Club Plaza, downtown Lawrence, Kansas, downtown Olathe, downtown Independence, Mo. I understand Eureka, California where I once worked for the U.S. Forest Service is going well. So is Panama City, Florida, and probably lots of other cities that I can’t think of right now.
But Wichita is continuing to run the wrong way at full speed by hiring a city manager who has never shown propensity to actually communicate with regular tax-paying citizens. Its going to be another case of unilaterally deciding what “we, the citizens” want and throwing millions of our hard-earned tax dollars at it.
THEN, AS USUAL, FLEEING WICHITA ON THE NEXT TRAIN.
I agree with a proactive approach to downtown development but I sarcastically ask, where is downtown?
Waterwalk/Hyatt/Century II is too far away from the proposed arena which is too far away from the Old Town/Warren theater area. Until those “dots” become easily connected (personally I would love to see something like a monorail downtown connecting all of this, along with Exploration Place, the Wichita Art Museum and VERY LARGE PARKING LOTS!) I unfortunately have a “divided we fall” mentality on all of it.
I don’t think it has to be too far away, Jerry, but knowing Wichita as a lifer, I suspect you’re probably right.
Wichitans aren’t going to walk anywhere, so you’d hope that the joint city-county arena redevelopment effort produces some sort of downtown mass transit.
It’s funny, actually, how allergic Wichitans are to walking. If you’ve ever been to a major sporting event, you know that the distances between the downtown attractions are a short walk compared to the stroll through a Super Bowl parking lot, for example.
Dan, I totally agree with you. The ones complaining the most about arena parking have probably never been outside Wichita, let alone to a major sports/concert venue elsewhere. Walking a few blocks is actually a good thing. Chances are, it’s not going to kill you, and maybe, as you walk, you might find a new restaurant, gallery or other interesting shop that you never knew existed as you blew by it many times in your car. I can’t wait for the arena to open, and I know that it will bring enhanced development and vitality to the vicinity.
When did “incentivize” become a word?
Oops, Merriam-Webster Online tells me: 1970. Still sounds odd to me.
And, back on the original topic…
I don’t think those things are outside of walking distance. I have walked from my office on Market St. over to the Old Mill for lunch and it took just a few minutes. It was a hot day and it was still pleasant. And I have walked a lot farther than that when visiting Chicago or New York. As mentioned about, we just need to get into the habit of walking more!
Couldn’t agree more. During visits to Denver, I’ve attended some Rockies games at Coors Field and in one of their lots adjacent to the railyards, you could potentially park over a mile away at its most remote point. Yet people still park there (albeit in smaller numbers this season thanks to them going in the tank). They also do a great job of utilizing remote park-n-ride lots throughout the metro area served by their transit authority. You park closer to your home, pay less than parking next to the stadium, get on a bus right outside of the stadium, and let someone else drive. I don’t think we need more parking for the arena. What we do need is people willing to look at the availability of existing parking and be willing to walk, and also for our transit agency to work with arena officials to develop a similar park-n-ride system. If people took a serious look around the country at downtown arenas/ public gathering facilities elsewhere, they would realize that this is a dead issue elsewhere and that people actually do walk nowadays. An amazing concept.
The problem with parking is that it will be a hodge podge for parking. Chances are that you will have to drive to numerous locations just to find an opening. Throw in January when it is 10 below outside with wind and you will begin to see the problem. The centers that you mention have on-site parking and though the distance may seem far, the driver will not spend alot of driving to different locations trying to find a spot. The arena was to be built with parking, to say that we should accept whatever is myopic at best.
If downtown is so great, why can’t it even support a movie theater? Even a new theater that everyone wants to check out but don’t go back.
Downtown has the police station, SRS, federal prison work/release, county jail, homeless, city hall, etc. I prefer to drive to a very nice part of Wichita or stay close to home where I might see someone I know.
Until Wichita gets rid of the crack houses and someone makes affordable condos – out of the failed hotels – people only feel safe there when there are major events, riverfest, chilifest…
How about the arena costing more that 3x the $ in one year. Who did the estimating – another outside ‘consultant’ that doesn’t know the difference from Hilltop and Vickeridge, 9th and Grove, 21st and Broadway?
What happened to my well thought out, carefully expressed comments that I entered on this blog thread last night and this morning? Is the EAGLE practicing some sort of filtering of blogger comments? Perhaps my comments, as great as they were, did not fit into the prescribed filter established by EAGLE blog management? Are we seeing the future of journalism right here in River City?
If we had decent transit it would make a difference – we don’t.
I agree with the comment above abou a hodgepodge – this will cause people to ‘wander around’ looking for parking in a disorganized fashion. IF they can find a way to coordinate parking and IF they can create a pleasant walking environment they might make this work.
On the other hand, if parking is not needed then why did they promise they would build parking in the first place?
Carl Brewer claimed that Gander Mountain is a success and is making money. Perhaps he should visit the investment site http://www.morningstar.com and check ticker GMTN. They are losing money big time.
Why are comments removed from this blog? Was I out of line or inappropriate in some manner?
No parking may be a good thing for you, Dan. You’re a fine physical specimen in your prime, eh? Many of us are not in top physical condition, and the aging population will BOOM in the next few years. There will be arthritis, diabetes complications and heart disease prohibiting these aging Baby Boomers from walking very far. And think of the wasted gas and additional pollution from people blasting from block to block trying to find a parking space as time ticks away toward the start of the show. How’s ole Ron Holt’s plan for park-and-ride coming along, anyway? Have you actually heard one iota of planning for that?
Jerry … It was nothing you did. I’m told by our Web gurus that a technical glitch wiped out some comments. They were able to retrieve some and unable to get others back. Keep posting and hopefully it won’t happen again.
If a general cross-section look at the average Wichitan is any indication, a good, brisk walk from the arena to your car several blocks away has to be a good thing.
I echo the other comments…just about every other city I’ve been to where a sporting/arts event is held, you walk several blocks to/from your auto. A parking garage will solve all that ails ya? No way. You’ll be sitting in a line to get out of the concrete bunker while I’m in my car several blocks away, heading home.
Jerry, we’ve had some issues with legitimate blog comments being filtered out by our software. They are being addressed by the blog administrators.
As someone who’s earned parking in a garage to attend college football games annually at a major Division 1 school, Dan is absolutely right. Unless the game is a rout, the garages are impossible to exit and frankly are a bigger irritant to me than any walk.
I’d advise anyone on this thread who objects to walking to avoid attending any major sporting event: Super Bowl, World Series, BCS Championship Game, NASCAR, etc.
The prime slots are reserved for corporate sponsors. The general public walks. And walks. And walks …
I believe Mike Norman. At least I think the hedge fund trading is a substantial part of the price issue. The problem is that oil commodity trading is a global event. If U.S. legislators should try to affect the way commodity trades in oil are handled by the NYMEX, the traders would simply switch to the International Commodity Exchange in London, or one of the other foreign exchanges. Trying to corral all of the world commodity markets would be next to impossible.
I’ll bet that very few people and very few legislators have a firm handle on how commodity speculation works. All of the fixes proposed so far are like swinging a ball bat at that which is visible. None will have any effect.
Bill, how about doing an article on the details of how commodity trading and speculation work? How do purchases on the margin work? How does one win at the game? How is it possible to lose? What can cause the bubble of the speculators to burst? Exactly what procedure is used now by the hedge fund traders? What does it mean to see that the large speculators are net long on crude and the commercial hedgers are net short?
You just never know.
I remember reading a report about how many cities could support a pro team. They broke it down to each sport (baseball, basketball, football and hockey). They gave a percentage to likely hood they could support a pro team in each category for the top 75 cities in the USA.
The surprising thing is that Wichita actually had a 100% rating for a pro football team. I’m assuming the reason is that we don’t have a college football presence, which would kill the chances of pro football doing well in cities like OKC, Omaha and Birmingham, which has very strong college football presence.
I guess they figured the million + people in a 100 mile radius of Wichita as well. It was an interesting report.
Although I seriously doubt that the NFL would ever consider small market teams, such as Greenbay and Buffalo ever again. They are trying to expand internationally, so the chances are very dim.
The cool thing is that Wink has the guts to do something. That I really admire about him. He’s a great Wichitian.
“Arena parking will be just fine.” What parking? NO parking is provided for the new downtown arena.
Of course, parking will be available up and down nearby alleys between trash containers. Or in private parking spaces and take a chance on being towed away. Or pay for parking in private lots with no guarantee that anyone will be watching your car.
Any private owner of a similar theater, arena, convention center would be required by the local Planning and Zoning Board to provide at least one parking space per two seats. For example, the great old Kansas Coliseum has a great parking arrangement, some 5,000 (+) parking spaces for some 10,000 seats … all carefully arranged in a radius around the arena, all on ground surface level for easiest possible access.
In fact, I understand downtown arena planners are considering using the Kansas Coliseum parking lot for satellite parking with shuttle buses to downtown for a price, of course. After discharging passengers within two or three blocks of the downtown arena, the 300 shuttle buses would proceed to Lawrence-Dumont Stadium parking UNLESS a baseball game is going on; then to downtown library parking lots UNLESS the library is open; then to the Municipal Airport parking lots UNLESS of course they are in use by airline passengers.
On the basis of about 14,000 seats at the new downtown arena, the arena should provide a MINIMUM OF 7,000 PEA GREEN VINYL SEATS. You might recall the color was selected by holdover county commissioners, Tom Winters, Dave Unruh and Tim Norton, after traveling around the country on fact finding tours, to provide event attendees a good seating experience.
Wait, I have an idea. Why not dismantle the new downtown arena and use the site for a large parking lot for the historic old Union Railroad Station for its new life as an AMTRAK railroad station. It could also be used for a shuttle parking lot for a renovated Kansas Coliseum.
If taxpayers had the choice, I would most would choose the historic old Broadview Hotel for subsidy rather than Bill Warren’s new Old Town theater.
Broadview Hotel was built sometime in the early 1920’s and owned for a time by Wichita’s greatest general contractor, George Siedhoff.
Broadview Hotel overlooked “Island Park” on its west, surrounded by the Arkansas River. The park contained an early wooden baseball stadium and even a roller coaster. On the east side of Waco was the Union Pacific Railroad Station which offered a direct connection to the Arkansas Valley Interurban (AVI) through the archway still visible on east side of the Broadview Hotel. AVI’s headquarters and trolley line center was on the west side of the Broadview.
Below the Broadview was a large restaurant said to contain some 200 seats. This is reputed to have been a “speakeasy” during the years of prohibition.
A coffee cup sign was on the south side of the Broadview advertising its coffee shop entrance which must have beckoned executives from the Koch Engineering Company located on the south side of Douglas in the 1950’s and 1960’s.
The top floor contained a roof gardens restaurant and ballroom. Imagine the 1940’s music of Glenn Miller, the notes of Stardust and String of Pearls, wafting over the streets of Wichita on a warm summer evening.
Which would you choose for help from your tax dollars?
Congratulations on your projects and the nickname, “Wink,” that we somehow share. Jerry Winkelman
I was in a hurry in my above comment. In the second paragraph from the bottom, I should have said, “On the basis of about 14,000 pea green vinyl seats at the new downtown arena, a minimum of 7,000 automobile parking spaces should have been provided on site, at grade level, surrounding the arena building.” The purpose of course would be for easy ingress/egress, for weather and safety purposes if nothing else.
Phil Boyer has done more for General Aviation than any other person on the face of the earth, short of Clyde Cessna. There are only about 600,000 licensed pilots in the country and Boyer can count 400,000 of them as members. What other organization can count two-thirds of industry participants as members?
General Aviation suffers from the law of numbers; meaning that the number of GA people is too small to be heard. Boyer has done an outstanding job of making a small number have the voice of a huge number. He has made a science of getting the general public to see the value of GA.
On top of that, he is a genuinely nice guy. The entire aviation community will miss him. Craig Fuller has a huge pair of shoes to fill.
Awesome!
I think there will be some spill over effect. Great news for us.
The arena is looking good. They put it in the right place. Wichita is big enough to be a major league city. Both good and bad things come from being big. Wichita already has all of the bad things.
We shall see. I stand by my predictions that this thing will require large subsidies from the taxpayers. It will be interesting to see the fireworks when they have to come to the Commission to get them.
Dan: right on.
I have been to Cardinals, Rams, Predators, and Colts, and Titans games. All are downtown arenas. All were great experiences, compared to Arrowhead, & Royals. It is great to see small groups of people walking on downtown streets. In STL people stop by the restaurants/bars for a pre-event dinner, happy hour. It is a wonderful bonding where people sharing the same interest gather together and walk together to the event. Laughter and good spirited conversations bring the streets alive, which is what our downtown needs.
It’s like comparing an earthquake to a tornado, heck, they’re both disasters, just of a different magnitude.
How about a pix of Bill and the other reporters?
I think you’re right, Bill. The supply-and-demand argument is a farce. My wife and I have been carpooling for some time now, leaving one of our two cars parked in the garage everyday. All of my friends and co-workers are taking steps to conserve fuel. Simple question no one can answer: If the high prices really are tied to rising demand yet everyone in my world, and most likely yours, has reduced their demand in some way, then why haven’t prices fallen? Further, why hasn’t the press, local or national, been more aggressive in taking the oil industry and other players involved to task on the subject? … What happened to journalists’ mantra to “comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable?”
It’s a legitimate question, perhaps a topic for a later blog. As someone who’s been in journalism for a quarter-century – boy, am I old – the performance of the national media, both print and electronic, in the past several years is as disappointing to me as anything I’ve observed in the business.
Chuckle. For those of you who’ve been concerned about censorship on this blog, I can tell you that my response to mcs’ post just got zapped by the spam filter.
Suppose there’s any hidden meaning in being zapped from your own thread?
Anyway, back to MCS’ point about journalism: It’s a great one, I’m sorry to say.
I’ve been doing this for 26 years – boy, am I old – and I’ve found nothing in the industry as disappointing as the national media’s, print and electronic included, failure to be anything more than cheerleaders over the past several years.
Greikspoor, defending ethanol?
Color me shocked…
The only surprise here is that it took her so long to do it!
And just for the record, the cost of my chicken feed this year has more than tripled. I’m no fan of Tyson, but facts are facts. It went from a little over three dollars a bag to over ten dollars a bag.
I’m rethinking having broilers next year, and I just raise them for myself and my friends. Imagine what big ag will do.
Ten dollar whole chickens. Coming soon to a store near you. Is it ethanol’s fault? Not entirely. But it certainly plays a role.
Thanks for mentioning the spam filter. It does seem that speculation is playing a major part. But isn’t this something like Enron and the stockmarket?
On a recent blog thread relating to ethanol, there was considerable debate about how much water is used for the manufacture of ethanol and for the irrigation of the corn used for the ethanol process.
I have been told recently that we really don’t know how much water is being pumped out of our deep underground aquifers. The reason? The state of Kansas has only one or two inspectors traveling around the state checking the water pumps and resulting records on thousands and thousands of water withdrawal pumps.
More importantly the Kansas Geological Survey and water district records show the aquifer levels are generally dropping. This is particularly true in western Kansas where practically no recharge of these aquifers takes place due to the depth and cover by many feet of limestone.
For me, a marker was the former artisan springs that jumped out of the ground to feed the Meade County State Lake. I understand these springs which were forced up from the Ogallala aquifer … are no longer running water because of the lowering of the aquifer.
For Kansans who are proud of our state and want it to continue as we have known it in the past, draining these aquifers for a temporary usage to manufacture ethanol is a complete violation of our Kansas environment. We don’t want our state to once again become part of the Great American Desert.
Well, since Enron officials apparently were involved in the creation of the loophole that’s allowing unregulated speculation, the irony of your question doesn’t escape me, Lonny.
Look up Brad Pitt, Lonny.
I’m a dead ringer for him.
Bring back Louie!
I have a website with photos of Joyland. The spam filter won’t let me post the URL, but if you click on my user name above it will open the site. You can also find it by doing a Google search for “remember joyland”.
Nick
I have a website with photos of Joyland. The spam filter won’t let me post the URL, but if you click on my user name above it will open the site. You can also find it by doing a Google search for “remember joyland”.
Nick
P.J. Griekspoor, EAGLE environment reporter: I wish you would do a turn around and see the dangers to Kansas, America and the world from production of ethanol. Then use your powerful position to affect public opinion … for the good … by studying and publicizing the real dangers of ethanol production.
P.J., you have the opportunity to do good, shine a light on the bad guys and save the world. Will you do it?
They are 2 entirely different situations. As it was explained to me last evening, the “mistake” with the Warren deal is that when the tax increment financing (tif) was set up roughly 10 years ago the Warren was counted as a whopping 75% of the base. There were other options to the city but none as favorable as the low interest loans. It ensures that the Warren continues paying all of those taxes for the district plus pays back the recent loans approved by the city. I did take some comfort in finding out the recent loans are personally guaranteed.
Obviously, the City is not in that kind of predicament with the Broadview. It is a stand alone situation and should rise or fall on its own merits.
At the end of the day I would personally prefer less government interaction with businesses.
Wichita has a shortage of downtown hotel rooms. We have a surplus of theater seats and overpriced bars.
bth: I’ll add to your list … Wichita also has a city manager, school superintendent and so-called downtown development executive SHORTAGE.
I disagree jwink. I still think they should try to talk Flentje into staying on permanently. Similarly with the other positions – they can be filled locally.
In the case of the city manager, do not concur.
The long term answer, of course, is to put in strong mayor after the 2011 elections… after we get rid of the current weak mayor, of course.
Mr. Controversy: How do you propose to structure a “strong mayor” position in Wichita. For example, would there still be a city manager and, if so, would he report to the city council or to the mayor?
Of course, a fellow like Pat Salerno would not agree to report to one person, the strong mayor, because his job could be more tenuous than with a seven member city council.
What about the county government? Wouldn’t your change be a good time to consolidate many overlapping city/county offices? I believe some form of this has been put in place in Kansas City, Kansas and Wyandotte County. I am curious how this is organized.
A fellow from Wichita, formerly a spokesman for Wichita, left here a few years ago to take a similar position with the KCK/Wyandotte County unified government. Perhaps he has some ideas on this. Sorry I can’t think of his name right now.
bth: Although I have never met Mr. Flentje, he appears to be his own man and a professional city manager type. I agree. I hope the city council attempts to keep him on to settle the dust from this failed Salerno deal and to learn from the mistakes that were made.
Learning from mistakes? Too much to ask from this council, JWink.
Don’t forget another corporate raider, Carl Icahn “raided” TWA airlines, a company that had strong roots, if not its birth, in Kansas … an amazing basically unknown story. Perhaps with a toss of the coin in 1932, Wichita, the Air Capitol, could have been the corporate headquarters of TWA.
But in any event, thanks to Carl Icahn’s inept management of TWA, it is no more.
Why do I worry that T. Boone Pickens “management” might do the same to development of wind power.
I don’t mean any disrespect, but those of you supporting keeping Flentje in the office obviously have not tried to work with him. He needs to leave immediately — and go back to teaching or whatever. He has not been a good city manager — we simply need to move quickly to find a competent professional to take the job.
It pleases me that our sanitary sewer water is send down river to Oklahoma. However,it displeases me that we receive dirty air back up from Oklahoma.
It didn’t make sense to me and I appreciate the clarification. Regretfully, some criticized Ms Griekspoor for providing the information.
Great Atlanta Journal story on Wichita. All of our NO GUNS signs does give us back a wild west reputation. And our airport has a special checking for hunters with guns? Wild West Wichita.
We shouldn’t ignore our own corruption simply because it may be less severe, in your opinion, than that of another city.
Dan Voorhis: I’m confused by your last sentence above.
Is “boarder” Spanish for one who hauls boards? Or were you thinking of someone who lives in a boarding house? Or did you mean “crossing the broad” in place of “crossing the boarder” … that could be trouble anywhere. Or were you possibly refering to the “border” or boundary between two states or countries?
Wait … I thought the three holdover Sedgwick County Commissioners are building a airplane mechanics training school some ten miles east of downtown Wichita at suburban Jabara airport … to retain Wichita’s airplane builders here in Wichita.
This “guarantee,” of course, was provided by millions of our tax dollars generously furnished by County Commissioners Unruh, Norton and Winters directly from billfolds of hard-working Sedgwick County taxpayers.
The decision was made to fund the education of airplane mechanics over nurses, teachers and other equally needed disciplines. This was claimed by the Florida-based Visioneering program to “retain” Wichita’s portion of the airplane building industry … here in Wichita.
I was feeling pretty good about Moore myself… until I saw this.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the two-year-old attitude the “business community” takes. Everything has to be all about them. What about the real people of Wichita?
I think Mr. Moore can do a good job… but I think we would all feel better if Gary Rebenstorf, Cathy Holderman and a few others were no longer there.
Moore is fair to employees. So much so that I am surprised that the business community also likes him. He’s been running all the operations of the city for three years. That’s a lot of employees and employee groups.
And fair dealing from Scott. He will support an employee over management if he feels the employee is right.
I’m not entirely sure that journalists are human but I do believe they drink beer. I do agree that Eagle staffers are very easy to work although there does seem to be less and less of them all the time.
And what is this about him uncovering an $800,000.00 extortion ring in Ellsworth?
Just went I thought there was a good blog for a change, the leftist over at the WE Blog are now starting to migrate and put there two cents over here. *sigh* I guess it’s just the way it is. It’s life!
Beside that. I always thought it would be the best decision for the City Council to promote from within, even before they found Kolb. Should people like Scott Moore remain an assistant for the rest of his life, because only (City Managers) from other cities is the best possible fit?
Promote him!
Keep up the good work.
Well, nothing will be built in Pratt. That’s for sure.
The article about St. Louis doesn’t say in so many words but the actual center city of St. Louis has been ringed by suburbs and the Mississippi River/Illinois state line for years … so it COULD NOT grow in area. Still as the article goes on to mention the St. Louis metropolitan area is one of the larger in the U.S.
Kansas City, on the other hand, had the foresight back in the late 1950’s or early 1960’s to annex a great amount of open land north of the Missouri River and, also, some land that ringed around the south side of Raytown back up to I-70. This gave K.C. the site for Kansas City International Airport some 20 miles north of downtown K.C.
In regard to Kansas City, Missouri, there are several interesting plans that never came to fruition. Back in the 1890’s or so, an idea was floated of changing the Kansas/Missouri state line to follow the old thread of Turkey Creek. This line would have wrapped around the south side of downtown Kansas City, Missouri, from the Union Station north, to give KANSAS a large urban center which it did not then have.
Another interesting plan was suggested by Frank Carswell, Boss Tom Pendergast’s old concrete man, and later wealthy contractor. Frank was the pavement contractor on KCI airport. He proposed to build an underground rapid transit system from KCI through the thick and fairly shallow limestone strata to downtown K.C. Frank always said the mined limestone would have paid for the project.
Another thought which might have worked was to purchase Richards-Gebaur (sp?) Air Force base back from the federal government in the early 1960’s to use for the new Kansas City International Airport. That might have changed history somewhat because much of K.C’s growth has been to the south and southeast and southwest in Johnson County. That location might have offered a modern rapid transit route through the densely populated portions of K.C. and on southwestward to Wichita.
Unfortunately, the U.S. Air Force wasn’t quite ready to give up its air force base.
Both Wichita and Kansas City metro areas back in the early years of the 20th century had a wheel and spoke system of trolley car lines going out as far as Hutchinson, Newton and Wellington here. But as automobiles came along and populations moved outward, the trolley lines were finally closed by about 1940 so the rails could be used in the WWII effort.
It’s funny how it’s the “leftist” who opposes Communism but the “rightists” like “ictBest” who support Communism. Referring, of course, to all this government money going into private business ventures.
As for Moore – I think he is a great choice and have said so. I have wondered why the City has seemed so intent on bringing in a hired gun from elsewhere who has no vested interest in our city. Moore seems very level-headed and can also readily seek advice from Flentje whenever he needs to.
I was at Gulf Oil when Pickens launched his raid – and have no ill feelings toward him as a result. Gulf became a target because of lousy management AT GULF – not because of Pickens.
If a company is well-managed that will be reflected in its stock price. That is the best defense against a “hostile takeover”
I hope Pickens builds wind turbines all up and down the Great Plains – the “Saudi Arabia of Wind”
This could be very good news both for grid storage and also for electric cars. If we can get a car up to a few hundred miles capacity then it could make a perfect ’second’ car for just about anyone. Or, as a plug-in hybrid even better.
In this time of economic downturn and tightening personal budgets its so refreshing to hear of someone with more money than God throwing it around to see how many buildings on which he can get his name.
While some initial funding came from the county, there are many grants being received from manufacturers and others. These jobs will not only put money into the budget but also into the billfolds of many employees for their families.
Training for nurses and other professions are getting additional funding from the legislature.
BTH: Good comment about the paradox of someone like “ictBest” claiming to be a “rightist” even though in reality, he shows strong affinity for the communist side. Too bad we don’t know his real identity so we could explain to him the errors in his thinking.
“These jobs will not only put money into the budget but also into the billfolds of many employees for their families.”
Completely agree, but it is a total waste of money to build this concrete monument at Jabara. It should be downtown, where there is a long line of people looking for work who do not have means to get to Jabara.
Prediction: Within 3 years of completion this endeavor will be folded and the facility will be acquired for pennies by either Butler County Community College or WSU for extension centers.
Joe! Is that you?
It’s too bad our “leaders” (sic) made the decision to eviscerate Vo-Tech. It already had aviation programs that could be beefed up.
Thank you! I enjoyed it as well and look forward to seeing you here!
Thank you JWINK….and…..the first wooden propellor was made by George Siedhoff the first at The Broadview Hotel…and there’s more stories that go with that too!
Jerry! Who ever you are. You’re pretty cool.
Would love to know what business you are in.
Andi Atwater: In the interests of full disclosure, your comments above should state the breakdown of diversity of medical students in American medical schools including osteopathic, chiropractic, podiatry schools and nursing programs.
Your comments would lead readers to believe that if only 2 or 3% of medical students and doctors are black, the other 97% or so are white caucasions.
My guess the percentages are similar to our schools and colleges, portions of white, black, hispanic, Asian, people from Indian sub-continent, Iranians, and so forth.
Presumably medical schools like other professional schools meet various education, experience and aptitude entry requirements in order to enroll people who have potential to succeed in the field and … are not in it for the money it pays.
Sort of a change in topic but …
Might Bill Warren feature LOCAL film-makers at his taxpayer-subsidized Old Town theater? Perhaps he could partner with WSU and KMUW to promot that.
How about the news of Toyota’s lead engineer on the camry hybrid dying from being overworked: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080709/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_overwork_death
Molly: Yea … sounds OK to me. Thanks for letting us know.
Now P.J., as brilliant as you are in book learning, you know that driving up food prices is only one of the myriad of problems caused by ethanol manufacturing particularly here in relatively dry Kansas.
One is that without government subsidies, no ethanol manufacturer would even consider producing that product.
Two, here in Kansas, many of us who are life long loyal Kansans see the hand writing on the wall. Pumping the water needed for ethanol and associated irrigation is draining our relatively pristine deep underground water aquifers. This will evenually lead to tremendous drinking water shortages in Kansas as are now being experienced in other states.
Furthermore, draining the aquifers will lead to obtaining our drinking water from the already turgid, polluted surface rivers such as the Arkansas River and other surface rivers that run any length through Kansas.
In the last couple years, our ill-informed Sedgwick County commissioners allowed Sedgwick County trash to be hauled to the new Harper County landfill which will eventually poison the picturesque, free flowing Chikaskia River.
The Chikaskia River begins not far away, somewhere south of Cunningham near the fabled St. Leo, Kansas, where it begins in a jumble of old Budweiser beer kegs from the St. Leo Catholic church. Its said Chikaskia River water has a slight taste of stale beer from those old wooden kegs which feed the giant channel catfish along there. Now the Budweiser taste will be traded for the taste of fresh garbage from Sedgwick County.
I GUESS ETHANOL MANUFACTURING IS FOLLOWING THE OLD LAW … THAT IS, THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
Forget it Wink. She’s an ethanol shill. So far in the tank she’s hopeless.
Gee, Farm Journal and KState agree with big ag?
heheheheh. Who’d a thought?
Wink, I’ve got a hundred dollar bill that says she NEVER writes anything critical of ethanol.
Why the vitriol against P.J.? KSFARMGRRL sounds like a frustrated sapphic treehugger who couldn’t find her way out of a ethanol tank with a flashlight and a ladder.
P.J. is a newsgatherer. She disseminates the latest news with flair and efficiency. So you have a problem with the way the government is handling ethanol production and rising food prices and all the other economically challenging factors that impact Kansas farmers and the economy? Fine — but stop shooting the messenger.
I don’t always agree with the stories, but I respect the reporting. Try reserving your comments for the news itself, or perhaps challenge the government or researcher perspectives. Constantly attacking a reporter is sophomoric and belies your lack of understanding.
Somehow, the whole doctor–patient arrangement should be changed to achieve better outcomes. Several acquaintences have died after going to doctors for problems, admittedly serious problems with cancer. But I believe the treatment did them in, not the cancer.
I would like to hear more discussion of alternate arrangements of health care. Perhaps eliminating the doctor level and promoting up the ladder through various levels of nurses, medical aids, osteopathic aids, chiropractor aids, and podiatry aids.
Perhaps the “doctors” at the top should have business or journalism degrees rather than medical degrees so they see the patients’ big picture.
I’m not in the health care field so haven’t given much thought to this but definitely don’t like the low level of treatment with the current system.
sapphic? hehehehehehehehehehehheeeeeee!
Now where did THAT come from? Not from any of these ethanol threads….
So… all the news about ethanol is positive? No negatives? Only in PJ’s world. Let’s call it what it is. Shilling.
Heheheheheheheheh.
What color is the sky in YOUR world?
If this was truly a news gathering and reporting deal, uh, that would include BOTH sides, no?
But since it’s only ONE side she promotes, and even defends, I think that’s the very definition of shilling.
PS, still got that hundred dollar bill waiting for something not so positive about ethanol…
In my view the jury is still out on corn-ethanol. Inputs of fertilyzer and irrigation for corn, coupled with ‘wear and tear’ on the soil may well exceed the output in fuel.
In and area like Iowa where it rains more it might make more sense.
I’m looking forward to cellulosic ethanol – especially if it can be done from trash.
With Ray Frederick as President and a new building, WIBA is dramatically reaching out to the community.
Tim Witsman as executive director has really helped them put the move on.
Is P.J. Griekspoor an editorial writer or reporter for the Wichita EAGLE?
The EAGLE normally stresses the difference as though an invisible line or wall separates the two overall activities. At the Wichita EAGLE, editorial writers are actually physically separated from news reporters who reside in a large noisy, clattering news room.
Would Phil Brownlee, lead editorial writer, run out onto Douglas and interview participants in say a truck and city bus collision? Or would Brownlee cooly maintain an aloof gentlemen’s distance in his role as EAGLE editorial writer? I suspect the latter.
But what is the standard in regard to the blogs maintained by the EAGLE? Should Brownlee and other EAGLE opinion writers continue to honor their role as editorial writers and not reporters? After all computer blogs are a different medium from newspapers.
By the same token, should we, the Wichita EAGLE readers and WE Bloggers expect EAGLE reporters to honor the traditional separation and continue to write news articles giving both sides of the story. And tell the old “where, when, who, and what really happened”? Should EAGLE reporters continue as news presenters when participating in the blogs, particularly the “BUSINESS CASUAL” blog?
If so, is the learned P.J. Grieksmoor, one of the EAGLE’s environmental writers, stepping over the line separating editorial/opinion writers from the coldly dispassionate, two-sided news reporters?
I’m sorry … I don’t know the answer.
Good comment, Ray.
This is right in line with what those of us predicted who were and still are opposed to the 1/2 billion dollar white elephant downtown arena.
Not only is the arena vicinity not developing, the threat of the arena’s lack of parking has already chased a lot of good companies out of the central core. I won’t name them because their defense will be they had other more altruistic reasons for moving.
In fact, I have been keeping a list of the arena insiders, the cheerleaders for the albatross, screaming the “little people” of Wichita desperately wanted the arena … WHO HAVE SINCE MOVED OUT OF WICHITA LEAVING THEIR UNPAID ARENA BILLS FOR OTHERS TO PAY.
The skeleton of the arena is being constructed so I’ve been told. Of course, the big operational expenses for management, insurance, heating, air conditioning, electricity, natural gas, water for the ice slabs, snaks for the arena cheerleaders in their skyboxes, haven’t even began yet.
But now the list is mounting of what the citizens of Wichita and Sedgwick County CAN’T HAVE BECAUSE THE ARENA EXPENSES WILL HAVE TO BE PAID.
Things like repair of our potholed streets. And construction of storm sewers needed all over the city and county. And repair of bursting water mains. And replacement of bridges and overpasses that are exceeding their design life. And adequate schools for our youth.
But yippy de dooda, we are getting one helluva billion dollar arena whether we want it or not, whether we need it or not, and whether there is any user who will adequately pay to use it.
So, I say, “Mr. Mayor, just stop this idiotic arena before it’s too late.”
jwink – it’s already too late to stop it. I hope the remaining arena boosters find a way to make it work but I still don’t see what is going to fill it. As I noted before the opportunity was lost when WSU revamped Koch Arena on campus. Had the suggestions some of us made back then been looked at perhaps we would have the Shockers as an anchor tenant.
One thing I don’t understand about local businesses is that we have not seen restaurant/bars near Century II. That venue fills regularly (MTW doing All Shook Up this week) but my wife and I usually end up eating out elsewhere. Hopefully the Broadview will hold together and the renovations go through. I like Chisolms and Le Parc as occassional dinner spots.
I don’t see how a few or even a few dozen nights can support restaurants nearby – C-II on the other hand has many more nights (albeit smaller numbers). I guess that as a businessman myself I still do not see the business model of this Arena project.
Fran Jabara has always been a very level-headed businessman. I hope he remains a resource for our city for many years to come.
“Build it and they will come.” has been the motto of the city and a few promoters/contractors that are trying to benefit from city’s spending. Let’s see, there is the Hyatt, (now city owned), Waterwalk, years in the making, little to show for the tax investment, Old Town bar district, getting to be more and more tax financed with very little hope of further development. What is sad is that private development, the very essence of development continues to leave. Talk about parking and eyes glass over and the very promoters that are pushing these projects deny there is a need. 5 years from now the city will pay $1MM to study the situation and parking will be listed as the main problem. People go now west or east where there is plenty of parking. These areas in town are better planned, larger in scope and with private development money. They continue to grow without the city and without their tax money. The very problem of promoter/contractor projects is that they are political in nature and poorly planned.
Why don’t the naysayers leave?
Think positive, don’t worry, be HAPPY! (:~)
Think positive, don’t worry, be HAPPY! (:~)
And keep your head buried deep in the sand!
Hey, even I buy bottled water once in a while. I’m not much of a soda drinker and I hate 3.2 beer…
But seriously, bottled water is one of the most harmful things in the world. Outsourcing our water supply to coke and pepsi is never a good thing. And in many developing nations, they are taking over and privatizing the water supplies. Hell, privatization of water is happening right here in our country. A VERY bad thing.
Support your local businesses. My suggestion is always pack a good ol’ fashioned Coleman jug with ice water. And the ice should be made at home, in a small chunch, not purchased from a cooler. (Unlesss it’s to ice down REAL beer!).
I know, when you are rushing out of the house in the morning, the last thing you need to do is pack something else to tote along. But really, if you freeze the ice as the last thing at night, and fix up the water jug when you make the coffee in the morning, you can just grab it on the way out.
I imagine Carrie doesnt pack a lunch very often, given her posts about lunches, but you can save waaaaaay more money by packing your water than your lunch. Not that packing lunch isnt a good idea too.
Go to the farmers market. Stock up on fresh goodies for lunch. Take a Coleman jug of water along your lunch every day. You could save up to ten bucks a day depending on your habits.
Farmers and water advocates everywhere will thank you!
It’s going to work out. Just like OKC and Omaha, things really started to develop after their arenas were built and things keep on building. This will happen in Wichita as well.
I never understood the naysayers who think the Downtown Arena is going to be a failure. I guess that means the Kansas Coliseum was a colossal failure for all these 30 years. Then the Naysayers will say that the Kansas Coliseum is what we need and is successful, but they fail to recognize that the downtown arena IS a replacement for the Kansas Coliseum.
If the Kansas Coliseum isn’t a failure, then what’s going to makes the downtown arena a failure? Because of cost? It’s already bought and paid for with no interest to bond investors as waste, it received much more money than the naysayers could even stand and it will have an operating surplus to last it 25 years. It’s a huge success already.
JWink? He’s a transplant from white flight JoCo that hopes to bring out the worst in Wichita. A nobody with silly thoughts in his head. Basically he isn’t a Wichitian, so that tells you enough.
Joe! I hope you are right! We shall see …
By the way – how many decades does a ‘trasplant’ need to live, work, and invest in Wichita to become a Wichitan?
I agree ksfg. A very easy and convenient approach is to fill a plastic (flexible) bottle about 1/3 and put in the freezer. Then fill the rest of the way with water on the way out and you not only have water you have COLD water.
If I am going to be at work where a faucet is handy make that 1/3 more like 2/3 and have cold all day.
Dave Warren and his crew provide us with very high-quality drinking water here in Wichita.
You people who keep complaining about arena parking do provide great entertainment.
Another idea to save is to use non-paper coffee cup for your morning Joe. People in my office mindlessly use multiple paper cups a day, often two a time to protect from burning their delicate hands, while plenty of perfectly good, reusable ceramic mugs sit in the cabinet three steps away from the coffee maker.
I think there will be many, many more “bank” closings. I use the term “bank” loosely because if you bought your house through IndyMac (and others) there was no credit check of any kind. Home prices are going up, so who cares about bad credit? And these facilities are FDIC insured?
The late 80’s and early 90’s were much worse with over 500 banks closing due to the S&L crisis.
Since I fall into the “grumpy old man” category I would prefer to throw out all democrats and republicans and start over. But it is very ironic to me that the granddaddy of the Keating 5 is soon to be the republican nominee for president.
That’s at least one person that should have known better than to allow that type of financial activity AGAIN.
True enough Ben, and a great idea that is easier than mine. I just drink more water in a day than a bottle will hold. I NEED a Coleman jug!
Good point too about the paper cups. But I am waaaaay more alarmed at what is happening to our water supply than I am about biodegradable paper cups.
The water crisis is heading your way, Wichita. Western Kansas is just the canary in the coal mine.
Since we are unlikely to get anything even REMOTELY objective from the WE’s ethanol shill… a little information for balance. Thanks to annie moose.
“Critical of ethanol?
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html
The Archer Daniels Midland Corporation (ADM) has been the most prominent recipient of corporate welfare in recent U.S. history. ADM and its chairman Dwayne Andreas have lavishly fertilized both political parties with millions of dollars in handouts and in return have reaped billion-dollar windfalls from taxpayers and consumers. Thanks to federal protection of the domestic sugar industry, ethanol subsidies, subsidized grain exports, and various other programs, ADM has cost the American economy billions of dollars since 1980 and has indirectly cost Americans tens of billions of dollars in higher prices and higher taxes over that same period. At least 43 percent of ADM’s annual profits are from products heavily subsidized or protected by the American government. Moreover, every $1 of profits earned by ADM’s corn sweetener operation costs consumers $10, and every $1 of profits earned by its ethanol operation costs taxpayers $30″
Uh, gee. If ethanol is so freakin’ wonderful, how come the free market cant support it?
your tax dollars at work…
ksfg – one thing we are doing here is to recharge the Equus aquifer. Since it is a water table shallow aquifer that can be done – unlike the Ogalalla.
Western KS, IMO, needs to be moving away from massive irrigation NOW – before the Ogalalla is empty.
If you can stop drinking bottled water that is one of the most important things you can do for the environment and for our local water supply.
What incentive do we have to be sure we have a safe drinking supply if we don’t ever use it? I know people who won’t drink tap water. At all.
If you refrigerate your water (and it doesn’t need to be a Brita filtration pitcher) the chlorine comes out of the water and you are left with cold, refreshing water… just like they sell at the store.
Well, thank you KSfarmgirl, for that timely, objective bit of reading. A 1995 paper citing statistics from 1979 and predicting what dire consequences might arise by 2000. All brought to you from the highly objective, non-agenda pushing Cato Institute.
The order backlog race is kind of a warped yardstick. It is important, but it also contains a lot of false achievement because the orders are placed by customers with a history of financial problems or not following through on commitments. The real test is actual deliveries.
Good point about attacking the messenger. That is not productive, it does not add to the understanding of the subject, and it is not even interesting reading. Several of the people who post to these blogs have a good intellect and it shows in their writing. Let’s hear more from those people.
Has it occurred to anyone that the reports used by the anti-ethanol people usually contain data which is not consistent with mainstream research? When a K-State authority refers to them as “math-challenged”, isn’t that noteworthy? There has to be something more relevant than using a 13-year old study based on 30-year old data.
Here is a challenge for P.J. As mentioned earlier here, there are several dimensions to the ethanol issue. Each of the issues gets mixed in with the discussions on any one subject so that the original subject gets lost. How about doing an article on each of the separate issues; energy in/out, cost in/out, the role of subsidy, food cost, and water?
Good idea buswriter. I would also make a differentiation regarding irrigated corn vs ‘rain-watered’ corn.
It would also be interesting to see an article on the current state of R&D on cellulosic ethanol. I’m sure ICM could give a good update there.
Good idea. Lets add R&D to the list. ICM is working not only on the cellulosic idea, but with developing the by-products of the process into marketable products. I understand that the prototype plant in St. Joseph expects to collect as much revenue from the previously discarded by-products as from the ethanol by itself. Are you listening, P.J.?
And the next step. It is my understanding that the facility planned for Harvey County will use recycled waste water. Now if it can also use cellulosic trash it could be a great development.
A bit off topic but … MTW did a great performance of All Shook Up last night. I am really looking forward to their season finale Les Miserbles in three weeks. They will have extra performances of that one – should be good.
Clearly.
Its not really funny but at&t promised me that it would have 3G over a year ago. They do in Rogers/Bentonville Arkansas. So how come AT&T cant get it working here?
I was going to upgrade from iPhone v1 to iPhone v2 cause I wanted the 3G and the new GPS, but when I found out that Wichita area doesn’t have 3G coverage, I have decided to wait. No need to upgrade since v1 can still run the new 2.0 software.
A good article. Thanks.
And yet the builders fight against safety requirements in our building codes. They put affordability (profitability) before protection.
Ms. Rengers: Sounds like you got taken by the old “silver dollar-with-two-tails” trick! Hope you enjoyed the lunch.
And also, the old “one hundred dollar bill wrapped around 30 one dollar bills” trick. Always looks impressive.
Incidentally, are you holding a locked canvas bag which he said was full of thousands of thousand dollar bills? Your check for $1,000 which he is holding is merely to prove your honest intention to hold the money bag safely for a few weeks until he returns with the key so you can divide up the money.
Be sure to hide the bag safely somewhere in the news room upstairs in the Eagle building!!!
It appears that the “Capitol Federal”s of the banking world will do fine. These are the ones who stayed dull and boring – taking in deposits, hosting my checking accounts and credit cards, making dull boring conventional home mortgages to ordinary working people.
In many ways this is a re-run of the S&L debacle a couple of decades ago. The ones who stayed true to their roots and mission (dull and boring) thrived. The ones who got ‘modern and fancy’ failed.
Hey bth,
I agree with you, but please correct me if I’m wrong. The “modern and fancy” lenders became that way when Congress and the president loosened loan guidelines, basically giving the banks license to steal. From my understanding this (Congress) was exactly what caused the S&L crisis with one major difference: the S&L crisis was not FDIC guaranteed and most investors were crushed.
With McCain’s Keating 5 background (his self proclaimed biggest political mistake) he should have been screaming from the top of his lungs.
The whole thing makes me sick.
Carrie, if you win big in Vegas, are you coming back?
OK, it’s not exactly relevant (unless one has read your previous post), but it IS a comment.
I think that is part of it. Also, as they became more sophisticated with creating an alphabet soup of derivitives they could hide the risks – for a while.
You are right about McCain and the Keating 5 – I would add that with Bush’s brother Neil involved with Silverado that GWB should also have been aware.
The difference you note wasn’t really there – S&Ls had FSLIC. Investors got hit; not depositors. As it whould be today. Note that shareholders of IndyMac came out empty-handed.
Another red flag – super-fast growth. I worked in Pasadena back in the 70s – never heard of IndyMac. But they balooned into a rather big bank. And on what?
If she wins we all get together at the Larkspur … and she’s buying!
People are reading the blogs because they will comment to me about them. I’ve been surprised that officeholders and business leaders are reading them. The posts are better than the uncredited opinion line comments. But they don’t go through a journalistic filter to verify accuracy and often the posts are assaults instead of comments. Although not as often in the business casual blogs.
I love this blog. It’s the best one offered by the Eagle. JWink is another story though. I really hate to bag on the guy, but he can be part of the problem.
People love reading the blog post and the comments if they contribute to the subject and offer good insight to it. But when people go on about crazy conspiracies and just bag on everything that has anything related to Wichita (naysayers we call them) it just kills the thread.
WE Blog when it first started was great. The people who commented were also very good. But then it just got overran by kooks, political hacks, naysayers, the JWinks and etc and it just became a very boring and uninformative place. Even the posted entries from the WE staff to the blog and it ceased to have anything to do with Kansas or Wichita. It’s solely focused on National events and national politics.
I just hope that it doesn’t happened to this blog. Please don’t let the likes of JWink steer this wonderful blog into one that caters to his naysayer, ultra negative and conspiracy point of view.
I can tell the authors who contribute to his blog are passionate and have a positive outlook on Wichita. Please keep it that way.
I found the quiz online. I guess I’m a Corvette.
That’s sweet.
Joe: You have been missing. Some of us thought you had finally joined the military to get your life straightened out. I recall you indicated at the WE Blogger meetup at the EAGLE’s building, you were considering finally doing your patriotic duty.
” I really hate to bag on the guy, but he can be part of the problem.”
Yea right Joe! You seem to make bagging on certain people your life’s work.
One problem I see is that there are those who take constructive criticism of government decisions as ‘nay-saying’ or ‘Wichita-hating.’ That kind of attitude fosters group-think and in turn can lead to disaster.
I like the idea of a blog that focuses on our City rather than the more global/political arena of the WEBlog. However, if everyone just goes “rah rah” we don’t learn anything and we also don’t refine our approaches in a fashion that might just improve them. In particular it would not be good to have things totally dominated by WDDC and other booster groups at the expense of contrary views that might be held by ‘rank-and-file’ Wichitans.
All that said I’d like to make another pitch for Music Theater of Wichita. Their upcoming performances of Les Miserables promise to be fantastic. Their season so far has certainly not disappointed and they consistently draw thousands of people downtown. For Les Miserables they are scheduling extra performances so tickets should be available.
Carrie – might I suggest a thread on MTW in support of these performances at Century II? I have been to theater in New York, London and elsewhere. Our MTW can stand proud among them.
I’m a Ferrari 360 Modena!
You’ve got it all. Power, passion, precision, and style. You’re sensuous, exotic, and temperamental. Sure, you’re expensive and high-maintenance, but you’re worth it.
“Take the Which Sports Car Are You? quiz.
Another thing that Rene Stevens has been able to do is periodically get her name out in public in ways that generate good will. I saw a bit of a good-natured swipe she took at Dawson Grimsley this morning – both of them are active in community charity work. This kind of thing – even without mentioning the company names – benefits the business.
An interesting disconnect – ‘my business is doing well but the economy is lousy’. I wonder if this is keeping businesses from investing and expanding. As a result, I wonder if a PERCEPTION of hard times ends up CREATING hard times.
*Sigh* I arrest my case. As you can see, this is what JWink is all about. I’m not going to be the only one he will be personally attacking on a regular basis. He does this to everybody that doesn’t subscribe to his negative and conspiracy points of view.
Great! Just great. I didn’t want a real example to happen, to see how a fire is started in a thread, but there you go.
Oh well. That’s the internet. The JWinks will always be there plugging away. Best just to ignore him.
And Mr. Ben I don’t make it my life’s work. I rarely post and I don’t go over to the WE Blog anymore. You know better than most that is not what I do.
You can criticize public officials and public projects all you want, but I don’t have to sit here and let the likes of JWink start spewing lies about public officials and projects. I call him out on it.
JWink, who believes that Wichita is ran by some oligarchy communist group is some unknown building downtown (his exact words) and me calling him out on it is hardly constructive criticism. He’s a kook.
I enjoy this blog very much, it’s wonderful to have an opportunity to both voice my opinion and view other’s as well. Many times it’s educational.
I think to many readers this format may still be a bit new and believe that the Eagle will know their true identity. I discovered first hand I was wrong. As more readers become comfortable, I look forward to very lively discussions and debates.
All the best!
“*Sigh* I arrest my case”
On what charge Joe? Or do you mean you REST your case? Well, “As you can see, this is what Joe! is all about … he’s not going to be the only one Joe will be personally attacking on a regular basis. He does this to everybody that doesn’t subscribe to his points of view.”
Jerry – welcome aboard! Picking up on my comments this afternoon – check out our own MTW in a couple of weeks. Should be a great show! I don’t know if you caught any of their shows earlier this season but they are really something to be proud of!
http://www.MTWichita.org
For the record – other than my season tickets I have no connection to MTW.
Oh Gawd! Can you ever be more creative Ben?
No matter. I don’t have any beef with you. You can back up JWink all you want. It doesn’t change my or anybody else perception of JWink.
You can be his friend, but just beware. That is all I have to say. You’re an adult. You’ll learn.
Besides that. Ben-welcome aboard! Nice to see you still have the passion to promote the wonderful treasure of our community and that is the Music Theatre of Wichita.
On Les Miserables, did you know that the Unabridged Novel by Victor Hugo is a 513,000 words novel (approx. 1700+ pgs).
It’s a great story indeed. I would love to see the performance at MTW.
The Economy is driven by the perception of the future and the circulation of cash.
ICT/Joe: I notice you have been busy this PM punching in your usual vitrolic comments … always attacking the messenger, but no attempt at debating the important issues facing Wichita.
In your absence and the absence of a couple of your associates, these blogs have actually been making sense.
And why no mention of your plans to join your peers in the military? This could get your life straightened out and back on track.
If you need directions, the all-military services recruiting offices are located at Central and West streets adjacent to the new Dillon’s Store. I suspect the U.S. Army can find an appropriate spot for you to get you back on track and in the ranks of the employed.
By the way, I have been wanting to ask someone, perhaps you know, where did Ed ________, (how soon we forget), former supervisor of downtown office buildings, go to after he left Wichita? Do you still keep in touch with him? Hope he is able to do better wherever he went than he did here in Wichita.
My life is perfectly fine JWink. So STFU!
How long will it take until the rest of them figure out your con game. You never mention why you were chased out of Johnson Co., now you are in Wichita peddling.
It won’t take long. Don’t worry. You think you have everybody fooled.
Wondering how much you are going to flood the in-boxes to borderline harassment to the good people at the Eagle?
They’ll figure you out too, soon enough.
Oh! And by the way. I don’t need to pass on your message of disdain to the soldiers of the American Armed Forces for you. They understand that some people, like yourself JWink, are ungrateful about and hate the members of our military. They’ll still go on fighting for your freedom anyways.
May you soon leave Wichita, JWink. And let the door slam you in your butt on the way out. Go to your next stop and peddle your snake oil away from here.
Funny Joe … I was in the U.S. Army and reserves for quite a few years, left as a Captain. On the other hand, about three years ago when I met you at the EAGLE’s WE Blog meetup, you said you were “thinking” about joining the military to get your life in order. You are at that age where your peers are serving. What happened to you?
My my Joe, you do seem to get hot. I read and re-read JWink’s post and see no evidence of “message of disdain to the soldiers of the American Armed Forces” anywhere in it.
As for ‘beware’ I’m not worried. I’ve known JWink for a couple of years – not real well since we don’t really run in the same circles. I probably disagree with him politically more than I agree. But I don’t see him as a back-stabber.
I notice that you seem it to be a real negative for someone (other than a recruited city manager I guess) to be a ‘transplant.’ As a transplant myself I ask you: just how many decades do I have to live here to be a Wichitan in your eyes? Especially since I suspect that I have more adult years working, paying taxes, and investing in Wichita than you do. And doing pro bono work for the City.
Carrie – a suggestion for the Eagle. Ya’ll have done some of this recently with some features about nearby attractions. My suggestion goes a bit further. Publish a pull-out booklet of “trips on a tankful” featuring “mini-vacations” in Kansas. Advertising could be sold to various Bed&Breakfasts, restaurants, etc in the various towns that would be destinations. This benefits everyone – the nearby communities where I might spend my money and Wichitans looking for afffordable get-aways.
I can’s remember the exact title but an Eagle writer wrote a book 83,000 square miles or something like that. It has a lot of good stuff – but maps etc would help!
A Note to Mr. Rod Stewart. Hi Rod, I was also on that RV trip with all of you guys some 32 years ago! Your story couldn’t have explained Jack Hunt any better. He will certainly be misses forever, but what he did in Wichita and all the life’s that his life touched will live on for a long time. My deepest thoughts and sorrow to Wichita and all of his many friends and family.
Sincerely, Patty Warren
Do you remember the Chili Story?
I think most small business professionals think business conditions are good when they can make payroll week after week
Seriously, the economy is humming along quite nicely in some markets (i.e. Wichita) and really sputtering in others, like Arizona and California. I consider it more of a “bubble correction” than anything else out there.
Doesn’t the economy always “stink” in election years?
That’s too bad because that would have been and would have brought some more much needed retail development on Wichita’s south side. In fact, there’s very little visible retail of any kind anywhere along the I-235 corridor, unless you consider west Kellogg.
That, and that mobile home park has clearly never recovered from the storm that hit nearly 10 years ago.
That’s pretty funny.
There could be some hope. It might be awhile though.
There is still that one developer who wants to put a massive shopping center on 47th and I-135, pending that KDOT gets the funding to redo the 47th exits and bridge (which I assume they will.)
With the Harrah’s Casino going in to Mulvane, I suspect that 47th St. to Mulvane could be a great corridor for shopping and a Bass Pro-Shop.
The whole BassPro/WaterWalk fiasco is a tremendous black eye for the entire WaterWalk project and everyone involved in that project. Mayans makes a very convenient scapegoat for those who deserve the real blame – the boosters and developers of WaterWalk.
Even though City of Wichita has spent a bundle of dollars for temporary city managers, Wichita hasn’t had an effective city manager since Chis Cherches quit back in about 2003.
After Cherches left, I believe George Kolb arrived from somewhere in southeast United States. Mr. Kolb had some good points but didn’t relate well to people so he was soon history.
Kolb was followed by “acting” city manager, Ed Flentje, a WSU professor, who more or less temporarily filled the city manager’s seat at city council meetings.
Then came the short and aborted attempt to bring former Sunrise, Florida, city manager Pat Salerno from Florida to Wichita. Word on the street was that while visiting Wichita to look for a house, Pat recognized the hopelessness of doing anything constructive with Downtown Wichita due to the white elephant downtown arena and its unbelievable lack of parking and no tenant. So Salerno said NO TO WICHITA and let the chips fall.
Then the city council looked at the city’s stable of potential acting city managers and chose Scott Moore, an assistant city manager with excellent people skills if minimal experience in managing larger cities.
Again word on the street is most people feel the city council should settle back and give Scott Moore a chance to show his skills for at least a year. This would give time for the next April city elections to take place with a probable turn-over in city councilmen.
But, again, it appears the same city council people who messed up the Pat Salerno search are again out hiring another expensive search firm to come up with more names of city manager prospects.
So look for more big tax expenditures for travel and dinners by council people with little or no progress.
It should be clear Wichita doesn’t need more government subsidized FISHING AND HUNTING SPORTING GOODS STORES.
First, Gander Mountain in Wichita has been a collosal failure even though it’s the Wal-Mart of hunting and fishing retail stores.
Two, Wichita already has a number of privately owned sporting goods stores selling hunting and fishing equipment. We don’t need local government meddling in this fragile business.
Three, Wichita is definitely not a fishing destination unless you like to stand on the Harry and Lincoln street bridges casting out into the polluted Arkansas River when it is actually running some water after a rain. I suspect Carp are the main fish caught there.
Hunting in the Flint Hills northeast of Wichita and in the Gyp Hills southeast of Wichita has some potential mostly for ducks and pheasants. We used to hunt jack rabbits out in the fields of Pratt County near Preston and Cullison but I suspect the jack rabbit population is much diminished from those days. In fact, jack rabbits might be extinct.
Most likely the wild game left in Kansas, like our “wild geese,” will run up begging for food unless camoflaged hunters manage to shoot them first.
Ben: You are correct, others fouled up the River Walk project around the Boathouse and it’s still fouled up. But Carlos Mayans took the black eye. Carlos, where are you now that we need you back in city government?
I agree – give Wichitan Moore a chance. I’m sure he can also tap Ed Flentje for advice and connections whenever he needs them. Perhaps a home-grown Wichitan will make a better choice than a hired gun from outside.
Carlos reneged on a contract that the city had signed for the Waterwalk development. It scared off Bass Pro.
The ill-fated WaterWalk was a half-baked idea from the beginning. I was at the Council meeting where it was initially approved – plans were nebulous at best. It was to be the great netertainment district where “east meets west” and all of Wichita would frequent. Of course, I remember all of that being said about Old Town which has not lived up to expectations (see today’s Eagle about TIFs).
WaterWalk today looks nothing like what was sold to the Council. Over-priced condos and a sub-market sporting goods store – hardly the glitz presented long ago. As for Gander Mountain check out its financials at http://www.morningstar.com. Hardly impresssive.
It is sad to see the Boathouse in such derelict condition. Assuning it doesn’t get torched I expect it to be declared an eyesore and demolished … so the prime real estate can be given away for a dollar a year.
Now lets see shockball and Joe! (ictbest) back up their claims that Carlos “reneged” on a contract. My memories of the history of this ill-fated fiasco are consistent with Mayans’.
Am I missing something?
If Bass Pro moving to Wichita was entirely contingent upon the Wichita City Council approving the Waterwalk, why wasn’t the Waterwalk approval by the City Council completely contingent on Bass Pro locating here?
jerry – vary good point.
Sorry Ben! But I know the truth and I have never said that It as Mayans that botched it. Go ahead! Do the search on every single one of my post. Lord knows you have the time.
I liked Mayans, I voted for him and I supported him.
So that blows your assumption out the water. But that is the usual with you.
Next year you should be able to go to Mulvane to lose your money!
Or do you mean Wellington? Ha!
Definitely good news! I wonder if they will put up a tatoo parlor in MULVANE?!
I should have been more specific that it was just shockball this time. But Joe, you know it is your typical MO to blame failures in government projects on so-called nay-sayers somehow sabatoging them rather than acknowledging that they were simply ill-conceived in the first place.
As for Bass Pro Shop coming elsewhere locally – ain’t gonna happen.
That’s a tough one. I would guess that the physician should give detailed WRITTEN instructions to both the patient and some sort of ’significant other’ or care-giver. After all, the DR can’t go home with the patient but hopefully he has some sort of companion.
Carrie – I got a rather slick mailer today from “Sumner Resorts – Harrah’s Kansas”. Quite a booklet touting their proposal as the biggest, most jobs, most revenue etc. Real postage stamps, not metered. I wonder if they sent those to everyone or if they have some sort of mailing list – and if so what is the list from?
They are definitelymaking a big push at the state level – oretty much against the Sumner County Commission.
Since I don’t really have a dog in this fight I find it rather interesting to watch this play out. As a prediction I think Harrah’s will win. It is a state decision and they will look at the bottom line rather than the specific Sumner county position.
Your guesses?
It is the patient’s responsibility. If they are unsure they need to ask (or request a translator).
We cannot idiot-proof society.
Basically, the doctor and patient relationship is broken. Society needs a whole new way of accessing health care.
One step would be if Wichita (and other metro areas) emphacized special training in and after high school for health care workers. Instead Wichita is pandering by training aircraft workers which should be done by the aircraft companies themselves.
Step two is to replace “medical doctors” with “medical applicators.” M.A.’s would be people who work their way up the health applications ladder to reach various designations along the way.
Medical doctors obviously have choked the health pipeline system to the point that very, very few people can obtain adequate medical care in the United States. Amazingly people who belong to special socialized medicine groups such as employees insured by large corporations, university insured groups, and veterans … can obtain better care. Perhaps that points to the future of medical care.
Wichita Eagle: Please pursue this situation to determine why this positive option is being held up.
JWInk, I strongly disagree. We do NOT need another government “fix”. If government wants to do something contructive, get rid of the laws that disallow small businesses to pool their resources for better benefit packages. Get some competition out there and let the free market reign.
When government saddles the medical community with medicare, medicade, HMO’s, frivilous law suits and servicing the illegal alien community through emergency room visits this does not equate to “medical doctors obviously choking the health pipeline system”.
The more government jacks it up, the more they think they can fix it.
I’d like to see more progress with these but from probably a slightly different perspective. Since my parents were both in medicine I am probably a bit more ‘medically literate’ than many. However, I can see a role of a ‘retail clinic’ in conjunction with a person’t ‘medical home.’ It is often diffficult to get medical advice in ‘real time’ (night and weekend for example). If a clinic coud handle the simple stuff and then leave ‘real’ issues for the DR we might all benefit. Also, from my own perspective, being able to get routine tests done at convenient times (and then commuicated to my DR) would be a definite benefit.
I don’t see these clinics as replacing the traditional DR-patient relationship but rather supplementing it.
Just wondering… are there any stats on doctors who aren’t listening to their patients?
I know of at least one… mine.
Based on info I’ve seen across the Web, it’s reasonable to expect 3G in Wichita Q4 ‘08, possibly Q1 ‘09.
And, of course, the simultaneous price hike of 16 cents is only coincidence.
The gasoline filling station companies probably think like the Wichita’s Water Department. If Wichita water consumers use more water … up goes the price. If Wichita water users conserve and USE LESS WATER, UP GOES THE PRICE EVEN MORE!
JW – there is a difference. In the case of water there is a great deal of infrastructure that needs to be maintained and improved. Also there is the forward-thinking recharge project. It all costs money but believe me – ‘tomorrow’ we will all be glad we made the investments.
Thank you Ben. For setting the record straight on the water issue. You are absolutely right.
It would be interesting, wouldn’t it, if gasoline was regulated as a necessary utility like electricity?
According to EAGLE reporter, A. Atwater, author of this thread, Secretary of U.S. Health and Human Services, Mike Leavitt, called blogging “a very powerful engine for setting public policy.” Of course, Leavitt was talking about federal public policy.
I also hope that positive thoughtful blogging also contributes to public discussion of local issues right here in Wichita, river city, as well as Kansas, USA.
In Wichita, we have very few, if any, local government politicians who have the people skills, political abilities, knowledge of local issues, etc. to stand up with hands on their hips before an audience of TAX-PAYING CITIZENS to receive questions and comments and offer replies in an intellectually acceptable manner.
Here in Wichita, most of our local highly paid but underqualified politicians prefer to hide behind a dias in their commission/council chambers … attempting to appear as judges … to avoid a dialogue with the citizens who elected them.
So, the only way the public can hope to talk to elected representatives is through this relatively new phenomena of “blogging” and hope that some of the information reaches ears of our elected politicians.
Let the market decide. Obviously, given the quickness with which the decision to close was made after the store opened May 23, the market may have already decided. Good luck, though, to those who think a petition is going to change any minds at corporate.
At one time, the price of oil was regulated; as I recall, the maximum price allowed per barrel was $25, and, the price of gasoline reflected this regulation.
I don’t think so VT – however it was that thrugh the market. You may be remembering $35 gold.
A comment about water – look at what people pay for fancy bottled water. Rediculous. Carry a cooler or Thermos full of Dave Warren’s bast.
Not that I really care (to me coffee is coffee) it does seem awful quick to pull the plug. I would think they would give it a winter – figure hot drinks sell better in cold water.
BTH: I had to think what “Dave Warren’s best” refered to. Then I remembered that David Warren is head of the Wichita’s Water Department. I happened to talk with David Warren recently at Wichita’s city hall.
I mentioned the city of Phoenix tries to save water by using treated sewage treatment effluent for some purposes. I presume those uses include watering golf courses, parks, etc. Frankly I don’t recall the uses but it seems to save a substantial amount of water.
I also don’t remember price of oil being regulated. However I do remember the airlines being regulated although don’t know how that worked out in practice. I do believe the glory days of TWA, Braniff, Frontier, etc. during the 1960’s and 70’s were during those days of airline regulation.
Starbucks is too big to fail. What they need is a Federal Government bailout to keep these 600 stores open.
We could always give them a $6 million interest-free loan!
I wonder if anyone has noticed that there are TWO water pipes across the ditch at Zoo Blvd. The larger one is blue; the smaller one is red. They added the smaller one several years ago … so West Wichita now has hot water!
If you don’t believe me ask Dave Warren – he confirmed it for me.
The right answer is: “think about but do nothing.”
Frankly the purpose of these kinds of agencies is to provide government funds to support “think tanks.” These often employ out of work politicians who want to remain within the Washington beltway before returning to their home states.
In the end, nothing of value will be produced by this $300 mill. About the only saving grace its a little less waste than Wichita middle-class taxpayers are financing for the unwanted, unneeded white elephant downtown ice hockey arena.
You should probably change doctors.
BTH: When I was driving on Zoo Boulevard across the Big Ditch, I looked but didn’t see the red hot water pipe. I also looked for the red pipe next to the big blue pipe at K-96 and Halstead Road that brings part of Wichita’s drinking water in from the Equus Beds, but again didn’t see it.
As you probably know, Pratt has it’s world famous twin water towers on north Main Street marked HOT and COLD … so most of Pratt has hot water as far as I know.
As evidence it works, the water in the Pratt municipal swimming pool is currently up in the eighties. And the McDonald’s Restaurant on east First Street (Highway 54) uses the water to make its steaming hot coffee in the mornings.
BTH: Of course, each house and restaurant does have to have a water heater to make this hot water system work.
Maybe they repainted the second one. I’ll have to drive up that way and look.
In defense of the study it does strike me that some of our systems seem to work better than others. Might we learn something by studying the successes and failures of different approaches. That said, it is hard for me to see $300 million.
Three methods of appraising the value of property are 1) cost approach (land + improvements), 2) sales comparisons and 3) income capitalization.
Obviously as the potential income rises from a piece of agricultural property, the value based on income capitalization for that property is going to rise accordingly.
However, beware of the 1929 effect that might be just over the horizon. Or the game of musical chairs … if you are a buyer, don’t get left without a chair to sit in.
Starbucks is the dumbest business idea yet. Yes people have been paying $4-5 for a cup of coffee until they started to have to pay $4 for a gallon of gas or milk. By the way does that make that cup of coffee $12-15 dollars a gallon. What is more important the milkshake coffee or getting to work?
The reactions Starbucks evokes are interesting. Got a vitriol-laden voice mail from a gentleman this morning proclaiming “why does anyone care” about a Starbucks failure and blatantly stereotyping its customers.
I’m not a Starbucks customer – I don’t like coffee and gas prices are destroying my budget – but I’m rather intrigued by the anger and the political overtones in this gentleman’s voice about the company.
Anyone have any thoughts?
I think some people view it as ‘conspicuous consumption’ and lash out accordingly. As I noted above I really don’t care one way or the other – been drinking battery acid so long I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference anyway.
As for “why does anyone care” I tend to agree – from a political perspective. Should it be a ‘public’ concern whether my favorite coffee house or bar or whatever remains open? I think not.
“There’s a balance out there that will have to be achieved between reckless government spending and equally reckless anti-taxation zealots.”
I agree. That is why I support school bond issues and supported Vo-Tech’s efforts to not be eviscerated several years ago. However, the Arena crossed the line to reckless; that will likely haunt local politics for many years. This has created a substantial level of distrust toward both County and City leadership. Remember, last election cycle two incumbent Commissioners were turned out.
This distrust also was a factor in the defeat of the casino proposal last year. Without a concrete proposal of where and what we were told “trust ut.” Also, “Vote Yes Yes” began to sound a lot like “Vote Yea Rah”
Wichita and Sedgwick County needs a voice to state a differing opinion on the direction of local government. I hope Mr. Peterjohn has that voice.
I think it’s to everyone’s advantage to have full, transparent discourse PRIOR to voting.
Who knows? Maybe these blogs become a forum for those types of issues!
In the spirit of full disclosure, I’m not an arena critic. I’m quite confident, actually, that the arena will prove itself an asset to Wichita.
But with that said, I think the point Mark made that I’m trying to reinforce is this: Economic development can’t happen in today’s climate with the taxpayer on the sidelines.
It’s a wonderful thought that business should create its own incentives to stay or go, but it’s unrealistic in today’s competitive climate. Dissent is an essential part of our form of government, and it’s got a place in the community’s policy dialogue – as long as it doesn’t evolve into zealotry.
It’s fine to keep spending down. But not out. We can and should be vigilant about how our tax dollars are spent. We should never become obsessed with preventing their expenditure.
I ’sort of’ agree. Where we part company is when we subsidize one local business at the expense of another. For example – subsidizing sports bars in Old Town with taxes collected from Players out northwest. Ot Gander Mountain at the expense of Dick’s, Sheplers, etc. If you look carefully at the economic analysis of these you will find that all we are doing is re-arranging WHERE entertainment money os spent within Sedgwick County – not increasing anything.
I fear that you are correct that taxpayers are retreating to the sidelines. And I am not a supporter of Karl (although we are friends). But I do think that our current leadership (sic) has so alienated the public that there will be bad consequences.
Our hope now is that Marcey Gregory wins in November. As a successful business person and small town mayor she might bring some new ideas to the Commission. And, as a business person she knows you have to both keep spending in check but also ’spend money to make money’.
It will be an interesting race out in my part of the County.
We really don’t part company, save the merits of the question, “To what extreme does city government go to breathe some life into downtown?”
Former GWEDC chief Dave Wood called the dilemma you note the “transferral effect.” No new money, just the same money headed to different places.
The notion that tax money has a limited place in economic development is a legitimate subject for discussion. I think you can argue that the city needs to incentivize downtown redevelopment. To what extent should make a lively policy discussion.
The notion that it has no place in economic development will damage Wichita’s economy.
I frankly believe that McCormick’s column is a complete over-reaction to a democratic process. I don’t recall Lambke being the “yes-man” of city council either. Perhaps Gray will carry the torch.
“Economic development can’t happen in today’s climate with the taxpayer on the sidelines.”
I agree completely with this. But taxpayers cannot fund unlimited economic development.
Paying $6,000,000.00 to clean up the Warren Theater TIF situation was a mistake. Yes, it was the cleanest way to absolve the mess, but the mistake should have never happened. The Waterwalk should have NEVER been authorized without Bass Pro Shop being the anchor tenant. The downtown arena location should have NEVER been discussed until all land was acquired. Exploration Place and Cowtown’s business plans should have been scrutinized by on outside, independent accounting firm like AGH. And I am definitely weary of the recently passed arena zone TIF.
More transparency. Less conflicts of interest. More accountability to taxpayers.
That is NOT zealotry.
If that’s where it stops, Jerry, I agree.
If …
My concern, quite frankly, is with an environment where support for a major economic development driver – which is exactly what the Jabara tech ed center is – could cost a politician their seat. Jabara is tax money well spent.
I love this blog!
One just needs to watch the episode of Penn @ Teller’s BS on obesity to get the scoop on the history of the Body Mass Index and etc.
There has been reports that State or local incentives to recruit companies or the level of taxation has very little to do with companies locating.
Other than extreme taxation and heavy regulation, which will deter and even have business leave the area, the things a company looks for is: An educated work force, amenities of the area (i.e. the downtown arena is a huge + for us), low crime (something we really need to work for), and the general attitude of the people that live here.
If we really want to do good for our community we really need to focus on lowering crime and bringing about a unity positive attitude for our community. Wichita needs an identity, and it is getting there. But we can do more and it doesn’t really take more taxation to do it.
Lower the crime substantially and build a positive identity for Wichita and business will come.
Karl Peterjohn will serve the county well. He isn’t a zealot as everything thinks he is. A zealot is somebody like Ms. Stuart in Park City. That is somebody we don’t need in Wichita or Sedgwick Co. government.
I think it was Des Moines I read about in the Washington Post some years back. They took the approach of focusing on education/training. Develop your work force for high-value-added jobs and the companies will come in to take advantage of that work force.
The ‘Think in Green’ sessions we had here presented a lot of evidence that educated workers want amenities including outdoor recreaton. Improving our river front and bike/hiking trails support that. I have been told by personnel people at local companies that prospective employees ask about such things.
My only beef with the Jabara facility is its narrow focus. We need to be diversifying away from over-reliance on aircraft. And I guess I am still a bit angered over the evisceration of Vo-Tech; including its aircraft programs. Why didn’t we build upon what we already had?
I also question the VERY job-specific training we seem to be heading to at Jabara. Having been involved in education/training for many years it is my position that we (the public) provide a strong basic foundation and then the employer provides the specifics of special machines etc. As a community we should be preparing our workers to fill MANY possible positions; not just one.
What happens when Boeing out-sources to China and their workers are so narrow they cannot transfer their skills to elsewhere? I want Boeing to have made that NARROW investment; I want to make the investment that allows them to move elsewhere and continue paying taxes.
Now, for a possible product that we should be building here – an item often bought overseas and whose demand is increasing. It is related to aircraft in that it requires the combination of strength and light weight. Aerodynamic design. Looks like a giant airplane propellor. WIND TURBINES! We should be building them here to exploit the “Saudi Arabia of Wind” that we sit in the middle of.
Couple of comments:
I disagree strongly with any suggestion that economic incentives have little to do with company relocation. There’s a boatload of evidence out there – including reporting we’ve done in the Eagle – that suggests that our neighbors have more money and more incentives to attract business than we do.
One recent example – albeit apparently unsuccessful – comes to mind: When SemGroup – now in the bankruptcy headlines – bought Koch’s asphalt operation and moved most of it to Tulsa, it received a seven-figure annual payroll rebate from the state.
BTH, you raise several legitimate points: Jabara does appear tailored – at least in its formative stage – toward aviation. However, again referencing stories we’ve written, the competition for airplane builders is intense and laden with money. It’s clear that we’re going to lose some of the major builders if we don’t prepare a workforce to address the onslaught of baby boomer retirements they face.
Jabara’s long-term future, though, is exactly what you suggest. It’s hard for me to find fault with addressing an acute aviation need first, however.
Vo-tech is another issue, one built around leadership issues, it would appear.
While BMI may have some problems, just go anywhere in public to see the truth about how fat Americans have become.
OTOH, I don’t see 100% of adults becoming overweight… Time magazine had an article a few months ago about how childhood obesity rates have already leveled off:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1809829,00.html
This is a significant step for hospitals and for physicians. The culture of secrecy and hiding errors only serves to protect a system which is more interested in preserving the guild than in creating systems and structures which result in higher quality care. Only when we are open and honest about mistakes can we learn how to prevent them in the future.
P.J.G.: Although I didn’t always agree with you, your writing was wide ranging, well researched and enthusiastically presented.
You were also developing your blogging skills. What nic are you going to use when you check into WE Blog or Business Casual so we know its you?
Anyway good luck in your new endeavors. JWink
Hey you interviewed my when I was 18 and running for Kansas House. Wish you well in your new job!!!!
I’m willing to accept an apology and a recognition that we are all human … IF … they seek to make me whole. Any and all costs of remediation should be on them.
I doubt that they will fall much further. While the speculative bubble might have burst the underlying supply/demand factors remain – particularly the massive increase in demand in the developing world.
I do hope the demise of Suburban Assault vehicles continues. I thoroughly enjoy laughing at those drivers when they whine about how much it costs to fill their Hummers!
Great… now they’ll have even more to spend on direct-to-consumer marketing. Heaven help us all! The biggest losers will be the doctors’ office staff who will now have to buy their own bagels.
Having been “wined and dined” by professional sales reps in the past I can see two sides to this issue. In order for me to take time from my schedule to sit through a presentation about the latest innovation in “whatever” it makes a certain amount of sense to do it over lunch or something similar. I’m not saying the drinks buy the sale but perhaps they “buy the time” for the presentation.
At the annual Kansas Environmental Conference the food and drinks are routinely provided by vendors. These vendors take advantage of the situation and have a captive audience for their wares.
It’s a fine line but can be respected IF the vendors realize it.
This is a start, I suppose. Now if only Congress would crack down on all the Freebies to Big Pharma.
This isn’t really news. The VA hospital in Lexington, Kentucky piloted this policy of error self-admission and reporting over a decade ago. You know it works when their malpractice insurance costs have trended downward, reflecting lower costs of litigation and settlement. Plus, when local litigators start pitching a fit about how they can’t make as much money, you know this policy is working.
They have a sign at the front door that says “Human error is inevitable” and back it up with a policy that does not punish those that come forward and admit they made an error. Moreover, the hospital sends out a representative and doctor to apologize to former patients, or their survivors, and even refer them to legal counsel if they feel the need for remuneration.
The reason this is taking so long to filter through the health care system is two-fold:
1. Doctors are loathe to admit they are wrong, even when facing irrefutable evidence. Their hubris and unwarranted confidence is a major personal malfunction and unforgivable sin.
2. Lawyers who profit from the status quo ante will fight any move or policy that results in a lower paycheck for them.
These are two powerful and greedy groups, but the American public deserves the best, and that comes from free-market forces that allow businesses to make the best fiscal choices, even though it may make some doctors ashamed, and cost a few lawyers an extra million in revenue from the litigation lottery.
The wheels of big democracy grind slowly but eventually get there … if the wheels do roll too far at times. Lets face it, it wasn’t the “danishes and bagels,” it was the free trips to the Caribbean, Hawaii and/or Aspen with a “medical class” thrown in. That might still go on, who knows.
“But it’s still below 2002, when there were 12 bank failures.”
If I am not mistaken IndyMac cost more than all 12 of those.
I’d like to see Bob Hanson find people who support his museum to support it. Sell 5000 memberships at $100 per and that will also cover it.
Or split the money made on the 50 cent ticket surcharge among the various museums in Wichita on the basis of attendance. As a Kansas history buff that would help museums I am interested in.
How about putting a condensed version of the museum in the new Intrust Arena? Surely there’d be enough people who would want to visit and pay a nominal fee to defray housing costs, maintenance, etc.?
Robert … I was thinking of that as well, but I’m sure that is something that would have had to have been thought of prior to the arena design.
BTH … You also have a good idea, although I think it would still be easier to raise it 25 or 50 cents at a time.
And JWink … I can’t say I agree with you. I’m not sure what a ticket surcharge at a sporting event would have to do with, say, Cowtown. I think it would be hard enough to convince people in Lawrence sports fans to support a state-sanctioned sports museum in Wichita.
Put the Kansas sports Hall of Fame in the salt mine at Hutch. Kill 2 birds with one stone – they’re having a difficult time attracting visitors and it’s already fully staffed.
Being just a bit more serious, the clear solution to me, anyway, is to incorporate the exhibit into another existing museum to defray expenses. It is not viable as a stand alone entity and I am absolutely not in favor of paying surcharges on anything to fund something like that.
Not even a quarter Jerry? I’m talking two bits.
Sorry but I’m still stinging over that buck increase on my water bill due to too much rain
Bill,
I am curious of your opinion on the new Ken Mar TIF passed by the council. Also, do you believe there is a conflict of interest regarding Kevass Harding?
Thanks
Don – NO. My point is that those who believe the KSHOF is worthy of support can support it. Just like I do with my membership to the Zoo. Don’t tax the rest of us.
Onlu two bits? How about a 2 bit tax on tickets to buy me a new house?
The politicians should have a similar code.
This issue and Bob Lutz’ column today about next summer’s 75th anniversary of the National Baseball Congress tournament in Wichita – which is one of my favorite things on this Earth – left me pondering in the early morning hours today.
We write a lot about business models, and it should be pretty clear by now that the model at the HOF isn’t working. That’s why I have to side with Dan’s idea for a ticket surcharge.
And if you haven’t been to L-D lately, go take a look. It’s a rundown mess – faded outfield walls, restrooms with gang graffiti, advertising literally peeling off the walls. The only things up to date are the outrageous concession prices – a nice lady from Goddard apologized to me yesterday when I dropped $2.75 for a very good but small cup of sweet tea.
I wonder why Wichita is so apathetic about its sports history. I suspect the HOF is going to have to retool its management and business models to survive. As for Lutz’ ideas to spruce up next summer’s anniversary tournament, I look around L-D and wonder if anyone cares enough to even listen.
Jerry,
Having been to Ken Mar recently – and with the disclosure that I appreciate the historical and cultural significance of the area – I believe the Ken Mar TIF is one of the best-intentioned that the city has created. Unlike many in town, this one does appear consistent with the definition of a TIF – the redirection of tax revenues to improve a blighted area.
You might recall the the Maize IMAX theater idea died because the city couldn’t bring itself to declare an empty wheat field along K-96 a blighted area. It’s reassuring to find a governmental body with a conscience, isn’t it? In a nutshell, I see Ken Mar as a perfect spot for a TIF.
I’m not sure what you mean by a conflict of interest with Mr. Harding. His interest in the property has had more than a year to be vetted. Tell me more about what you mean.
Bill – I agree. I see the KenMar one as similar to the Hillside TIF by Wesley. Driven not by a few eclectic over-proced bars but by genuine commercial enterprises.
Thank you for the response. I’ll address Mr. Harding first. I have a rule of thumb I try to live by that states “if it can appear as a conflict of interest, treat it as it is a conflict of interest”.
Numerous comments have been made in this paper regarding the electorate being ignorant on City/County issues being the reason Tom Winters lost. While Mr. Harding may have been totally vetted (and I trust your opinion on that Bill) it simply does not pass the smell test. This is exactly how good people lose elected office.
TIF seems to be the flavor of the moment in the Wichita area and this concerns me greatly. This is a very slippery slope in which the more I am exposed to it the more I am against it.
My greatest concern is the council lacking the business acumen to make such decisions. I would like to see at a minimum a transparant meeting with the council and numerous local business members and academia to discuss the pros and cons of any TIF transaction. What is the business model? what is the marketing plan? What is the employment outlook? The number one question to me anyway is what is the ROI (return on investment)?
At the same time an independent accounting firm (preferably local) presents their review of the data presented.
That being said the numbers should meet established goals and criteria prior to reaching the council level. This combined with an EXACTING standard on what constitutes a blighted area or an area of historical significance should lead to the councils’ vote.
In closing I am absolutely in favor of economic development, however I feel there must be a strict justification process that the council needs to adhere to for these types of transactions.
“I wonder why Wichita is so apathetic about its sports history.”
I think I can address that a bit … and my comments will also show my antipathy to the Arena. A significant portion of our population is college educated – particularly those of us with significant disposable income. We tend to follow the college games – not local (semi)pro teams. Thus you will find me at Players cheering for my Bruins in basketball or maybe the Bulldogs in football. That is one of the reasons sports bars do so well here (and someone really had to try hard to fail at Oscars).
So, in regards to Wichita’s ’sports history’ many of us do not share that legacy.
bth you are right on the money.
BTH, I agree. Wichita is disinterested in professional sports, and has been as long as I’ve been around here.
It’s interesting that the NBC tournament – summer college baseball – consistently outdrew Triple-A and Double-A baseball.
Nonetheless, the HOF isn’t a professional sports museum. There’s a significant high school and college component.
And the city is letting L-D fall into disrepair. I submit that the apathy pervades professional and college sports. present and past, in Wichita.
NBC draws well because it is simple entertainment and during a ‘doldrum’ time. I remember my young son’s reaction getting a ball signed by the ‘big players’ one night. Of course, the players aren’t really all that big but to a 7-year-old they sure are.
I would think that baseball would be the exception to my rule – largely due to the fact that it needs smaller numbers to make it work and also that many of our colleges play much earlier. Of course, for me at least there IS the competition with my beloved Cubs and Red Sox!
If the HOF is going to succeed it needs to have a reasonable plan. For the life of me I cannot see having BOTH a KS and a Wichita HOF. Perhaps just one and perhaps on a smaller scale. Also, does it need a full-time director getting paid twice what the taxpayers make?
I suspect the Sports Commission has reached its high point when it convinced a narrow majority to vote for their Arena. Perhaps now they should focus some of their energy on raising donations to support their venues – including the HOF.
Interesting issue. How many of these couple would have been living together anyway – things have changed a lot over the decades. In fact, looking at the reverse, how many couples do NOT legally marry due to the possibility of LOSING survivor benefits etc.
Now, to open another can of worms – this is one of the reasons for the ‘gay marriage’ issue. If they are a ‘couple’ then why not allow the legal status?
The attitude for the museum has been “Build it and they will come.”, there is no business model. There should have been a restaurant in there. There should have been a private Kansas Athletic Club that was associated with the restaurant with preference to members and an annual meeting for inductees. It amazes me how worthless these museums have made themselves and wonder why no one wants to support them. There has to be something of value that brings people in and back. Bob Hanson adds no value to the Hall. I’m not sure what value he brings to Wichita.
That’s the trouble with the medical, dental and hospital businesses in a nutshell … they don’t guarantee anything they do and when they screw up, they still try to charge you.
About the NBC tournament … a few minutes ago I was driving by Lawrence-Dumont Stadium. I heard Michael Dean, the perennial score keeper from somewhere up by the Great Lakes, playing “Take me out to the ballgame” on his harmonica. Good job again Michael.
So I stopped by for a few minutes and talked to Paul and Betty, the traditional ticket takers at the NBC games. Paul has been working the Wichita baseball games so long, he started at the old Island Park in the Arkansas River next to the Broadview Hotel. Considering the first games in L-D Stadium were played in 1935 or 36, Paul must have started at the Island Park stadium in the early 1930’s.
Paul has told me that he reached that “island” baseball stadium by walking part way across the Douglas Street bridge and then walking down an old stairway, down to the southern tip of the island below the bridge. Then it was only a hop, skip and jump north to that Stadium entrance.
The story is that wooden stadium burned down. Later the old WPA, one of Franklin Roosevelt’s reconstruction programs, filled in the channel on the west side of the island, about where McLean Boulevard is today, using wheelbarrows and mule drawn drag lines to completely eliminate that historic storied old island park.
Somehow, about the same time, the WPA also built Lawrence Stadium, later renamed Lawrence-Dumont Stadium to honor Wichita’s father of baseball, Hap” Dumont. An interesting book about Hap Dumont and his experiences at Lawrence-Dumont Stadium is in most area libraries but I can’t think of its name right now.
Meanwhile on the east bank of the Arkansas River was the headquarters of the Arkansas Valley trolley line that headed out for Newton and Hutchinson and other Wichita suburban locations. The two story AVI building was adjacent to and on the west side of the Broadview hotel.
The historic, magnificent Broadview Hotel towered over the entire area, anchoring the west end of Wichita’s then busy Douglas Avenue, perhaps the busiest intersection in Wichita during the 1920’s to 1970’s.
On the west side of Waco, where Wichita Chamber of Commerce stands now, the southwest corner lot was reserved for another hotel about the size of the Broadview that was started but never finished. Also the old downtown Missouri Pacific Railroad station stood on that lot.
And to complete the railroad story, the Midland Railroad had a railroad station on the west side of McLean Boulevard, south of Douglas, where the Metropolitan Baptist Church is located today.
The Midland Railroad’s tracks ran south on the east side of L-D baseball stadium offering free seating to watch the baseball games on the outside of the right field fence.
So Wichita’s railroads, hotels and baseball seemed to go together in the old days.
No doubt. You don’t think hospitals are going eat those costs themselves, do you? *Somebody’s* got to pay!
Can you imagine the size of the TIF project to bring back those days of yore?
Did they say not BILL? Be careful when you get your next bill in the mail cause they might try to adjust other areas (hidden fees for their mistakes). I was one of them that was billed incorrectly but still had to cough up the dough!
“Arkansas Valley trolley line that headed out for Newton and Hutchinson and other Wichita suburban locations”
While a bit different perhaps a ‘local’ trolley throughout downtown might be something worth supporting. Such downtown transportation might help answer the parking question about the Arena and also help with parking problems in Old Town.
This would allow me to come downtown; do dinner at one place, perhaps take in a show, a drink somewhere afterwards, then back to my car. Only have to park once.
We need to start thinking ‘outside of the box’ in finding ways to make downtown successful.
Bth,
I am so glad you wrote that. I agree completely.
The transit in this town is a complete waste. I challenge anyone to take a look at this website and tell me what the benefit is.
http://www.wichitagov.org/CityOffices/Transit/BusRoutes/system_map.htm
Take the top 10 employers in the city. Take the top 5 business districts. Is anyone serviced?
It is an absolute shame.
prairiedog,
I’m interested in what you mean by “adds no value” to the HOF in regards to Mr. Hanson.
As a volunteer for the Hall of Fame, I know that Mr. Hanson is NOT an employee here but gives his time and efforts voluntarily as well. He works very hard to support the future of this great organization and knows the true value it brings to our community.
With the moon headed to Full as it rose above Lawrence-Dumont Stadium earlier this evening, the final championship game was played with the Santa Barbara Foresters emerging as the winner and the Seattle Studs the runners up.
After a variety of awards were announced by the NBC staff and the final shakes and hugs given, these NBC championship teams entered their large traveling buses to leave L-D stadium to head for homes and/or colleges in many cases.
While it’s warm this evening and the conviviality is still echoing in the night … the cool north winds will soon arrive to begin another fall and winter.
College football anyone?
jerry – I plan to work out in more detail a transit proposal that might just work here in Wichita. I start rather conservatively – trying to serve the area between Ridge and Hillside and about Pawnee to 29th N. Couple that with almost saturation downtown from Delano to Old Town (and points in between) during ‘critical’ times. I’d add special park-and-ride service for events when and if they occur.
This could be done with existing infrastructure. Then, if this works, we can build upon it.
bth: I think the Wichita transit bus routes should be extended south to Haysville and north to Park City. I looked into extending the system to Haysville perhaps three years ago and gave a voluntary written report to the Haysville mayor. The main point I recall is that the projected ridership might not justify the expense.
I really look forward to seeing your ideas, especially the park and ride. The area has some pretty large parking areas on the outskirts that would allow the funneling of people downtown.
I would like to see major east/west (Goddard/Andover) and North/South (Newton/Mulvane-train?) trunk lines. As an employer I think it would be a nice “perk” if I supplied shuttle service from the trunk line to the front door. Add simple, straight line of sight branch lines in key areas combined with downtown saturation (trolley, monorail or buses) and I truly think we could have something nice.
This is a great city that desperately needs some infrastructure. Safe, dependable, cost-effective transit would really make this place attractive for new businesses, conventions and families.
While I would LOVE to have the out-lying trunk lines (like we had in Chicago area) I am staying conservative – at least to start. Trying to work with only existing infrastructure and rolling stock.
Ridership is in many ways a ‘chicken-egg’ question – and right now I cannot ‘prove’ that riders will use a system if I build it. So, instead, I just want to look at re-deploying what we have.
The other BIG problem:
Hours:
6AM – 6:30PM, M – F
7AM – 5:30PM, Sat
So, if I get out of work late …
I wish you luck and if there is a way I can help please let me know!
bth: You just reminded me why transit BUSES will probably always be preferable to electric transit vehicles on tracks. Buses are a lot more flexible.
Of course, as we know, Wichita had a full fledged electric trolley system back in the years before 1940 that finally succumbed to the automobile. I know it went to Newton, Halstead and Hutchinson. I haven’t had time to research if it went south towards Wellington. I think it did because someone pointed out an old embankment going through Waco-Wigo vicinity down south of Haysville. I know from the old maps, a trolley line went up through Riverside area with a turn around in front of the “Perk.”
I wonder if there is a map of the old trolley lines in the 1930’s?
Incidentally, I would like to see a “Museum of Old Cameras and Photographic Equipment,” replace or augment the Kansas Sports Hall of Fame. I think a lot of interest might exist and a lot of old photographic equipment is becoming extinct with the new digital stuff.
I wonder how to get the ball rolling on this idea?.
I’d rather take your word for it rather than have to experience this first hand given the usual life changing stressors associated with hospitals. On the other hand, flavorable food can be an emotional comfort strategy…
As a civic activist mentioned recently, it would be better if the Wichita City Council quit using these TIF (tax increment financing) districts to white-wash the tax monies they want to contribute to private developers. The city council should go ahead and write checks using the taxpayers money. After the hoopla ends, that’s basically what the City Council is trying to accomplish.
By paying tax money directly to private developers, the subterfuge of giving the money away on flimsy excuses and reducing taxes for schools and other uses would not be needed by the Wichita City Council.
Also remember, a special tax is already assessed against property owners in the central business district. This is used to support the so-called Downtown Business Corporation which cost a small fortune to support the “Music Man of Wichita,” Ed Wolverton, who fled for the east coast when the “band uniforms didn’t arrive.”
As usual in Wichita, looks like everybody is grabbing for the same tax dollars and using the 1/2 billion dollar unwanted, unneeded white elephant downtown ice hockey arena as the excuse.
Incidentally, can anyone remember who wanted this 1/2 billion tax dollar albatross arena other than the three holdover Sedgwick County Commissioners, TOM WINTERS (soon to be gone), DAVE UNRUH AND TIM NORTON.
Remember that old Communist Party saying: “Take taxes from the hard working middle class taxpayers of Wichita, all of whom have better uses for their money, according to their talents and abilities …… and give to private developers who want your hard earned tax money to spend on their personal visions and dreams whether or not they have any possible chance of success.”
JW, I have a hard time equating TIF money with a direct government handout, since its nature actually is rebated tax proceeds from increased development value. Instead, a TIF, to this layman, actually is a government bet on the success of a development.
Which isn’t to say that TIFs are perfect development tools. An argument can be made – and apparently is by the county – that the packages are being handed out by City Hall without proper analysis and monitoring.
Again, it seems dangerous to me to drift away from the public-private partnership to redevelop downtown. That partnership can certainly be improved, but any move away from it is foolhardy, in my view.
I find it somewhat amusing that the County complains that TIF money might be used for infrastructure in support of their Arena. County seems to be saying that the City should be paying for that infrastructure directly. NO! That infrastructure should be paid for from the $200+ million sales tax collected.
In their ads for their Arena the County claimed that the sales tax would cover infrastructure, parking, and operating reserves. Unfortunately cost overruns in construction have depleted those funds. So, the City is picking up the tab for infrastructure. It should come as no surprise that the City would want to shift at least some of that Arena-related cost to other taxing agencies.
As for “the success of Old Town” I would note that these are other TIFs that are not paying their way.
Successful TIFs are those that are primarily private-driven. A good example is Central/Hillside; I expect Ken-Mar will be similar. In these cases the public portion acts as a catalyst; in these others (Old Town, WaterWalk, Arena) public money has predomiated.
“Does the creation of a commission and a cost-benefit analysis accomplish that?”
I believe that is an excellent start. I would only add that I would set some type of “not-to-exceed” financial number on the City Council and if that was to be exceeded it needed to be on the ballot.
Rather amusing that those who killed health care reform now seem to want health care reform.
Seems like a good “tie-in” to our Wichita Air Festival!
There are certainly some parameters that could be established, Jerry. I agree.
“No TIFs,” though, wouldn’t be one of them, in my view.
What is wrong with letting individual actors in the free-market sort out the winners and losers? Why do governments always feel the need to take from some and give to others?
It isn’t a given that development anywhere “needs” to be a public-private partnership. Governments should get out of the way and let the market work.
I’d like to see a required ration of private:public. I think when you look at the ones I mentioned above you will see that the ‘good’ ones had a large ratio; the ‘not-so-good’ ones a low ratio.
I think some of your forget what TIF’s really do.
What it does it helps pay for the public access improvements in the area. They are not free give-a-ways to developers.
What the City wants to do is redo the streets (converting some of the one-ways to two-way, sidewalks, street lighting, public parking, tear down blighted and abandon buildings, landscaping and etc. This take a considerable amount of money to do, and what the TIF does it helps pay for that cost by the property tax collected in that district.
The county and the school district wouldn’t get their take from the area until it was repaid, and that is the ONLY draw back. It is intra-governmental fighting over who gets to keep the tax dollars for their coffers.
I think that TIF’s are a very good thing. It gets things done.
I agree that they can be good things when used properly. However, when used to pay for things that wuld normally be paid for by the developers (e.g. parking) then I wonder if they are going too far. Even with streets etc – I am paying for the streets in my development myself – while still paying property taxes. An alternative to a TIF in such cases might be a benefit district.
I favor TIFs in places like KenMar and Central/hillside. In these developments we also have substantial private investment – the TIF is a catalyst. However, in some others the magnitude of public investment is just too large – and these are the ones having problems paying off their bonds.
My favorite sports bar – Players – had to pay for the parking lot I use when I go there to watch a ball game. Why should their competition (Heros, Oscars) have their parking funded through tax dollars?
ictBest and bth make precise and accurate points, with the latter pointing out accurately how TIFs can stray from their intended purpose.
As for the free market point above, I think history is pretty clear: Downtown didn’t redevelop at all. It deteriorated, and a deteriorating downtown benefits no one. I don’t agree – at all – that the public has no proper role in development.
I agree with ictBest – TIFs are miscast as a government giveaway. As I may not have been clear enough earlier, they are a tax revenue deferral that’s a bet on the part of governments in the success of a redevelopment district. That would be why it’s essential, I think, for governments to remain vigilant on projects after they grant a TIF.
bth is spot on.
All the politicians in Congress from 1994 who voted to kill heath care (with nothing proposed in its stead) should be made to wear a scarlet “H” for “hypocrite” on their Brooks Brothers suits and Ferragamo loafers.
We should celebrate National Aviation Day every day here in Wichita. If it wasn’t for the airplane business, Wichita would be just another nice small town on the prairie.
I think there can be another role for local government here – assembling small parcels for re-development. There is a national brogram called ‘brownfields’ that relates to this since in many cases there are also environmental issues to be considered. This also brings in another can of worms – eminent domain. While I instinctively tend to oppose eminent domain there are exceptions. One might be in a situation where many parcels have been assembled via negotiation but a couple of small pieces remain. In some cases, in fact, a fractional ownership might exist where the owner cannot even be found or things are tied up in probate etc. So, some mechanism to assemble these needs to exist.
Some years ago I discussed this issue with an attorney who specialized in fighting eminent domain matters. Even he agreed that there is a place for its use.
It is so easy to go out in the country and buy a Section of land from a farmer. It can be MUCH harder to do the same in a City with a hundred owners. Add environmental due diligence issues and a lot of developers will just walk away. So, the need for mechanisms.
Or leased, as the ground under the SC Telcom building was prior to its acquisition by the Minnesota Guys. Good point.
There’s a happy medium that can and should be reached here, and I think the Kansas City model is a start – with citizen and elected oversight. I’m inclined to agree that the city’s been a little too anxious to partner with developers without dealing their constituents in on the decision. It’s just hard for me to find fault with their willingness to buy into these deals.
The danger still falls, I think, in the short-sightedness of the “no taxes, no way” attitude. Would Oklahoma City’s Bricktown have become an entertainment mecca without a publicly-voted bond issue? The answer is a categorical no, but maybe we can learn something from the approach.
Without Bricktown, though, Oklahoma City doesn’t become a major league sports city.
On eminent domain – it is interesting that my conversation with the attorney was with one who was pretty much a ‘hawk’ on private property rights. However he agreed that there must be exceptions.
As a patient I’d like to see internet supplement other avenues of communication.
I believe this could be a good idea is used (internet) is used wisely.
That should be “privacy breaches.” Breeches are hindquarters. Unless that is what they were showing.
Keep the picture — I look at you every day. But I’m predicting $3.59.
I’ll play.
I’ll go $3.63 – and two retailers injured sprinting to their outdoor signs, the long pole and the box of numbers in their clutches.
I’ll go $3.70, and, no disrespect intended, you may keep the picture.
Professor Jabara is indeed a great man and a kind person. I often see him in the grocery store, on Sunday mornings after first service, purchasing groceries for a friend.
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
We all lose.
Now, as I drove in this morning I noticed NO movement whatsoever in the price of unleaded.
This comes a couple of weeks after a $2.50 move on a barrel of oil caused a Usain Bolt-like run out to the pricing boards at every C-store in town.
The day’s young, but my faith – I can’t come up with a better word this morning – in the reliability of gas pricing has been shaken.
Oil down 3 bucks today …
“The state’s casino board decided Friday morning that Harrah’s Entertainment-Sumner Gaming and Resorts would build and manage Sumner County’s casino”
comments?
$6.44 at 2:30 Friday.
What a fool I am for filling up last night.
Very interesting.
I’m just happy it’s finally decided, and actually pleased it’s going in at exit 33. I thought aesthetically it was the nicer proposal.
But I’m not a big fan because I have never believed that a casino is the economic “cure-all” that supporters and many politicians believe. The sooner one is built the sooner we’ll know I guess!
For the people of Wellington, I’m sorry. To quote Shelly Hansel: “It sucks. It absolutely sucks…”
I would encourage people to check out http://www.relayhealth.com This company has already established coverage from several Health Plan carriers. They also give the patient the ability to pay for a online consultation out of pocket if their insurance plan doesn’t cover it. My doctor uses it and my kid’s pediatrician uses it.
Given the fact that they increase health insurance costs it makes a certain amount of sense to charge them. As long as there is a ‘way out’ for the worker (as seems to be the case here) then it just might be a good idea.
In early 2004 I was told that due to the health problems of one employee (heart condition) I could have reduced the individual employee premiums by over $125.00 each by eliminating that one employee. We had 13 employees at the time. That is not a solution to rising health care costs.
How do you handle “obese” health care issues like depression, diabetes, lupus? Because someone is overweight thay should not be discriminated against, for any reason. They can either do the job or they can’t. That is the employer’s responsibility to make that decision.
This “slippery slope” needs to be stopped immediately. We may be only a few years away from genetic markers that if we continue down this path of judge and jury will make health care coverage a true thing of the past for many individuals.
Is it just too simple to allow small business to pool companies to decrease insurance premiums?
Jerry – I think this answers at least some of your concerns:
“employees will have a year to see a doctor at no cost, enroll in a wellness program, or take steps on their own to improve their health. If they show progress in a follow-up screening, they won’t be charged”
Hi bth,
Thank you for the response but I am still not in favor of it. Let’s say that there is a race of people that have a much higher risk of liver disease than another. Should they be subjected to higher insurance rates? Should they be denied insurance altogether? Should they be denied employment?
I feel we should avoid that path at all costs.
All the best!
Interesting that Wichita Downtown Development Corporation’s former leader, Ed Wolverton, and the holdover Sedgwick County Commissioners, Winters, Norton and Unruh, were the chief culprits along with some fellow travelers, in bringing us their vaunted $500,000,000.13 ice hockey downtown arena that now threatens everything good we wanted for Wichita.
They should have listened to the public when the arena idea first lifted its head but they thought they knew best what was good for the people of Wichita and Sedgwick County.
I suspect Wichita is going to have to find some alternative use for the white elephant arena to try to offset the huge operational expenses that will soon arrive when the arena opens.
So Jeffrey Fluhr I hope this is more than just a stepping stone job for you like it has been for all the other out of town “hired gun bureaucrats” who have come to Wichita. They all come offering new band uniforms but like the MUSIC MAN SHOW, after they take the money, the band uniforms never seem to arrive.
Slippery slope – agreed. And the devil is in the details. BUT – if it is the sort of thing that can be addressed as indicated and IF not punitive it might not be a bad thing.
You are correct though – tread carefully.
Interesting question. I, for one, would happily discuss ideas with him. I have supported some things and opposed others. I have voted for school bonds and, based on what I understand, support KenMar and Central/Hillside TIFs. I helped establish the ‘reverse’ TIF that supported so much downtown by dealing with the Gilbert/Mosley pollution.
I opposed WaterWalk from the start. I gave detailed comments to City Council. My comments were deleted from the minutes with just a statement ‘bth spoke against the project.’ I don’t think that is the way to “invigorate a dialogue”
Fluhr has a long track record of trying to incorporate all opinions – not just favorable ones – in downtown planning. Hopefully, both proponents and opponents of the current downtown redevelopment strategy will take the time to talk – and listen – to him.
There are two camps of the so called “anit-tax” crowd. One group, such as Karl Peterjohn and a few others actually have respectable and philosophical standings behind their quest behind low taxes and reliance on privatization. These are people who really know their stuff, research and gather data and present it for case of debate.
The others, a very small group, have a vindictive nature behind their stance. Not only do they present false and nonfactual information, but they have no relevance to the debate for the future of downtown or our city. Basically squatters coming in from another part of the state and bringing their baggage of negativity with them. JWink is one of those. So I seriously doubt that Fluhr will ever give the time of day to the JWinks, because its a waste of time and unproductive.
bth and Bill Wilson are the exceptional and intelligent members of our community and rightly deserve to have their voices heard on the direction of downtown and the city of Wichita.
ictbest/Joe: Now that Ed Wolverton is long gone and Tom Winters will soon be gone, I presume you are now the de facto spokesman for the final two holdover Sedgwick county commissioners who pushed for the downtown white elephant arena, Tim Norton and Dave Unruh. Do they write your comments for you?
Somewhere you said renovating the Kansas Coliseum would have been paid for with bond financing. WRONG! WRONG AGAIN. You are echoing the BIG LIES previously told by the pro-arena people.
Most likely the $60 million dollars or so of Kansas Coliseum costs would have been paid with a sales tax just like the super expensive 1/2 billion dollar downtown arena. If we had done that, perhaps Wink Hartman and his staff would have contracted to operate the renovated Kansas Coliseum. I have been told that renovation would have made the Kansas Coliseum a sparkling jewell for southern Kansas, a beautiful arena with even more parking, more ingress and egress, more restrooms, wider corridors, etc.
It would be connected to the now closed dog racing track property for uses not even considered so far.
And we wouldn’t have needed some 90 additional police officers downtown to protect pedestrians as they walk up alleys, down dark streets, through railroad underpasses to and from the downtown arena.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE COULD HAVE USED THE REMAINING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO RESTORE DOWNTOWN WICHITA INTO A SPARKLING JEWELL THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DESTINATION FOR PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Whatever the past the Arene is a reality. I hope those behind it can make it work. BUT – they need to recognize that it passed only narrowly and that many who voted ‘Yea’ have said they would now vote ‘Nay’.
The Arena has, in many ways, poisoned the well. It was one of the factor in the failure of the Casino vote. Many of the Arena backers were involved with the Casino push and the growing distrust of them translated into ‘No’ votes. While these were not the only votes against the Casino (obviously the ‘moral objectors’ were important) they provided the margin. That is how an initial 70% approval for the Casino turned into a 45% defeat – and it was predicted in detail.
Now we face a school bond issue which I consider important to see passed. Unfortunately it, too, shares high-profile backers with the Arena. I fear that this will bring it down. I sincerely hope I am wrong on this – 259 schools direly need the money.
Like Fahnestock I live outside of 259. However I work and shop inside the districtso the tax increase will pass on to me just like it will to Fahnestock. If I lived there I would vote for it just as I have voted for ours in 265. Let’s hope it passes.
JWink’s citation of The Music Man is inaccurate; at the end of The Music Man the high-school students do get their uniforms.
“That group, he said, might have ideas to help further the city’s growth plans”
He better realize that there is no such thing as “That group” – there are many DIFFERENT groups and individuals who have questioned various public spending projects. Looking at the Arena TIF proposal it was the County Commission (Arena SUPPORTERS) who questioned its wisdom.
The key to obtaining approval for projects will be coalition-building. This must be done if we are going to have the support for downtown that Brewer and others want. And they have failed miserably in building such a coalition.
bth, I could not agree more. Coalition-building is a clear path to broader public confidence. We tend to struggle in Wichita bringing together diverse interests to bring a coalition, largely because we struggle shaping a message.
I’m not an arena opponent; quite the contrary, I think that the selection of SMG as a manager is a guarantee that we’ll be pleasantly surprised at its success. And I think the public dialogue on the arena project was better than we’re accustomed to in Wichita.
With that said, though, Fluhr brings a breath of fresh air to a city that tends to force-feed major economic decisions to the populace. I think it can be argued that some of today’s anti-tax sentiment is fueled by that force-feeding.
Again, I think there’s a place for a public-private partnership in the economic redevelopment of downtown, and in Wichita’s economic development as a whole. Rejecting such out-of-hand is both short-sighted and extremely dangerous to Wichita’s future. If you’re upset over government’s role in the new Cessna plant or in the construction of the Jabara tech ed center, then you need to closely examine the alternative: The departure from Wichita of our plane makers.
It must be a transparent partnership, though, and it must be a partnership formed out of community dialogue. If city and county government, and Fluhr, fail at that, there’s a collision coming down the road that fails all of us.
The President of the U.S. should force the resignation of the presidents of the various American oil companies because they are obviously playing the old shell game with prices of gasoline to American consumers. It’s not up to the gasoline companies to keep gasoline prices high and thereby making obscene profits.
Keeping gasoline prices high might have social value such as 1) less green house gas pollution, 2) less wear and tear on highways and roadways, 3) less traffic congestion, 4) less importation of foreign automobiles, 5) higher birth rates (I just threw that in to see if you were paying attention). IF needed, intentional rationing of gasoline should be done by, I hate to say it, government, not by the gasoline production and marketing companies.
I think the next 18 months will be real interesting. The Arena opening in early 2010 will say a lot and a lot will be riding on a strong opening act. Let’s hope SMG gets something good.
A sort of aside – something I have noticed that bugs me a bit. C-II has numerous sellouts – routinely brings in about 2000 or so people. However, I don’t see many reastuarants within walking distance – pretty much only the struggling Broadview. Any thoughts why?
We should all remember that Peterjohn will not necessarily be walking into that Commission seat. He has a credible opponent in Marcey Gregory, Mayor of Goddard. If the voters want to move Wichita forward, she will win. If they want to stand still with a guy who’s been nothing but a “no” vote for lots of things (like bth says, some of the things he’s against have been valuable) then so be it. But we are at a critical point on many issues — downtown redevelopment included — and it seems to me we need to elect reasonable people to balance the need for fiscal accountability with growing this community. Fluhr brings us a real opportunity to come together and discuss valuable options — I, for one hope that he’ll be talking with Gregory as an elected official on the Commission and not Peterjohn.
Absolutely right, Bill. I ran to the pumps on Saturday ahead of Gustav’s landfall because an analyst on a cable news channel predicted $5 gas if infrastructure in the gulf was severely damaged or pulled offline for a substantial period of time. Sounded reasonable, I thought, considering the spike in the price of gas following Katrina. But since I filled up the price of gas fell two cents at the station to which I went. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Your post brings up two questions: What is the current barrel price down to and what was the national average per gallon of gas the last time the barrel price was at this point? Without seeing the numbers, how come the price at the pump isn’t retreating as fast as it shot up?
Early last week I filled up for $3.38 and, at the time, thought it was a heckuva deal. Sad, isn’t it?
I would respond to JWink’s comment by saying that there is a difference between supply rationing and price gouging.
Yes, lets hope no more in Kansas go belly up. My sister had deposits in the Alpharetta Bank that failed, but fortunately, for her the deposits will be O.K. since the other bank took them over.
It’s difficult to follow the moving target rationales for the price of gasoline at the pump – but I do recall that it wasn’t long ago we were told at both the governmental and industry level that we had crossed the point of no return on demand over supply and would never see gas fall again.
And yet, two months later, here we are.
I don’t profess to be an expert, but it appears clear to me that unregulated oil speculators are the culprit for the run-up, with decreasing demand the influence that has cut them off at the pass.
So personally, as we move into the home stretch of the presidential campaign, I’d like to know why speculators have been allowed an unregulated frontal assault on the U.S. economy.
Arena neighborhood development is a curious animal. I believe it’s clearly been hurt by the lack of a leader at City Hall and in the WDDC office. Those positions both will be filled.
And I hear rumblings that the state’s work release center has been a significant wet blanket in early efforts to move property around the arena.
Also note that Marcey Gregory is a business owner. So, she understands what it takes to run a business in the downtown area. I don’t know that Peterjohn has even had a real private-sector job; much less run a business.
Bill – the area I am talking about is not near the Arena but near C-II. We have had a successful venue there (albeit smaller scale) but haev not seen ancillary development. With ROUTINE 2000 attendence one would think there would be some such development.
“I’d like to know why speculators have been allowed an unregulated frontal assault on the U.S. economy.”
Unfetterred and unregulated ‘free market’
Warning-I am waaayyy over my head here!
I thought there was a direct correlation between the SEC banning “naked shorting” and the drop in oil prices, along with the perceived increase in performance at financial institutions.
I’m not smart enough to explain why. Just an observation.
bth, the words “free market” chill me, much as the recitation of my full name from my late father used to chill me as a child.
Either way, a spanking was soon to follow.
I’m not sure that’s enough irregular attendance to pull that off, bth, given the business models that a handful of local restaurateurs I know operate under.
Bill – you may be correct. However, I would note that, unlike the arena, C-II pulls 2000+ weekly or better. Thus my claim that 300,000 is more than 300,000: 1500*200 nights (C-II) has much more impact than 15,000*20 nights (Arena – THEY HOPE).
In other words – if irregular attendence cannot support ancillary business when it is weekly then how can monthly (at best) crowds do the same?
MTW alone fills C-II about 30 times a season. Add WGO, Symphony, etc and there should be a fairly constant stream. And, I would add, an affluent demographic.
Well said. My passwords have hurt me more than protect me.
I echo Jerry’s sentiments.
And while I’m at it, another beef directed at our corporate sources:
If I need to talk to you, I need to talk to you today. I need a telephone number. I don’t need a gigantic e-mail form you may or may not see soon.
It makes me feel old, growing up in an era when you could pick up the phone and call anyone – then fast-forwarding to today where companies do EVERYTHING in their powers to avoid you, from pre-recorded “press one for” threads to these idiotic e-mail forms that are designed specifically to avoid people.
The doctors and insurers aren’t the only problem. The problem is the government that mandates coverages for lifestyle choices, such as drugs, alcohol, smoking, and obesity, as well as the “get happy” society that abuses the mental and nervous coverage mandates.
The solution isn’t the government, because they take a solution and create a problem. Doctors are providers, and should be removed from the financing of health care (insurance). The best solutions I’ve seen are where private companies opt out of state mandates for group insurance and provide coverage through a self-funded plan.
One employer, with over 6,000 employees nationwide, reported 0.06% in total plan cost inflation over 6 years, without lowering benefits, and without increasing employee cost. That’s 0.01% inflation per year.
How? They canceled their group plan, with it’s many state mandates, and created a self-funded trust with strict controls over behaviors and choices that adversely affect health and job performance.
First, they mandated participation in the wellness program. Those that refused to participate found other employment.
Second, they mandated smoking cessation. Those that want to smoke found employment elsewhere.
Third, those who were obese were required to lose weight, maintain proper BMI, or find other employment.
Fourth, they mandated the EAP, or Employee Assistance Program, be the gatekeeper for any and all treatment for mental and nervous disorders. These plans cost about $2 per month, and include 6 visits to a mental health professional with no co-pay. This move eliminated all coverage for “get happy” pills being prescribed by family physicians who are generally not qualified to diagnose or treat for mental health. With the rare exception of an organic problem where medicine is necessary, ALL people who wanted “get happy” pills had to get therapy to develop coping skills and learn how to deal with the stressors in life. If someone was addicted to a psychotropic/psychoactive drug for a non-organic mental/nervous issue, then they would have to pay 100% of the cost if the Rx was prescribed by a family doctor, if they didn’t seek therapy. Over 90% of claims for these drugs dried up virtually over night.
End result: Productivity is up, absenteeism is down, presenteeism is down, and that all translates to an improved bottom line while enabling this company to compete in a global marketplace.
The solutions to fix health care financing already exist. All we need is to kick the government out of the patient room, and kick the government out of the business decision process at private employers, and we can all enjoy the best care without turning to failed ideologies like socialism and communism.
When I was accepted into the plumbers union 15 years ago I could not stand to take the 15 minute break in the morning and afternoon. But I now have experienced that the break allows a person to recover and do better work more efficiently. We get the same amount of work done in the same or less time. And less rework and be more refreshed after a days work.
What if my crew of prozac popping fat smokers out-perform the workers who are deemed “healthy”?
I’m not sure you can reform the health care industry without reforming government first. With proper reform employees health patterns would fall in line.
Also, I find the claim that this enabled the company to compete in a global marketplace highly dubious.
How can fat, pill-popping smokers outperform other workers when they’re spending all their time in doctor office waiting rooms?
It was a tongue-in-cheek response to a post I believe is way off the mark. When employers try to force employees to change their personal behavioral habits yes, there may be a bit of success. But the ones that truly win are the lawyers leading the litigation between the employees and employers.
Maybe the answer to the question “Who screwed up our health care system-doctors or insurance carriers?” is neither. How about lawyers and the court system.
So long as we failed to recognized that Health Insurance is really Health Coverage.
Insurance is spreading the risk for a low probability event. What is being offered is a Health Coverage policy. Is it the best way to facilitate health care?
I’m not for sure. But I think if we just went back, before the HMO’s and the legislative forced health coverage on insurance policies, we can see a drastic reduction in health insurance.
Basically, Health Insurance is for those times when there is an accident or chronic care. The rest of the cost, routine doctor visits, pharma pills (not related to chronic health problems), broken bones, test and etc. Then we can see the market place react, such as it is doing now in $4 prescriptions, minute clinics in Walgreens and etc. These are great solutions to the rising cost of medical health needs.
As far as people who cannot afford it? Their is medicaid and charity clinics and hospitals across the country.
We are going to have to get rid of the NIMBY fear that everybody has, and move forward on bridge energies. Natural Gas for transportation, nuclear and clean coal.
The Wichita area needs to rid itself from Westar also. A nuclear plant outside the Wichita area to service the needs of S.C. Kansas and ran by another company, other than Westar…maybe ran by the county or city (remember the coal gasification plant in the 1970’s?) much like many communities do.
I’m not bagging on Westar for rake hikes or anything like that. Nothing against them, but I know that Westar (former mayor Bob Knight knew this too) that they do not have the interest of S.C. Kansas in mind. Their focus is primarily to the N.E. Kansas area.
I don’t know that a city-owned nuclear plant makes sense at this time. The capital costs are just too high. However, a variety of “community wind” might make sense. K-State has been working on the structure for wind turbines that would be owned BY the community FOR the community. This could feed a local grid. A MSW incinerator can also feed the local grid.
I would then look to partner with Westar for nuclear power. I think that nuclear is likely to be more regional than local.
One point in favor of your idea Joe is the new small ‘microsphere’ design that is being developed for nuclear power. I’m not sure of the current state of development but they are to be smaller and thus might make sense for local use.
Joe – even better – for maintainence drugs it’s 10 bucks for three months at Dillons.
Where I work they are starting to implement wellness programs I think companies are beginning to realize that our desk-bound workforce is suffering health impacts as a result. Add to that infinite coffee drinking and sugar/salt. I have suggested that alongside the junk in the break room they have apples, oranges, V-8, etc. I would bet the cost would be more than offset by savings in health costs and in improved producivity.
It might also be useful to rotate assignments so we get up and walk around – carrying stuff etc. Especially if we can get outside a bit.
Explain the difference between insurance and coverage more for me please.
I think the point is that ‘coverage’ is for routine care and ‘insurance’ is for accidents and illnesses. I would disagree with Joe about broken bones – I’d put those in the insurance basket.
I’m beginning to like the combination high deductable/HSA system although there are times it seems that you have to be an accountant to keep everything straight.
Boo-hoo Dillards. I went there with my two children on Labor Day because I wanted to get each of them a pair of Merrell shoes for school. After waiting for a salesperson to come help up for over 15 minutes in the children’s shoe department, I wrote down the styles and sizes we needed and went home and ordered them from zappos.com… they arrived the next day.
I saw another family walk out too.
Do doctors/hospitals give you the “insurance rate” when you have a HSA? My son had pediatric hernia surgery last month and the total bill from the hospital/surgeons was $8500. Insurance allowed $3500 and the rest was written off.
I almost slept right through this post!
I think it depends on how the high-deductable insurance plan handles it.
Just as they say, “all politics is local” same can be said about the economy.
But it is a major concern. 6.1% is the measurable unemployment. There are plenty of people dropping of the unemployment stats that are still unemployed.
I also heard that SSDI applicants are increasing 2.5 million people a year. The backlog is so long for evaluating cases of disability, that SSA is requesting millions from the Congress to hire thousands of new case judges to hear SSDI claims.
So you can put at least 2.5 million needing SSDI each year, which contributes to unemployment too.
The good thing is that we don’t have it as bad as Europe, but the economy is a wave. So long as Wichita is in good shape, I think we will be fine.
Wichita can tend to be a metaphor as a place in the center of the country, away from the coasts.
So I think he was referring to that, more than Wichita itself.
But we all know that Wichita is a diamond in the rough, but we can always use a little polishing.
“The good thing is that we don’t have it as bad as Europe”
Actually we do not know that. Their numbers look higher but that is because they count everyone who is out of work. If used their statistical methodology our unemployment rate would be about 7.5-8%
The best salespeople for Wichita are those us us who came from elsewhere. I have lived in BOTH of the regions represented by Burkel’s Medical Marketing & Media (as wlll as other regions); I choose to live in Wichita.
Doctors or health insurance companies? If those are the only alternatives, I choose both.
But where are politicians? Lobbyists? Big Pharma?And what about patients who don’t take care of themselves? Hospitals that don’t take care of their patients?
Or the arrogance of a country that thinks it knows all the answers when its people don’t even know the questions.
Add all that into the equation, and you’ve got a good recipe for a system that’s FUBAR.
I\’m pleased that i found this blog today, its a wonderful resource and i will make sure to show to my wife when i get home !
Before 1943 few in this country had any form of health insurance. If they did, they called it hospitalization, because it only helped with unexpected expenses in a catastrophic situation at a hospital.
The premiums were very cheap. It didn’t cover doctor visits, prescriptions, maternity, or many other conditions that are now expected to be covered by health insurance.
Most people made every effort to stay healthy and tried to set aside funds in the budget in case a family member needed medical care. They had a friendly relationship with their local physician.
In the 1950’s my father was a car mechanic and traded services with our doctor in case he needed to treat one of our family members.
We have now become a nation of unhealthy people who see no direct correlation to our life style choices and our wallet. We expect the top of the line care and want someone else to pay for it.
We want the insurance company to accept everyone and not base premiums on potential risk because that isn’t fair. Then we wonder why premiums are so high and many people choose not to have insurance until they have a health issue.
We expect our employer or the government to pay our premiums to an insurance company who should then pay for any conceivable claim we have. Then we wonder why we haven’t had a raise in three years, and complain about how much is withheld in taxes from our paycheck.
Before more people develop uninsurable conditions, maybe we should look at an alternative.
What if we all purchased our own plan like we do our car and home owners insurance? What if it had nothing to do with our employer. (For over 50% of employees of small businesses this is reality.)
Many of them have already purchased a private health plan.
They now realize this:
1) The healthier you are when purchasing, the lower the rate. Once you have a policy, the carrier cannot raise your rate or drop you based upon your claims (Lesson:apply while you are healthy)
2) If you stop smoking, and lower your weight to within a normal BMI, you can save between 30%-70% on the premium (Lesson: make healthy choices and save)
3)The younger you are, the lower the premium (Lesson: since the majority of the uninsured are young and healthy, most could afford a policy)My 26 year old pays $37 a month for 5 million dollars of coverage.
4)The higher the deductible, the lower the premium. An HSA qualified plan limits your out of pocket. (Lesson: pick the low premium, budget for the small things and use your insurance plan to protect from the catastrophic)
5)Aprivate plan is truly portable. (Lesson: you never have to consider a health plan when considering a career.)
6)Nearly all carriers now offer individual policies giving more choice to the consumer.
7)Most states have a high risk pool for those whose health issues prevent them from purchasing a private plan.
Maybe so many employers not offering health insurance has a silver lining. People have found a better alternative.
DAN LOVING — MY QUESTION FOR MR. T. BOONE PICKENS:
I believe your proposal is to assemble a land easement or pathway across Texas and Oklahoma towards southwestern Kansas on which to build a line of wind energy windmills and electrical power transmission lines.
Is this actually a subterfuge to build an underground pipeline in the easement to drain the Ogallala deep underground water aquifers under Kansas and Oklahoma south to Texas to sell the water to the large metropolitan areas in Texas and Mexico that desperately need water?
I presume you know this would lead to destroying our relatively pure Ogallala underground water sources in Kansas and Oklahoma that have very little ability to recharge themselves.
I would hope the oil industry is doing well considering they have us over the barrel (and that’s putting it mildly) with $3 to $4 gas everywhere in the country. But what’s disturbing is that you’re saying the price gouging is justified to keep our “strong oil, ag and aircraft sectors” going.
If the press would do its job and hold accountable those who’ve been taking advantage of the American public we might not be in the mess we’re in.
Ask him to compare the technical difficulty of his plan compared to putting man on the moon with early 60s technology. Note that we succeeded in realizing JFK’s dream.
I think it’s a good plan. Boone is floating it all with his own money, so that is a plus. He’s putting his money where his mouth is.
Now if only state and local governments would do an audit for their employees.
He pretty much hit my point. We HAVE all the technology today to accomplish his plan and more. Thus it is a straight shot. Compare that to the situation when JFK said we would go to the moon. That was a six-ball three-bank combo! I remember that – watching our rockets blow up on the launch pad at Canaveral and this guy says WHAT? To the moon? HE’S CRAZY!!!!! And we did it.
If America commits to energy independence we can do it by 2015. As a scientist myself I know the technology is there – unlike when JFK challenged us. All we have to do is DO IT!
While I think it is highly admirable what Pickens is doing, I would simply prefer nuclear power to wind power. I do not see an adequate ROI on wind power at this time and I have seen the large wind farms in California and found them visually awful.
I would personally like to see a handful of the smaller reactors built in western Ks. I think it would create many jobs and allow the state to sell the excess energy to neighboring states while lowering our energy costs (and taxes overall).
Combined with our vast natural gas fields this would allow Kansas to be a true energy leader.
It might not be cost effective to build new nuclear power plants, because of the enormous cost involved and the taxpayers footing the bill for the waste (half the DOE budget is on monitoring and storing nuke waste.)
Nuke plants won’t work in western Kansas either, because of the water supply issue.
But a great plan would be to expand and update current nuclear sites. Basically all current nuke plants have the capability to expand and to output 2 to 3 times their electric generation capacity. The logistics, site permits and staff are all there.
Cost shifting to employees is effective to the extent that it makes them more mindful of how much money they spend – e.g. thinking twice about going to the ER for something that can probably wait or be handled at an urgent care or doctors office the next day.
The limits are quickly reached though in terms of how much information and “health literacy” the average person has to be able to make good decisions about health care spending.
While shifting costs to the “users” of health care is necessary to get more accountability in the system, lets not forget that this does not directly address the “cost” of health care.
I imagine you’re correct Ict, and expanding current capacity really makes sense.
Do the smaller, compact nuclear facilities use more/less water than current ones? Could we get just one built out west?
I think the compact ones use less water. In afct, I suspect that with some real good engineering they might be able to be designed with no ‘disposable’ water use. Think a car radiator that just transferes the heat to the air.
They can always blame a delay on the grand (re)-opening on poor weather.
Thank you so much… I’m now going to have that song stuck in my head all day.
Imagine how I felt when the commercial reared its ugly head in my head yesterday.
I have been say this for months. Now is the time to start filing charges and naming names. This way everyone who had to pay outrages gasoline prices will know just who is responsible.
Perhaps they fear retaliation?
“Perhaps they fear retaliation?”
Hmm…company hires you to do a job, you choose NOT to do a job to make them give you more money to do that job, and repeat this process every 3-4 years or so…why would the company be upset?
Maybe Congress should use this method when they vote themselves a pay raise — just vote under an assumed name.
With the announcement that it’s “extreme thrill rides only” and kids and families aren’t being marketed to or even welcome, I predict a quick closing next summer. And entertainment dollars will continue to flow up and down the turnpike to destinations that WANT families.
Bring back Joyland…
Retaliation? What, from their own Union Bosses?
It’s typical. Blame management for everything. I understand. If not, then I guess the thugs with the concert shoes and the sledge hammer come out and play.
All the Enron roaches that scattered from the fall of that scam company, miraculously found themselves in the oil futures market.
Good times come and go. The ocean of life.
Maybe it’s just goofballs playing a prank. It was pretty funny! (apologies to Molly of course
)
More likely, they are embarrassed by their own actions so they claim to be someone else.
Podunk, you’re misreading the story. There’s no “only” in extreme thrill rides. Those will be the emphasis, because no park survives without appealing to young adults. However, there will be other rides not dissimilar to the rides Thomas Etheredge put in the original park.
Most likely so they do not get stuck in the ditch of Nationalized health care, where they would be forced to provide care to everybody that seeks it.
Things happen slowly, but they do happen.
It’s going to look really nice once it’s done.
To anyone,
Could the flooding happening in NW Wichita, in areas I’ve never seen flood like this, be a direct result of filling in Cadillac Lake and building a Lowe’s?
Jerry – not that project specifically but our overall policies allowing filling in the floodplain is making things progressively worse. I would note that KDOT’s plan for Kellogg through Goddard will make it even worse.
When the assisted living facility next to Dillons at Central/Maize was built I was the lone dissenter on CPO. My reason: likelihood of flood. In 1998 it was evacuated by boat. I wonder if they have evacuated yet today?
This mess CAN be solved; but not by continuing to make it worse by filling in more floodplain.
I couldn’t agree more. I had seen flooding at the “usual suspects” like Central/Maize and along the Cowskin. I was truly shocked to see the amount of water at 21st/Maize and Ridge Road around Reflection Ridge. With losing Cadillac Lake, the trashing of the Ridge Road area between 29th and 37th St. N. and additional acreage of parking lots it appears the flooding concerns have moved north.
jerry – as long as the developers get everything they want this will only get worse. All this professional licensed geologist can do is watch. And periodically say “I told you so”.
Bill, I appreciate your enthusiasm for debunking all the myths surrounding the surge in gasoline prices we’ve seen over the past several months. But how about an in-depth investigative piece or series on it instead of small posts on an obscure blog? The whole reason the oil prices have spiked is because the players in the game have been allowed to get away with it. Now that we’re on to them, the prices still aren’t coming down near as fast as they went up. If it’s not one excuse, it’s another. Journalists, historically, have been the voice for the voiceless but I’m guessing the deafening silence comes from the fear of losing one’s job in the next round of newsroom downsizing. Why won’t the press stand up to big oil instead of merely reporting the current price of gas? Do reporters in the newsroom – not just The Eagle but all around the country – no longer feel an obligation to their readers to dig for the truth?
Right, because what’s wrong with that? It would be laughable, if it weren’t so true, that many in this country can’t afford to be sick. I’m not suggesting that doctors aren’t worth what they’re paid. But it’s inexcusable that walk-in clinics in Walgreens is this country’s answer to affordable health care.
I think a lot of people go into nursing because they want to help people. In order to do a better job of that they need better conditions – not just more money.
There is also a question of malpractice. If overwork leads to mistakes a nurse might be lieble.
It is my understanding the UVerse carries all local broadcast stations. Cox does not.
Duh! More pay is great, but if a nurse isn’t happy or satisfied with his/her job, they’ll move on if they can. Personally, I took a pay cut for better hours and a better schedule. I have much less stress now, and more control over what I do. I still work occasionally at my old job and enjoy doing “hospital” things again, but after every shift I’m thankful for my new job and the better situation I have.
There were some days at the hospital when I was “earning” $35-40 an hour because of differentials, holidays, etc; but I usually still felt underpaid because of all the stress, long days, physical labor, paperwork, and dealing with difficult doctors, patients, and families.
Health care institutions have spent millions to figure out how to attract and keep happy, competent nurses. The answer doesn’t lie completely in bonuses and monetary incentives. Nurses usually want to feel that what they do is making a positive difference for someone, and that their job has meaning, value, and purpose. Fostering an institutional culture where the nurse has value and respect beyond a warm body with a license is very difficult to do. It’s not something you can just throw money at to accomplish.
Reducing paperwork is great, but extremely difficult to do in today’s legal world. Reducing caseload is very important for happy nurses and happy patients. In the end, it is a combination of things that will make for satisfied nurses and other health care professionals, as well as better health care for patients. If the health care industry can’t make some progress in these areas, they will continue to have problems with staffing.
Not yet, but at least they’re talking to us… which is a lot more than you can say about Cox.
The evildoers want $70,000 a month to put the five stations not on cable on cable… and they don’t charge the others.
Oops, I forgot. The Eagle doesn’t want you to know that.
You’ve lost me, Mr. C.
What are you talking about?
Uverse is only an option if AT&T’s strung fiber-optic cable in your neighborhood. They haven’t in my neighborhood and evidently have no intention to any time in the near future. But they WILL come and bolt a dish to my house and sell me Dish Network programming.
And really…who WANTS to watch KU beat up Sam Houston? The same people who want to watch the basketball team beat The Blessed Little Sisters of the Poor U?
bw – the Eagle carries the TV listings for Cox but not for the broadcast stations. I would guess that many Wichitans don’t even know these stations exist.
And, the TV editors don’t mention anything about (a) their existence or (b) the fact that Cox would charge a prohibitive amount to carry them.
Who cares about these so called broadcast channels??? They are not ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX. They are low power stations, nothing to get excited about. Complain about somthing that matters people.
The guys on the Gameplan will try anything to get some exposure, like trying to bring back Shocker Football.
I’m so ready to kick Cox out and get U-Verse. But as podunkboy has stated, they have yet to provide it in my area and there is no timetable when they will. I hope it’s soon.
Whatever happened to the Wichita City Paper?
Could it be that mr controversy ran it into the ground?
jdl – the low-power broadcast stations carry local information – often more than can be received from the networks.
So, a worker punked a supervisor and used you as a tool. Tough.
If you’re going to hold yourself out as a journalist, don’t whine when you have to make a correction to an article you decided to print without a proper investigation.
Also, if you’re assigned to this story and you don’t already know why the people are on strike, well, then you need to educate yourself.
I don’t know what is reality any more. Where can an individual turn to get a straight answer on this crisis? Every talking head is arguing the same incessant rant on McCain vs. Obama. We are 4 1/2 months from one of them taking office and we will probably be in the Great Depression Part Deux by then.
This is a huge story and the media is on the sidelines watching it go by. Newspapers used to be a “Beacon” for the underrepresented. They went after the TRUTH regardless of political affiliation.
The Democrats, Republicans, Independents, SEC and Federal Reserve need to be ripped to shreds over this fiasco. People need to be held accountable. These “Masters of the Universe” need their corrupt behavior exposed to every person available with the same fervor as Britney Spears entering a mental health clinic. Camp out on their yards. Hassle them at lunch. Stalk them.
Where’s Tiahrt? Roberts? Moran? Brownback?
If the newspaper wants to survive and even flourish it needs to LEAD. Less opinion and more fact. Inform us. Educate us. Arm us.
PLEASE.
First of all I have been a broker for 25 years. There are several things that are at play in the current market. Including some not so savory SEC practices. Until recently you had to borrow stock from someone else at the firm or the firm had to have it in inventory before you could sell short. Selling short is selling stock you don’t own in hopes of buying it back at a lower price and make a profit. The SEC director suspended that rule sometime in the recent past. He also suspended the rule that you could only sell short after an uptick. Which meant you had to wait until the stock was actually going up before you could sell short. This has allowed organizations to pick a company and run it down for no apparent reason. AIG would have been fine if it could have sold some of its held stock to cover their short term cash flow problems. The company was well capitalized with great assets but someone has attacked the company. Other similar attacks are being discovered in the financial sector.
I believe there are billionaires who want Obama to win this election and will do virtually anything to make the markets look as bad as possible so he gets elected. You may ask wouldn’t that be easy to discover? The answer is no because they are using Hedge Funds to do the dirty work. For more information on my theory Google George Soros’ Quantum Fund
Hedge Fund – Definition
A fund, usually used by wealthy individuals and institutions, which is allowed to use aggressive strategies that are unavailable to mutual funds, including selling short, leverage, program trading, swaps, arbitrage, and derivatives. Hedge funds are exempt from many of the rules and regulations governing other mutual funds, which allows them to accomplish aggressive investing goals. They are restricted by law to no more than 100 investors per fund, and as a result most hedge funds set extremely high minimum investment amounts, ranging anywhere from $250,000 to over $1 million. As with traditional mutual funds, investors in hedge funds pay a management fee; however, hedge funds also collect a percentage of the profits (usually 20%).
Any way you slice it there are things going on that should not be. These hedge funds need to have more regulation and watching. Millionairs should have to follow the same rules ther rest of us have to. Other than that. The market fundementals are still reasonably good and eventually this will all go back to balance. I would expect some stabilization after the election but that actually means we have opportunities in the short term.
Good Luck.
My personal experience with Cox is a double-edged sword: Their tech people are terrific. Very helpful.
And frankly, I’ve always found the local office to be pretty responsive.
On the other hand, I was pretty surprised by the curt response to the entrance of UVerse into the Wichita market – and I’m fairly surprised by the lack of response to the KU game Saturday night, neither coming from the Cox faces we’re familiar with in Wichita. Neither is reflective of how the Wichita office has responded to issues in the past.
The fact is: UVerse offers WAY more sports for the money than Cox. If Cox doesn’t address that, then I’m sure UVerse will gain as much market share from sports fanatics as their system will allow.
The Eagle’s coverage of this entire thing has been very one-sided. While this might be understandable given Boeing’s clout in Wichita it would be nice to see a bit more of the other side.
I bet the papers in Alabama have a VERY different take on this.
Sounds like you spoke to Bill Warren.
You also have to consider the cost of training all the Tanker Pilots for the Airbus Tanker, when the training for the Boeing Tanker would have been a lot cheaper and faster.
Another thing was that you would have to rebuild a lot of hangers, because many of them wouldn’t fit the Airbus Tanker.
Then there is replaceable parts, maintenance training, retrofitting all the jets with a another catch and delivery system to accept the Airbus model and on and on.
There is a lot of cost that goes beyond the tankers initial cost and payload capacity that the Pentagon also must look at.
Lynda,
Thank you, that information is quite helpful. As of this morning perhaps the run has bottomed. I certainly hope so.
My greatest concern was this reaching Goldman Sachs and in turn they were allowed to go belly up. They appear to be the last one standing relatively unphased (compared to the big picture). If they did go out of business, I think it may have been some of the darkest days in Wichita’s history. I may be wrong on that but that was my concern.
One of the more interesting articles on what’s happening in the financial industry was written by Don Bauder, of the San Diego Reader:
“One quadrillion. That’s 1,000,000,000,000,000 — one plus 15 zeroes, or one thousand trillion. It is incomprehensible. And that’s what’s terrifying. This summer, the Bank for International Settlements, the bank for the world’s central banks, estimated that the face value of derivatives floating around the world is $1.14 quadrillion. Derivatives are incredibly complex securities whose value is derived from some asset such as a bond, a stock, or a currency. They are used to bet on the weather and upcoming inflation, among many things. But derivatives aren’t really assets; they are crapshoots on the value of the underlying securities — a wager on another wager. They are based almost completely on borrowed money. And all too many are held by the nation’s largest banks and investment banks — yeah, one of those places where you may have parked your money.”
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2008/sep/17/city-light-1/
Rather scary, when you look at it.
thanks to the post – I need further information about this topic for my studies – could you recommend some good resources ?
I’d like to see us diversify based upon the technology we have developed for aerospace. Composites and aerodynamics also apply to wind turbines. With wind energy being a wave of the future why not build the turbines here?
Another area is ground transportation. Lightweight but strong materials can be used to build cars, buses, trucks, trains, etc.
Unfortunately, the majority own “get out of jail free” cards.
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I think it must be the new “RED” card.
I believe Business Links is a fantastic idea, as an avid golfer I can really appreciate a little extra focus on Wichita’s golf scene. Tips from pros are always accepted on my part and I really like keeping up to date with when the next tournement will be. Thanks.
Isnt Rob Allison’s son Tom Allison who bankrupted Allison Data and owes Intrust Bank a couple of hundred thousand bucks?
The latest proposal from our current insurance provider is an increase of almost 15%. This raises the monthly premium on families from roughly $930.00 per month to $1065.00 per month.
If we partake in an employee wellness program our increase is over 17%. That is not a typo.
Correct. Also a rather large mortgage on a house in E-Burg. As I recall, the mortgage is for more than the house is worth.
Just watch – when a small number of banks have established their monopoly they will whine and complain about foreign competition when a foreign bank out-hustles them. Just like a certain aircraft company we all know …
What if these commodities were treated as a public utility? Price increases could only be implemented by a commission after approving an application to increase rates. No more profiteering speculators. No more spikes in prices of fuel oil, gasoline, or diesel for homes, businesses, cars, trucks, buses, planes, and trains.
Boeing Credit Union ATMs charge a $3 (!!!) fee to non-members. I haven’t seen one that high before. And since BoA charges me $2 to use a non-BoA ATM, that’s $5 I’m paying for the privilege of accessing my own money.
Is there a reason that businesses are tacking on all kinds of extra fees rather than increasing the base cost of their products? Why not make the pizza cost $2.50 more? It seems like the nickel-and-dime approach calls more attention to the increased overall cost.
katie, go out to Las Vegas, ATM’s there were charging $4 or more. That was 7 years ago.
Try at an amusement park. $9 ATM fee inside Universal Studios. This was about 10 years ago. And that didn’t include the fee that my bank was going to charge me for using an ATM outside of their network.
Whoa! Sounds like funny numbers to me. For every $5.00 six pack of beer I buy I will get back $1.00 from selling six cans? 12 cans? Still it’s an interesting enough question that I will try it.
The Eagle reported that there was going to be a delivery charge for pizza delivery from several companies. So we knew that. And aren’t you married to Joe Stumpe? Why are you getting pizza from someone else when you have Joe? HA.
I called a local recycling place, and they said you get something like 69 cents a pound for cans. Think they pay more where that was written? Anyway, it still might pay better than putting the money in your mattress.
Some locales have a ‘bottle bill’ that requires a deposit per can or bottle.
Too bad gasoline isn’t falling as fast as the stock market and the economy.
Based on what I have read about her pushing ‘work-outs’ for mortgages at IndyMac I’d say she definitely looks like a ‘keeper’
Wichita’s economic outlook is fine, “As long as there are no shocks to the system.” Who is living in a dream world here. The storm clouds have been gathering for at least a year but no one had the guts to be first to yell: “the wolf is coming, the wolf is coming.”
Boeing might look fine to outsiders but evidently Boeing’s stockholders don’t agree. The price of Boeing stock has cut in half during the past twelve months.
While not directly related to Wichita, another stock I watch is Haliburton Oil company stock, a company heavily involved in Iraq and international oil production. It’s stock has dropped like a rock from about 50 to 21 during the past three months.
It’s only wishful thinking that Wichita’s overall economy, related as it is to the airplane manufacturing industry, is not tied to the national and world economy. It looks like we are in a dribble down economic situation, the domino effect, a house of paper.
Wichita business and citizens need to immediately go into a strong defensive position against the coming recession.
The hard hit industry is going to be ethanol. Just with the recent news with ICM and the largest Pratt, KS ethanol company going completely bankrupt today is a sign that the ethanol boom is over.
While this might not affect Wichita too much, it will affect the small rural towns around Wichita, and those people will be needing jobs. I can see the rural community migrating to Wichita for work, so we will need to prepare for a population boom in our area, for towns like Pratt that could be loosing half their population in the coming years as people leave that community to come to Wichita.
Pratt, the Aspen of Kansas, is doing just fine. Located on the rushing headwaters of the south branch of the Ninnescah River, the beautiful river that that criss-crosses Highway 54 between Kingman and Cunningham.
Most of Pratt’s downtown buildings are occuppied. Pratt has both a large Wal-Mart store and large Dillons Grocery store. Pratt has a thriving industrial site at the old U.S. Army Air Force B-29 base only about three miles north of town.
Pratt currently has very few houses for sale due to influx of new residents from Greensburg and Wichita.
The economy of Pratt is dive